Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Jerome007 said: Yep. My doctor won't get vaccinated - she told me without me even asking. My GF's mother is a medical technician and she won't either. Many doctors and scientists have different views, but those diverging from the official line dare not speak of publicly. And it's clear as day the media only have the more "prudent" ones on cue. *blink* *blink* For the past year, my own eyes have beheld, and not as a stranger - the contrary I will not broaden with examples here 1
SDS Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 1 minute ago, BuffAlone said: there's a pinned topic on politics/ covid. Wtf would a mod continue this talk on here for? disgusting. Whooped There is. Toning disgusting about it. As stated, if you read the posts, we would like the discussion to be tightly focused on the intersection of the NFL and the issue at hand. If it gets out of control it will be closed. If people talk about the situation rationally then it can continue. 1
Billzgobowlin Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 So basically more people drive their cars, the more accidents that happen, just like the more people in public the more that get sick. I'm not going to live in a bubble all my life even if they could guarantee a connection between the two
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 12 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said: Can confirm lancet should not be taken very seriously That would be a contrary view to most in the profession of medicine and science. It would typically be listed in the top 5 or 10 along with NE Journal of Medicine, Nature, Journal of the American Medical Association, British Medical Journal, and Annals of Internal Medicine. 1 1 1 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 18 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said: So basically more people drive their cars, the more accidents that happen, just like the more people in public the more that get sick. I'm not going to live in a bubble all my life even if they could guarantee a connection between the two I'm not sure that's a great analogy. There are specific behaviors that are pretty well established to make driving your car more risky - driving while under the influence, driving while excessively fatigued, excessive speed for the road conditions, and so forth. You can do a lot of driving outside a bubble without getting into the riskier behaviors. For an airborne contagious disease, there are pretty well-established risk factors. Indoors > Outdoors, duration of event, size of gathering with larger > smaller. You can do a lot of living outside a bubble without getting into the riskier aspects in the face of an airborne contagious disease, just as you can do a lot of driving. I think it's an interesting study that they could identify a spike in the communities. Conclusive, no. The authors acknowledge a valid point that they can't tell it was the game per se or behaviors around the game (gathering pre-game for food and drinks etc). If good enough quality contact tracing were available, I think it would be interesting to compare infection rates in Buffalo in the people who attended large outdoor "watch events" that were set up by various restaurant districts vs. the people who went to the game, and were required to be tested beforehand and masked. My guess would be that the pre-game testing made a big difference to safety, but I don't know. The dog thing intrigues me - that dogs can be trained to detect covid-19. It would be pretty cool if people could be screened on entry by something super-quick like dogs and those "flagged" given a backup rapid test. I'd like to hope it will all be a moot point by September because enough people will be vaccinated to cut transmission rates way down, but who knows? 2 2
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted April 8, 2021 Author Posted April 8, 2021 5 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said: 90% of statistics are completely made up. That's just funny right there.
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 7 hours ago, Doc Brown said: "The study does not prove a causal link between fan attendance and Covid-19 cases, but suggests that there may be a relationship between the two." Solid science there. There's numerous other factors that could've lead to a spike in cases. id argue that giving an accurate conclusion that it didn’t establish causation but suggests there may be a relation is actually solid science. It didn’t oversell conclusions 6 1
offyourocker Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 New York Times is not something i would reference 3
RiotAct Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, NoSaint said: id argue that giving an accurate conclusion that it didn’t establish causation but suggests there may be a relation is actually solid science. It didn’t oversell conclusions it’s an interesting study, but hopefully the eager-beavers that run the show don’t have it in the back of their mind when deciding whether to ease public-gathering restrictions here (or anywhere, for that matter).
Governor Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 1 hour ago, SCBills said: Thank goodness I live in the south. I’ll just go the Bills/Dolphins and Bills/Jags games while not concerning myself with ever trying to get to NY for a game. People that are vaccinated and going to games won’t care what you do at that point. 1
Malazan Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) the amount of people on here that misunderstand science is.. frankly, impressive. 19 minutes ago, offyourocker said: New York Times is not something i would reference Could you enlighten on us how the NYT was involved in the study? Edited April 8, 2021 by jeremy2020 2 1 1
Governor Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 Grandpa, tell me about the Bills SB season! Did you go to the games? No, son. Why not????? I wouldn’t get a vaccine. Why grandpa????? 1 1
BuffAlone Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 1 hour ago, SDS said: There is. Toning disgusting about it. As stated, if you read the posts, we would like the discussion to be tightly focused on the intersection of the NFL and the issue at hand. If it gets out of control it will be closed. If people talk about the situation rationally then it can continue. anything covid related is not allowed here.You said so yourself. why allow a "mod" who has an avatar of a vaccine bottle, to suggest anything to anyone? Unrelated to the Bills btw. Is this rational? 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: anything covid related is not allowed here.You said so yourself. why allow a "mod" who has an avatar of a vaccine bottle, to suggest anything to anyone? Unrelated to the Bills btw. Is this rational? General football discussion is allowed here. It's a study of NFL game attendance. You're welcome.
SDS Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: anything covid related is not allowed here.You said so yourself. why allow a "mod" who has an avatar of a vaccine bottle, to suggest anything to anyone? Unrelated to the Bills btw. Is this rational? Maybe you could find someone to discuss whether a hotdog is a sandwich or not? 1
CincyBillsFan Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 4 hours ago, appoo said: I think what the Rangers are allowing is batcrap crazy and wildly irresponsible. The vaccine hasn't remotely gotten enough chance to get to enough people. This is all about risk to the community. Without accesible vaccine, big gathering are a huge, unneccesary, risk. With vaccine coverage, the risk to the community is mostly gone. If I'm vaccinated, and my family and loved ones are vaccinated. What do I care if you are or aren't vaccinated? Then it really is down to personal choice. You're not a risk to me and mine whether or not you have COVID. In Sept/October, I would hope all sports in the US have full crowds. The purpose of the vaccine is to protect individuals and push a community into herd immunity. What folks forget is that those who have been previously infected with covid achieve a similar outcome to being vaccinated. Herd immunity is a COMBINATION of the vaccinated and naturally infected people. Most virologists believe that 65% to 75% of the population needs to be either vaccinated or naturally infected to reach herd immunity. There have been over 31,000,000 Americans confirmed to have been infected by covid. The CDC believes that you can multiply this number by 3 - 6 times to get the actual number of people infected. Using the smaller number and you have almost 100,000,000 Americans with some level of immunity. Combine the 100 million with how many people will be vaccinated by August and there is no reason not to have full stadiums in the fall. 2 1
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: General football discussion is allowed here. It's a study of NFL game attendance. You're welcome. also the ever true reality that we are guests in SDS’s house and were never guaranteed any semblance of perfect consistency - so no need to argue with your take here. its a pretty reasonable bend, if a bend at all, and no ones forcing anyone into the thread. not to get too far off the topic but I think it’s a good occasional reminder to let some of the entitlement go and just enjoy this for what it is and sidestep what you don’t like. 1 1
LeGOATski Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 More people get together = more cases of illness. Seems like common sense that no one would question normally.... Many other studies of airborne sicknesses have been done over the last 200 years.... I hope all stadiums allow vaccinated fans back in 2021. It just makes sense and everyone will have a great time. 1 1
Solomon Grundy Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Billzgobowlin said: So basically more people drive their cars, the more accidents that happen, just like the more people in public the more that get sick. I'm not going to live in a bubble all my life even if they could guarantee a connection between the two 50 minutes ago, The Governor said: Grandpa, tell me about the Bills SB season! Did you go to the games? No, son. Why not????? I wouldn’t get a vaccine. Why grandpa????? Buffalo....the city of GOOD neighbors 😉
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 8, 2021 Posted April 8, 2021 23 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: The purpose of the vaccine is to protect individuals and push a community into herd immunity. What folks forget is that those who have been previously infected with covid achieve a similar outcome to being vaccinated. Herd immunity is a COMBINATION of the vaccinated and naturally infected people. Most virologists believe that 65% to 75% of the population needs to be either vaccinated or naturally infected to reach herd immunity. There have been over 31,000,000 Americans confirmed to have been infected by covid. The CDC believes that you can multiply this number by 3 - 6 times to get the actual number of people infected. Using the smaller number and you have almost 100,000,000 Americans with some level of immunity. Combine the 100 million with how many people will be vaccinated by August and there is no reason not to have full stadiums in the fall. Good job keeping the focus towards the topic of football stadiums. There are a couple tech. issues with this generally correct assessment - 1) there's a lot of overlap between vaccinated people, and people who have previous covid infection (infected people are still recommended to be vaccinated - so can't just add the two numbers.) 2) this is still under investigation, but it's known that the Sars-Cov2 virus actively evades the immune response (it's a survival tool for many viruses, this one just seems better than many at FSU). So there's an emerging believe that vaccinated immunity, which bypasses the immune suppression and evasion mechanisms of a natural infection, may actually produce stronger immunity. 3) the estimate of 75% of the population to achieve herd immunity was based upon the R0 of the original dominant Sars-Cov2 strain. The more infectious variants may require a higher level. My point is that public health departments and epidemiologists may do the math a little bit differently than you are, and if the vaccination rate lags down at 60% or so, they may be running models and saying "ah yeah, I see reasons not to allow the stadia here to fill up to capacity" Hopefully it will be a moot point.
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