Big Nickel

[BillsFan1988]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Been thinking today, McD could really use a toy for a big nickel hybrid kinda guy. Last year it was Chinn and Dugger. Anybody like that coming out this year? I feel like it was this time last year that the Dugger name was starting to pop up around our team. Anybody got anything?

I loved Chinn during the draft process I was hoping we would take him or Dobbins in the 2nd hopefully Aj can develop this yr and make me forget and these other 2 players.

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Taron johnson 

 

And that's why it's a sub package because it's never going to see the field more than 20% of the snaps 

 

With nickel basically being our base, and johnson being so valuable

yeah, Taron Johnson is good for nickel. Our version in the last for big nickel has been Siran Neal or Dean Marlowe.  We could use another option though.

 

Thanks Shredder as we should be able to get one mid to late in the draft.  Just wouldn’t want to invest a high pick that on,y plays maybe 20% of the time.

Edited April 8, 2021 by machine gun kelly

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Dane jackson and cam lewis possible understudies on roster

 

Yea I thought of Dane as a guy with inside / outside flex when they picked him but my understanding is they exclusively prepped him to play outside last year. Now maybe that was not loading too much onto a 7th round rookie 7th rounder with limited offseason time and they will expand his responsibilities this year but I was a little surprised they didn't have a look at him inside. Cam might be a placeholder but I would think they will look for another rookie contract 4 year answer on day 3 of this draft or the next one.

54 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

This from TBN in March. 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/florida-state-dbs-show-skills-for-bills-nfl-scouts-at-pro-day/article_0e9e651c-8b4f-11eb-9514-e7f8cc99065f.html#:~:text=However%2C Nasirildeen did not run the 40 due,had vertical jumps of more than 40 inches.

 

Hamdan Nasirildeen FSU.  Hybrid S/LB. 

 

 

 

I love his size. I was a little disappointed with his tape though. He looked like a big athletic guy who didn't really know how to play football to me. Interested to hear anyone else's views on him because I know some decent evaluators who are high on him. Maybe I watched the wrong games but I was lukewarm at best.

[Thurman#1]

It'll depend who takes him and how each team sees big nickel, but Owusu-Koramoah might end up being used as a big nickel by whoever picks him, from what I understand.

 

Ideally a big nickel doesn't have only one way they use him. It's precisely that multiplicity that makes that kind of guy valuable.

 

It's not necessary to take a big nickel out on 80% of the plays as some seem to think. Kyle Dugger saw 51% of New England's snaps last year, and that's after not being in much early in the year.

 

"The growing trend is to use the “big nickel,” or a third safety, as part of the base defense."

 

"They started to use a “big nickel” defense with three safeties; the third acts as a hybrid linebacker/cornerback. With the right type of athlete, the big nickel can cover tight ends, receivers, and help in the run game. These players are being referred to as hybrid corner-linebackers, swiss army knives, big nickels, etc. The idea is to try to gain back the advantage over offenses. With more versatile defenders, defenses can mix up looks for the quarterback as the role of players is not so easily dissected by the quarterback before the snap."

 

https://www.draftblaster.com/big-nickel-super-safeties-defending-12-personnel/

Edited April 8, 2021 by Thurman#1

[atlbillsfan1975]

17 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

It'll depend who takes him and how each team sees big nickel, but Owusu-Koramoah might end up being used as a big nickel by whoever picks him, from what I understand.

 

Ideally a big nickel doesn't have only one way they use him. It's precisely that multiplicity that makes that kind of guy valuable.

 

It's not necessary to take a big nickel out on 80% of the plays as some seem to think. Kyle Dugger saw 51% of New England's snaps last year, and that's after not being in much early in the year.

100% right. I get caught up In traditional ways of thinking when In fact the Bills run more “sub” packages than their base. Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah is a guy who can stay on the field. Covers and can come up in the box. Not saying he is the pick at 30, but would not be surprised if they take someone within the first two rounds who fits that profile. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

It'll depend who takes him and how each team sees big nickel, but Owusu-Koramoah might end up being used as a big nickel by whoever picks him, from what I understand.

 

Ideally a big nickel doesn't have only one way they use him. It's precisely that multiplicity that makes that kind of guy valuable.

 

It's not necessary to take a big nickel out on 80% of the plays as some seem to think. Kyle Dugger saw 51% of New England's snaps last year, and that's after not being in much early in the year.

 

"The growing trend is to use the “big nickel,” or a third safety, as part of the base defense."

 

"They started to use a “big nickel” defense with three safeties; the third acts as a hybrid linebacker/cornerback. With the right type of athlete, the big nickel can cover tight ends, receivers, and help in the run game. These players are being referred to as hybrid corner-linebackers, swiss army knives, big nickels, etc. The idea is to try to gain back the advantage over offenses. With more versatile defenders, defenses can mix up looks for the quarterback as the role of players is not so easily dissected by the quarterback before the snap."

 

https://www.draftblaster.com/big-nickel-super-safeties-defending-12-personnel/

 

Yea the term "big nickel" doesn't have a single definition. To some simply replacing your slot corner with a safety playing the slot is "big nickel" ie. you brought in a bigger defender to play the slot either up against a tight end or because you fear the run. To others it only applies to guys who are used as those true hybrid linebacker / nickel corner type. Depending on where the guy you are talking about fits on that scale of "big nickel" definition is likely to affect his volume of snaps. The Bills used Rafael Bush as a 5th DB some in his one year here rather than a nickel cornerback but I wouldn't really describe him as a "big nickel" he was just a bigger body - a safety - playing as a slot corner. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Tommy Callahan]

 Jamien Sherwood would fit the bill.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Rumor was they wanted Duggers bad last year, I imagine the big nickel will be primarily a super athletic 220 pound LB 

[DJB]

I'll continue to bang the drum this offseason that big nickle is a priority position that the Bills are targeting.

 

We got wrecked by TE's last year. 

[machine gun kelly]

4 minutes ago, DJB said:

I'll continue to bang the drum this offseason that big nickle is a priority position that the Bills are targeting.

 

We got wrecked by TE's last year. 

Part of that reason is lb’s not being able to hold up for four to five seconds.  In this case it’s a better front four pass rush plus the option of the more effective big nickel that will solve that problem. 

[The Jokeman]

7 hours ago, BruceVilanch said:

 Found it. It's Canadian though.

Come on man this is Buffalo, we need a wooden nickel. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think our big nickel is a guy who won’t come off the field, can’t help but wonder if Rookie and Milano would be the LBs in those situations. Maybe they have Edmunds blitz off the edge with 3 linemen? Can’t see them taking Edmunds off the field completely or Taron Johnson

[DJB]

50 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Part of that reason is lb’s not being able to hold up for four to five seconds.  In this case it’s a better front four pass rush plus the option of the more effective big nickel that will solve that problem. 

 

Absolutely about a pass rush. It changes everything so much if you have one. Unfortunately it appears we won't be improving in that area this year. 

[Rochesterfan]

Just watching when the Bills defense was at its most effective both late last year and in 2018/2019 - the 5th DB needs to be able to cover a TE and still get off blocks to make plays out wide on RBs.  Hybrid with size and speed.

 

The Bills were most effective with Milano and Edmunds both over the “A” gaps on either side of the center.  2 DTs (Oliver and probably Obada this year) on the outside shoulder of the guards, and Hughes and Addison at DE.  Essentially 6 guys across the line of scrimmage and you bring 5.  The 5 remaining DBs need to cover lots of space with WRs and TEs and pick up flaring RBs.  They were really good at TEs in 2018 + 2019, but struggled against RBs in screen situations.  Last year they were better against the RBs, but the TEs ate them alive.  
 

I would love to see that hybrid speed player to fill out the defense and this year with the decrease in talent at TE we will see - the numbers should look better just based on schedule, but that is a critical role that we seem to be missing- especially with Marlowe a FA.

[BeastMode54]

Jeremiah Owesu-Koremora and Hamsah Nasirildeen

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Part of that reason is lb’s not being able to hold up for four to five seconds.  In this case it’s a better front four pass rush plus the option of the more effective big nickel that will solve that problem. 

I agree that the Bills pass rush needs improvement, but DBs can’t cover for 4-5 seconds either.  No one can with any consistency.  TEs were still a particular issue last season and it should be addressed.  Maybe a healthy Milano is what we need, but that’s still thin.  There will be dings and two TE sets.  Even with an improved PR (if we get that) helping everyone I still want a big nickel that can cover TEs.  It would sure be a boost to the defense IMO.  

[Mcdermott]

Teams are experimenting more with a dime package using 3 safeties and 3 corners. Traditional 4-3-4 and 3-4-4 are becoming the minority rather then the majority usage.

[machine gun kelly]

11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree that the Bills pass rush needs improvement, but DBs can’t cover for 4-5 seconds either.  No one can with any consistency.  TEs were still a particular issue last season and it should be addressed.  Maybe a healthy Milano is what we need, but that’s still thin.  There will be dings and two TE sets.  Even with an improved PR (if we get that) helping everyone I still want a big nickel that can cover TEs.  It would sure be a boost to the defense IMO.  

 I argument barley.  That’s why I’m hopeful we can find a way to do both. It’s plausible to find with a 1st someone to upgrade pass rush if we bundle, and there are big nickel type safeties mid round.  We’re not getting some big time TE in this draft so we have speed with Breida in the running game.  These things discussed are the best options to make us better.

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, BeastMode54 said:

Jeremiah Owesu-Koremora and Hamsah Nasirildeen

 

What do you like about Nasirildeen? Genuine question.... I know a lot of people like him, I was a bit underwhelmed.... keen to understand what others are seeing. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I mean it's never bad to upgrade your team. But it will never replace traditional Nickel in McDermott's defense which is taking 60% of the snaps

 

My sentiments exactly.   

 

And for the second year in a row the league is receiving a huge class of quality WR's.

 

Everyone wishes they had a great TE and it's frustrating when you play a team with one and they have a big game........but there aren't THAT many of them.

 

Meanwhile, practically every team is about to have a WR3 that would have been a WR2 quality player just a few years ago.    

 

Nice to have a guy who can match up more with TE's and help in run support..........but statistically it's going to be much more important to be able to cover the WR's.