Derek Chauvin Trial

[BillStime]

39 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

Couple ideas you dont understand. Sports has a long history of political uses. Protests aren’t supposed to be easy for you to ignore. NFL players did nothing wrong and disobeyed nothing on their employer agreement protesting. I’m sorry that you wanted to sit down and watch a game without hearing about black people being murdered by cops but the protest is to get people like you to have to acknowledge it.

 

For example, if there’s a protest of a WalMart and makes the protest makes it hard for you to go buy whatever you buy there, then the protest is inconvenient but it brings light to the protestors actions to groups that may not know about the issues.

 

Second, the military. You do know This originally started with sitting for the anthem. Kaep was told that could be disrespectful to the military so he worked with a US veteran on the best way to protest?

 

 https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651/the-veteran-and-nfl-player-who-advised-kaepernick-to-take-a-knee

 

Not just any veteran, but a retired Green Beret.

 

”

And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.

And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.”

 

But again we’re still back to the right doesn’t have an acceptable form of protest for minority communities.

 

I asked the question previously and not a single person here answered even though everyone and their sister seems to watch quote my posts.

 

What would be an acceptable way for the black community to protest?

 

The call a riot the language of the unheard. With the right constantly telling the black community don’t protest that way, don’t protest like that, shut up and dribble, there is a reason why that community feels unheard.

It’s funny how no one seemed to mind Tim Tebow kneeling for religious purposes during sports but as soon as the black guy took a knee to protest police violence the racists went nuts.

 

Why does everyone have to play by THEIR rules?

 

We don’t. 
 

 

[BillStime]

7 hours ago, gobills404 said:

 

Oh I was fully aware of what was going on - but we couldn’t just taser the 15 year old?
 

Oh no we just had to end her life right there right now.

 

Bulllllshitttt

 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

7 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Been reading this side of the forum and found it interesting. Never really had any intention to reply but this made me speak.

 

First mistake is although football, soccer, bball is entertainment...its being played or performed by "people" just like you and I are

 

So whether you agree with their opinion or not they have the right to exercise that however they see fit. Just like you and i.

 

We need to stop viewing major sports as we do an average Joe's 9 to 5. It's not the same and it's not governed the same. So when they are in "uniform" they have the right to do whatever they like. I don't remember any athlete kneeling during a game, I remembered it being done before the game even starts so what is the problem?

 

Men and women fought for our right to stand or not stand for the anthem so if it bothers anyone so much just change the channI.

 

..the national anthem is what....on for 2 mins before a game starts..I mean if we were to really look into what Americans are doing during the national anthem i am sure we will see plenty doing things other than standing and honoring the flag.

 

And I will never understand how is asking for equality political...

 

To me kneeling peacefully is a lot better than rioting n looting in my opinion.

 

Thanks for wading in, and sharing your perspective. 
 

I don’t quite understand you on folks choosing to express disdain for kneeling.  If everyone is entitled to an opinion and thoughts on the subject, why do we need to go further than that?  
 

Some folks changed the channel.  Some folks stopped watching.  Some folks kneeled.  Others didn’t.   It seems to me the debate was sort of uniquely American. 
 

For what it’s worth, I had no interest in watching the NFL for it evolved into 3 hours of social justice activism, or frankly 30 minutes of it.  With few exceptions,  I’m not looking to players for any great life lessons.  
 

I think the NFL did a good job of managing all that this past season.  A couple bumps in the road—the Steelers paying tribute to an individual while one honored a fallen soldier, the sniping at the non-compliant player only to find out later the guy was not an innocent victim of police violence.  
 

The reality seems to me to be that the players aren’t able to do whatever they want, but the NFL has to walk the fine line between managing player expectations, social causes and keeping paying customers as paying customers.  It’s a work in progress. 
 

Fair point on kneeling v rioting.  And, while I supported DJT as President, I thought his foray into this subject was a mistake and he should have kept his thoughts to himself. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

20 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Oh I was fully aware of what was going on - but we couldn’t just taser the 15 year old?
 

Oh no we just had to end her life right there right now.

 

Bulllllshitttt

 

 

 

Wouldn’t it be more appropriate for Ask Shakur to twit about why the police officer was “incapable of breaking up an assault with a deadly weapon” with a taser v “a fight”?  It doesn’t look like a fight at all.  
 

 

[Unforgiven]

    The problem with this chauvin clown is this isn't a single individual committing 

a crime, the left truly believes in their minds that he represents all the people 

 they hate,  the right, trumpers, white people, christians, and anyone else who doesn't 

agree with them.

     They want all of them jailed or dead, asap.

[BillStime]

5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Wouldn’t it be more appropriate for Ask Shakur to twit about why the police officer was “incapable of breaking up an assault with a deadly weapon” with a taser v “a fight”?  It doesn’t look like a fight at all.  
 

 

The officer couldn’t find a better way to diffuse the situation? 

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Wouldn’t it be more appropriate for Ask Shakur to twit about why the police officer was “incapable of breaking up an assault with a deadly weapon” with a taser v “a fight”?  It doesn’t look like a fight at all.  
 

 

Looking at the tape, this is one where the officer has to make a split second decision.  He doesn't shoot odds are the girl with the knife kills the other kid.  It's not at all like kneeling on a guy's neck for 9 some minutes.

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

The officer couldn’t find a better way to diffuse the situation? 

Again a split second decision.  He either does something or the girl stabs another kid.  This is why policing is a tremendously difficult profession and why I stand behind law enforcement.  The taser may not have stopped it, he could have been stabbed, etc.  

[Melon]

On 3/29/2021 at 11:40 AM, 716er said:

 

He will not be sentenced to death. The country will not burn.

 

But they broke a window at a Starbucks!!!!!!!

 

On 3/29/2021 at 11:04 AM, B-Man said:

Nothing is ever enough to appease the mob.

 

 

A STARBUCKS

[Backintheday544]

19 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Looking at the tape, this is one where the officer has to make a split second decision.  He doesn't shoot odds are the girl with the knife kills the other kid.  It's not at all like kneeling on a guy's neck for 9 some minutes.

Again a split second decision.  He either does something or the girl stabs another kid.  This is why policing is a tremendously difficult profession and why I stand behind law enforcement.  The taser may not have stopped it, he could have been stabbed, etc.  

 

The thing with unconscious bias is split second decisions could result in wildly different outcomes based on unconscious bias.

 

the image passed around a lot is:

 

White guy reaching for a gun, split second decision needs to be made but instead of using excessive force the cops just like whoa man.

[SoCal Deek]

Immediately blaming the police for every confrontation that turns violent has always seemed odd to me. The real question we should be asking ourselves is why there are so many of these confrontations in the first place. There really should be very few. As a society, we need to spend some major money on public service announcements and in-school training on the appropriate way to interact with police officers. Car chases, resisting arrest, refusing to obey reasonable commands, etc should all disappear from the video footage we’ve become so accustomed to seeing time, and time, and time again.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Backintheday544 said:

 

The thing with unconscious bias is split second decisions could result in wildly different outcomes based on unconscious bias.

 

the image passed around a lot is:

 

White guy reaching for a gun, split second decision needs to be made but instead of using excessive force the cops just like whoa man.

I see your point.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

17 minutes ago, BillStime said:

The officer couldn’t find a better way to diffuse the situation? 

I see a few choices. 
 

1. Conversate and attempt to defuse;  

 

2.  Wade in and risk being injured, assaulted and/or killed while precious time is wasted as the victim is being assaulted;

 

3.  Try to taze the aggressor in hopes you disable before she plunges the knife into the other child’s body, perhaps repeatedly;

 

4. Use deadly force;

 

5.  Call for back up and stand down;

 

All carry risk, all carry downside, and all suck across the board.  Interestingly, there were citizens about that likely could have defused the situation as well, but that didn’t seem to be a priority. 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Immediately blaming the police for every confrontation that turns violent has always seemed odd to me. The real question we should be asking ourselves is why there are so many of these confrontations in the first place. There really should be very few. As a society, we need to spend some major money on public service announcements and in-school training on the appropriate way to interact with police officers. Car chases, resisting arrest, refusing to obey reasonable commands, etc should all disappear from the video footage we’ve become so accustomed to seeing time, and time, and time again.

I see your point, and would agree somewhat, but when I talk to friends that are black their point is that when they do what you say, such as obey commands and such, they still feel threatened.  I think the soldier who got threatened by 2 policemen just because they did not see his temporary plate is a prime example.  As a white man that would not have happened to me.

 

I agree with the general idea of not stimulating more conflict by running from the police etc.  But police trying also needs to emphasize de-escalation methods as well as better physical restraint methods.  I still think it is ridiculous that for young Mr. Wright that 3 police officers could not physically restrain one kid without having to use what turned out to be a gun and not a Taser.  
 

Ultimately this comes down to a lack of trust on both sides, which leads to fear on both sides.  Black men and women fear they will be shot when confronted by police, police feel they will be shot by a black man.  If I were running the show I’d focus on rebuilding trust; have neighborhood policing, have officers visit schools and such to establish rapport.  I’d be telling black clergy to emphasize family ties and working with instead of against police.  A lot to be done, but the verdict yesterday says that, at least in this case, justice can prevail.

[BillStime]

5 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I see a few choices. 
 

1. Conversate and attempt to defuse;  

 

2.  Wade in and risk being injured, assaulted and/or killed while precious time is wasted as the victim is being assaulted;

 

3.  Try to taze the aggressor in hopes you disable before she plunges the knife into the other child’s body, perhaps repeatedly;

 

4. Use deadly force;

 

5.  Call for back up and stand down;

 

All carry risk, all carry downside, and all suck across the board.  Interestingly, there were citizens about that likely could have defused the situation as well, but that didn’t seem to be a priority. 

 

 

 

You’re right - a lot going on. Still think the taser should take priority over the gun whenever possible.

[Tiberius]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Immediately blaming the police for every confrontation that turns violent has always seemed odd to me. The real question we should be asking ourselves is why there are so many of these confrontations in the first place. There really should be very few. As a society, we need to spend some major money on public service announcements and in-school training on the appropriate way to interact with police officers. Car chases, resisting arrest, refusing to obey reasonable commands, etc should all disappear from the video footage we’ve become so accustomed to seeing time, and time, and time again.

But people were upset that the cop was found guilty of murder. How is that immediately? 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I see your point, and would agree somewhat, but when I talk to friends that are black their point is that when they do what you say, such as obey commands and such, they still feel threatened.  I think the soldier who got threatened by 2 policemen just because they did not see his temporary plate is a prime example.  As a white man that would not have happened to me.

 

I agree with the general idea of not stimulating more conflict by running from the police etc.  But police trying also needs to emphasize de-escalation methods as well as better physical restraint methods.  I still think it is ridiculous that for young Mr. Wright that 3 police officers could not physically restrain one kid without having to use what turned out to be a gun and not a Taser.  
 

Ultimately this comes down to a lack of trust on both sides, which leads to fear on both sides.  Black men and women fear they will be shot when confronted by police, police feel they will be shot by a black man.  If I were running the show I’d focus on rebuilding trust; have neighborhood policing, have officers visit schools and such to establish rapport.  I’d be telling black clergy to emphasize family ties and working with instead of against police.  A lot to be done, but the verdict yesterday says that, at least in this case, justice can prevail.

You’re right and we agree more often than not. But...how much have you seen or heard of public education during this entire mess? Less than zero! Shameful. Police don’t randomly show up at your birthday party, nor come down the chimney like Santa Claus. They respond to a radio call from someone needing assistance or because someone is breaking the law. It’s very much up to the public to understand that this is NOT a game! 

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

But people were upset that the cop was found guilty of murder. How is that immediately? 

There will be ‘people upset’ with just about anything Tibs but I cannot recall a case where there was pretty much universal condemnation of the officer from the moment this episode was exposed. Virtually nobody, left or right, thought he was innocent. Nobody!

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’re right and we agree more often than not. But...how much have you seen or heard of public education during this entire mess? Less than zero! Shameful. Police don’t randomly show up at your birthday party, nor come down the chimney like Santa Claus. They respond to a radio call from someone needing assistance or because someone is breaking the law. It’s very much up to the public to understand that this is NOT a game! 

There will be ‘people upset’ with just about anything Tibs but I cannot recall a case where there was pretty much universal condemnation of the officer from the moment this episode was exposed. Virtually nobody, left or right, thought he was innocent. Nobody!

Tucker Carlson, mouthpiece of the Trump cult is crying that the people of the city intimidated the jury. As if 

 

Ya, the right wing was hoping he got off 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I see a few choices. 
 

1. Conversate and attempt to defuse;  

 

2.  Wade in and risk being injured, assaulted and/or killed while precious time is wasted as the victim is being assaulted;

 

3.  Try to taze the aggressor in hopes you disable before she plunges the knife into the other child’s body, perhaps repeatedly;

 

4. Use deadly force;

 

5.  Call for back up and stand down;

 

All carry risk, all carry downside, and all suck across the board.  Interestingly, there were citizens about that likely could have defused the situation as well, but that didn’t seem to be a priority. 

 

 

 

I think it’s time for number 5. Give the people what they want. 

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’re right and we agree more often than not. But...how much have you seen or heard of public education during this entire mess? Less than zero! Shameful. Police don’t randomly show up at your birthday party, nor come down the chimney like Santa Claus. They respond to a radio call from someone needing assistance or because someone is breaking the law. It’s very much up to the public to understand that this is NOT a game! 

There will be ‘people upset’ with just about anything Tibs but I cannot recall a case where there was pretty much universal condemnation of the officer from the moment this episode was exposed. Virtually nobody, left or right, thought he was innocent. Nobody!

 When you say the police only show up to a radio call, that is what I'm talking about with respect to re-establishing trust.  I think police should be out in communities during times of non-confrontation, establishing relationships in the community.  

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, TH3 said:

It’s racist because it was written and passed into effect by a bunch of Republican white guys with with zero input and utter disregard from black constituents.

if the tables were turned the butt hurt from you would be huge.

So that’s all you got. It was passed by Republican white guys therefore it’s racist?  🙄
 

Let me ask you. Any idea how much input did they get from white constituents?  Has your local state politician called you for your input?  You do realize why we elect them right?  To make laws on our behalf.  Don’t like their record? Campaign to have them removed.  A wise man once said “elections have consequences.”  

 

Give me an example of the tables being turned and I’ll let you know if I would be butt hurt. 

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

It’s funny how no one seemed to mind Tim Tebow kneeling for religious purposes during sports but as soon as the black guy took a knee to protest police violence the racists went nuts.

 

Why does everyone have to play by THEIR rules?

 

We don’t. 
 

 

When, during the game, did Tebow kneel? Answer that and hopefully you’ll see the difference.  
 

Feels vs facts again.