Georgia election laws and MLB

[oldmanfan]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You really are a racist if you think black people are too dumb or incompetent to get an ID. As I stated MULTIPLE times to you the 2020 election has been decided but you still continue lying about me. There is nothing in the bill that allows someone to throw out a legally cast ballot, that is a lie. Lastly why did they wait till after the election? Do you realize how many emergency provisions were added in during 2020 to help with the vote? There was gonna be changes. I though do hope you boycott us in FL because we require similar things to vote, though our minorities are capable of figuring it out 

I’m sorry but you are absolutely wrong about being able to throw out legally cast ballots.  The state legislature in Georgia can take over control of elections from counties if they feel there is something questionable in that county.  They have taken away responsibility of elections from the Secretary of State.  Ask yourself why.  You can’t be that naive.

 

[Wacka]

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

49 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

To answer your question in the last paragraph, yes.

The data set is in the number of audits performed by the states, none of which found fraud.  In the review by the DOJ, which did not find fraud.  In the over 60 court cases brought which did not find fraud.  For the Georgia law specifically, three separate audits were conducted of I believe Gwinnett county and all of the found no fraud.

 

If you want to claim fraud, you have the burden of proof.  There was no evidence of such.  Where is the data to show fraud?

I am not arguing fraud and the election.  As I said yesterday, whatever my personal thoughts are on shenanigans, Biden is president.  For whatever it’s worth, I’d think the notion of ‘fraud’ was never, ever going to be decided in the 60 days +/- after the election.  If fraud, malfeasance or problems with election security is afoot—as suggested by both parties over the 5 years—a thorough forensic review of problem areas would be required to uncover irregularities.   Hell, it took 60 days to crack the Jussie Smollette case.   Some posters here are ready to tar and feather a congressman based on anonymous sources and the feds are apparently only on month six of an investigation. 
 

This is about the Georgia voting issue. 
 

My question is where is the data set that ties Georgia law to Trump lies and voter suppression?  That’s your contention.  There must be documentation, not just feelings, yes?  In one post you mentioned the targeting of black voters, but given the nature of a class of folks being designated a “minority”, wouldn’t that affect non-minorities as well?  
 

I’m just looking for the smoking gun, like you did with COVID spread, virus hovering over social causes and Trump.  Don’t tell me about the pregnancy, show me the baby! 

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

This does not pass my definition.  And please point out to me where in this Bill it reduces the number of drop boxes.  I'll wait......

 

Again has NOBODY read this thing??

 

 

IMAGES

Will there be fewer drop boxes?

Drop boxes allow voters to submit their ballots early into locked containers, rather than relying on sending them in via post or standing in long lines on election day.

Democrats say the new law reduces the number of these boxes, making it harder to vote.

There will be fewer in forthcoming elections, but this needs to be put in context.

Prior to the 2020 election, drop boxes weren't used in Georgia. They were brought in as part of emergency Covid action. 

The new law does significantly reduce the number of drop boxes from the 2020 level.

For example, Fulton County says it will go down from 38 to eight drop boxes.

 

As for your definition of racism, who gives a damn what your definition is?

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I’m sorry but you are absolutely wrong about being able to throw out legally cast ballots.  The state legislature in Georgia can take over control of elections from counties if they feel there is something questionable in that county.  They have taken away responsibility of elections from the Secretary of State.  Ask yourself why.  You can’t be that naive.

 

 

They could also set them on fire, super glue them shut or cut them up into tiny pieces too.  You can't be that cynical.  

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I am not arguing fraud and the election.  As I said yesterday, whatever my personal thoughts are on shenanigans, Biden is president.  For whatever it’s worth, I’d think the notion of ‘fraud’ was never, ever going to be decided in the 60 days +/- after the election.  If fraud, malfeasance or problems with election security is afoot—as suggested by both parties over the 5 years—a thorough forensic review of problem areas would be required to uncover irregularities.   Hell, it took 60 days to crack the Jussie Smollette case.   Some posters here are ready to tar and feather a congressman based on anonymous sources and the feds are apparently only on month six of an investigation. 
 

This is about the Georgia voting issue. 
 

My question is where is the data set that ties Georgia law to Trump lies and voter suppression?  That’s your contention.  There must be documentation, not just feelings, yes?  In one post you mentioned the targeting of black voters, but given the nature of a class of folks being designated a “minority”, wouldn’t that affect non-minorities as well?  
 

I’m just looking for the smoking gun, like you did with COVID spread, virus hovering over social causes and Trump.  Don’t tell me about the pregnancy, show me the baby! 

The Georgia vote was audited multiple times and no fraud issues were found.  None.  That is the data.  Same C with the Senate race where both Republicans lost.  What did the Republican governor and legislature do?  Initiated the laws that we have now discussed ad nauseum.

 

You are familiar with the concept of stimulus-response?  Here you go.

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

They could also set them on fire, super glue them shut or cut them up into tiny pieces too.  You can't be that cynical.  

You can’t be that naive.

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

IMAGES

Will there be fewer drop boxes?

Drop boxes allow voters to submit their ballots early into locked containers, rather than relying on sending them in via post or standing in long lines on election day.

Democrats say the new law reduces the number of these boxes, making it harder to vote.

There will be fewer in forthcoming elections, but this needs to be put in context.

Prior to the 2020 election, drop boxes weren't used in Georgia. They were brought in as part of emergency Covid action. 

The new law does significantly reduce the number of drop boxes from the 2020 level.

For example, Fulton County says it will go down from 38 to eight drop boxes.

 

As for your definition of racism, who gives a damn what your definition is?

 

People say a lot of things.  Please point out where in the Bill it specifically calls for fewer drop boxes.  It actually does the opposite.  

 

How about Vanderbilt University definitions:

 

Racism “The systemic subordination of members of targeted racial groups who have relatively little social power in the United States (Blacks, Latino/as, Native Americans, and Asians), by the members of the agent racial group who have relatively more social power (Whites). This subordination is supported by the actions of individuals, cultural norms and values, and the institutional structures and practices of society.”

 

 

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 

You can’t be that naive.

 

If what you say actually happens you can come back and say AH HA!!   I told you.  In the meantime it's all hypothetical.  What-if's don't work here.  

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

People say a lot of things.  Please point out where in the Bill it specifically calls for fewer drop boxes.  It actually does the opposite.  

 

How about Vanderbilt University definitions:

 

Racism “The systemic subordination of members of targeted racial groups who have relatively little social power in the United States (Blacks, Latino/as, Native Americans, and Asians), by the members of the agent racial group who have relatively more social power (Whites). This subordination is supported by the actions of individuals, cultural norms and values, and the institutional structures and practices of society.”

 

 

 

If what you say actually happens you can come back and say AH HA!!   I told you.  In the meantime it's all hypothetical.  What-if's don't work here.  

Section 26, sub part c.1.  Talks about drop boxes.  Go read it.  This will significantly decrease the number in Fulton county as an example. 
 

And yes, because there has been no election in the 3 months since the Georgia run off, it is all hypothetical.  Duh.  

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Section 26, sub part c.1.  Talks about drop boxes.  Go read it.  This will significantly decrease the number in Fulton county as an example. 
 

And yes, because there has been no election in the 3 months since the Georgia run off, it is all hypothetical.  Duh.  

 

I can't find the section you're talking about. Please quote it here.

 

Could there also be a hypothetical that this Bill may make is easier for black people to vote?  

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I can't find the section you're talking about. Please quote it here.

 

Could there also be a hypothetical that this Bill may make is easier for black people to vote?  

No, sorry.  You keep talking about reading the bill, then read it.  I just did.

 

I suspect more blacks will vote, because they will be so pissed that Stacy Abrams and her allies will make sure they get folks to the polls as they did this past year.  But that doesn’t matter.  What matters is that the legislators of one party reacted to their losses by deliberately coming up with a law to potentially disenfranchise those of the opposition.  I would feel the same if the parties were the opposite.  My horse in this race is to ensure that the franchise is protected.

[BillStime]

33 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I’m sorry but you are absolutely wrong about being able to throw out legally cast ballots.  The state legislature in Georgia can take over control of elections from counties if they feel there is something questionable in that county.  They have taken away responsibility of elections from the Secretary of State.  Ask yourself why.  You can’t be that naive.

 

Jim won’t acknowledge the obvious power grab and how easy it will be to flip elections... the legislature’s hand picked committee will bar local county election officials and find those 11,000 votes in a heartbeat.

 

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I can't find the section you're talking about. Please quote it here.

 

Could there also be a hypothetical that this Bill may make is easier for black people to vote?  

 

Can’t we just make voting easier for all instead of coming up with new hoops to jump through with this pathetic law in Georgia?  
 

Republicans are doing a wonderful job making the case for universal voting rights.

 

The only reason this law exists is to curb voting; not expand. Because when Democrats show up - Republicans lose.

 

And that’s why you don’t see any voting sites reopened in predominant black areas. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

30 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The Georgia vote was audited multiple times and no fraud issues were found.  None.  That is the data.  Same C with the Senate race where both Republicans lost.  What did the Republican governor and legislature do?  Initiated the laws that we have now discussed ad nauseum.

 

You are familiar with the concept of stimulus-response?  Here you go.

You can’t be that naive.

There is a trend here.  
 

 I’ll just take it on faith you don’t rely on hard, factual data when it doesn’t suit your position.  It’s like that old expression, leap before you look. 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

No, sorry.  You keep talking about reading the bill, then read it.  I just did.

 

I suspect more blacks will vote, because they will be so pissed that Stacy Abrams and her allies will make sure they get folks to the polls as they did this past year.  But that doesn’t matter.  What matters is that the legislators of one party reacted to their losses by deliberately coming up with a law to potentially disenfranchise those of the opposition.  I would feel the same if the parties were the opposite.  My horse in this race is to ensure that the franchise is protected.

 

You just read the whole Bill?  No seriously quote the Bill where is says they will reduce the number of drop boxes.  Are you sure you're reading the Bill?  All 98 pages?  Just now?  Please make your case.   Prove me wrong and I will admit you are right.  

 

Potentially disenfranchise the opposition does NOT make it racist and you know that. 

 

 

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

No, sorry.  You keep talking about reading the bill, then read it.  I just did.

 

I suspect more blacks will vote, because they will be so pissed that Stacy Abrams and her allies will make sure they get folks to the polls as they did this past year.  But that doesn’t matter.  What matters is that the legislators of one party reacted to their losses by deliberately coming up with a law to potentially disenfranchise those of the opposition.  I would feel the same if the parties were the opposite.  My horse in this race is to ensure that the franchise is protected.

Blacks will indeed show up - they have already proven that this past year - but I guarantee you the legislatures specially appointed election board will find SOME reason to override those county election boards and deem just enough votes invalid.

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

There is a trend here.  
 

 I’ll just take it on faith you don’t rely on hard, factual data when it doesn’t suit your position.  It’s like that old expression, leap before you look. 

 

 

Excuse me.  The audits showing no fraud are hard data.  You can’t seriously claim that audits are somehow soft data.

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

You just read the whole Bill?  No seriously quote the Bill where is says they will reduce the number of drop boxes.  Are you sure you're reading the Bill?  All 98 pages?  Just now?  Please make your case.   Prove me wrong and I will admit you are right.  

 

Potentially disenfranchise the opposition does NOT make it racist and you know that. 

 

 

I quoted you the section.  Read it.  You’re the one crowing about reading the bill.  Apparently you haven’t.

Edited April 11, 2021 by oldmanfan

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

There is a trend here.  
 

 I’ll just take it on faith you don’t rely on hard, factual data when it doesn’t suit your position.  It’s like that old expression, leap before you look. 

 

 

Data? LMAO? Coming from the parry that ignored science and data and cheered about it as they controlled the narrative on COVID?

 

The same party in Georgia who passed a racist voting law based on their (hurt) FEELINGS and not data?

 

Get outta here man 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Jim won’t acknowledge the obvious power grab and how easy it will be to flip elections... the legislature’s hand picked committee will bar local county election officials and find those 11,000 votes in a heartbeat.

 

 

Can’t we just make voting easier for all instead of coming up with new hoops to jump through with this pathetic law in Georgia?  
 

Republicans are doing a wonderful job making the case for universal voting rights.

 

The only reason this law exists is to curb voting; not expand. Because when Democrats show up - Republicans lose.

 

And that’s why you don’t see any voting sites reopened in predominant black areas. 

 

How does a power grab make it racist?

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

There is a trend here.  
 

 I’ll just take it on faith you don’t rely on hard, factual data when it doesn’t suit your position.  It’s like that old expression, leap before you look. 

 

 

ATLANTA)-Today, Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger announced the results of the Risk Limiting Audit of Georgia’s presidential contest, which upheld and reaffirmed the original outcome produced by the machine tally of votes cast. Due to the tight margin of the race and the principles of risk-limiting audits, this audit was a full manual tally of all votes cast. The audit confirmed that the original machine count accurately portrayed the winner of the election. The results of the audit can be viewed HERE , HERE , and HERE .

“Georgia’s historic first statewide audit reaffirmed that the state’s new secure paper ballot voting system accurately counted and reported results,” said Secretary Raffensperger. “This is a credit to the hard work of our county and local elections officials who moved quickly to undertake and complete such a momentous task in a short period of time.”

“Georgia’s first statewide audit successfully confirmed the winner of the chosen contest and should give voters increased confidence in the results,” said Ben Adida, Executive Director of VotingWorks. “We were proud to work with Georgia on this historic audit. The difference between the reported results and the full manual tally is well within the expected error rate of hand-counting ballots, and the audit was a success.” 

By law, Georgia was required to conduct a Risk Limiting Audit of a statewide race following the November elections. Understanding the importance of clear and reliable results for such an important contest, Secretary Raffensperger selected the presidential race in Georgia for the audit. Meeting the confidence threshold required by law for the audit meant conducting a full manual tally of every ballot cast in Georgia.

The Risk Limiting Audit reaffirmed the outcome of the presidential race in Georgia as originally reported, with Joe Biden leading President Donald Trump in the state. 

The audit process also led to counties catching making mistakes they made in their original count by not uploading all memory cards. Those counties uploaded the memory cards and re-certified their results, leading to increased accuracy in the results the state will certify.

The differential of the audit results from the original machine counted results is well within the expected margin of human error that occurs when hand-counting ballots. A 2012 study  by Rice University and Clemson University found that “hand counting of votes in postelection audit or recount procedures can result in error rates of up to 2 percent.” In Georgia’s recount, the highest error rate in any county recount was .73%. Most counties found no change in their finally tally. The majority of the remaining counties had changes of fewer than ten ballots.

Because the margin is still less than 0.5%, the President can request a recount after certification of the results. That recount will be conducted by rescanning all paper ballots.

Dies this match your definition of data?  If not, speaking as a scientist you don’t understand what data means.

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Excuse me.  The audits showing no fraud are hard data.  You can’t seriously claim that audits are somehow soft data.

I quoted you the section.  Read it.  You’re the one crowing about reading the bill.  Apparently you haven’t.

 

Here is the Bill I'm quoting.  I contains no such wording reducing the number of drop boxes.  It mentions drop boxes 28 times but none that say it reduces their numbers.  So please quote the wording in the Bill YOU'RE looking at that says it reduces the number of drop boxes.

 

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Here is the Bill I'm quoting.  I contains no such wording reducing the number of drop boxes.  It mentions drop boxes 28 times but none that say it reduces their numbers.  So please quote the wording in the Bill YOU'RE looking at that says it reduces the number of drop boxes.

 

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

I went to the actual bill listed by the state of Georgia.  You went to a Fox News site.  How surprising.  You have gone I. And in about actually reading the bill and it turns out you rely on Fox News.  Hysterical.

 

legis.ga.gov.  Start there. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by oldmanfan