Ryan Bates has eye on starting role [paywall]

[Sherlock Holmes]

3 minutes ago, DJB said:

This was Beane's favorite part of the article when he read it;

 

He passed the test in Carolina, stepping in at center during practices and playing 55 snaps in the preseason game against the Panthers.

 

 

That's my McCaffrey O face

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

People have been predicting the break through of Ryan Bates for at least 2 years now. He kind of has to make it happen this year.

 

Considering he was undrafted and traded for by the Bills in 2019, people can have been predicting this for at most 🙄 2 years now.

 

OLmen who are drafted in the first couple rounds are pretty much expected to start immediately or crack the starting lineup after a year

It's not uncommon for late-round or UDFA guys to take 3-4 years to crack the starting lineup. 

 

Feliciano (4th round) started 4 games in 3 years before starting 4 games his 4th year then getting a chance to start in Buffalo.   Boettger took 3 years.  Bates has shown he can play in limited action. 

 

Competent OL play is in short enough supply that there's no "has to make it happen" for Bates.  The Bills have shown they value depth and versatility on OL.  If Bates doesn't crack the starting lineup this season it will be easier for the Bills to keep him around as depth if they like him.

 

There's an example of the class "journeyman OL" on the Bills right now in the form of 7 year veteran Jordan Devey.  He's played on 6 teams, including starting 6 games for NE during a Superbowl run, and 7 games for the Chiefs in 2018 befor IR'ing with a torn pec.

 

53 minutes ago, TPS said:

If his focus and goal is at C, this makes me wonder how Trey Adams is coming along (since they will need a swing OT)?

 

I'm not sure the Bills love Bates at C since they re-up'd Feliciano, who says he'll do whatever the team needs but who also says he prefers to play C.  But for sure, the Bills want to have 2 guys active who can fill in at T capably.  They were actually playing 2 backup T in one game - I think it was Seattle.  The announcers commented in surprise just after commenting on the Seahawks struggles to protect Wilson.  The Bills were "perambulating the football down the field", Allen had adequate time to throw, and they were "oh, the Bills have 3 backup OLmen playing right now".  Course then at another point in the game they sacked Allen 7 times, but he took that on himself for holding the ball too long.

 

A lot of babble to say if they don't like how Adams is coming along, I expect them to bring in a couple of vet tackles so they can keep 2 guys who can play tackle on the roster.  Unless of course they really think Bates or Mongo could fill in at tackle, but....

 

[Bray Wyatt]

Merge perhaps?

 

 

[Numark3]

So can Bates play any of the three interior lineman spots?  If so, let’s add a young Tackle in the draft so we have those two waiting in the wings.

[Bray Wyatt]

Just now, Crayola64 said:

So can Bates play any of the three interior lineman spots?  If so, let’s add a young Tackle in the draft so we have those two waiting in the wings.

I think they believe he can play any of the 5, I like you’re thought process though as he is probably better suited inside due to shorter arms

[Doc]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

People have been predicting the break through of Ryan Bates for at least 2 years now. He kind of has to make it happen this year.

 

The Bills have to let it happen.  When Morse went down, it would have been the perfect time to see what he could do at center. 

[TPS]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

A lot of babble to say if they don't like how Adams is coming along, I expect them to bring in a couple of vet tackles so they can keep 2 guys who can play tackle on the roster.  Unless of course they really think Bates or Mongo could fill in at tackle, but....
 

Regardless of how they feel about Adams, I think you're right about bringing in at least one vet OT, as it appears Beane is making sure that he has filled all of the holes--including depth issues--on the roster before the draft so he can claim to go with the BPA. That's why they need to bring in a vet S too. 

 

This Bills' draft is going to be very interesting.  They have a lot of areas where they need to improve their depth (OT being one), but if they truly believe they can make it to the Big Game, then they need to draft a couple people with the first two picks who will help this year.  While they could definitely use a #1 edge rusher, I think anyone who will be there at 30 is going to have a lot of question marks, and may not contribute enough this year. If they want to go for it this year, I think they will target CB2, as there should be someone who can help right away (Newsome is my current R1 target).  I also think they want a true big nickel candidate, as Neal does not really fit what McD wants, but I'm not sure there's someone at 30 (or later) who fits it (I like Moehrig a lot, but I'm not sure he's a big nickel)?  

 

Draft priorities in order: CB2, Edge (only if someone slips), Big Nickel

Depth Draft needs: OT, LB, TE (I'd rank OT slightly above the other two)

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, TPS said:

Regardless of how they feel about Adams, I think you're right about bringing in at least one vet OT, as it appears Beane is making sure that he has filled all of the holes--including depth issues--on the roster before the draft so he can claim to go with the BPA. That's why they need to bring in a vet S too. 

 

This Bills' draft is going to be very interesting.  They have a lot of areas where they need to improve their depth (OT being one), but if they truly believe they can make it to the Big Game, then they need to draft a couple people with the first two picks who will help this year.  While they could definitely use a #1 edge rusher, I think anyone who will be there at 30 is going to have a lot of question marks, and may not contribute enough this year. If they want to go for it this year, I think they will target CB2, as there should be someone who can help right away (Newsome is my current R1 target).  I also think they want a true big nickel candidate, as Neal does not really fit what McD wants, but I'm not sure there's someone at 30 (or later) who fits it (I like Moehrig a lot, but I'm not sure he's a big nickel)?  

 

Draft priorities in order: CB2, Edge (only if someone slips), Big Nickel

Depth Draft needs: OT, LB, TE (I'd rank OT slightly above the other two)

 

It's an interesting question how they'll go in the draft.

 

From comments in his pressers during the playoffs, I do somewhat think if the offense doesn't get a first round type talent this offseason, Daboll might require sedation.  He sounded a bit salty saying something like "we only have 1 first round pick on the offensive side of the ball". ( wasn't counting Diggs as a 1st round pick, which Beane and McDermott certainly will).

 

There's something to be said for the philosophy that @BADOLBILZ and others have expressed that maybe offense (paraphrasing) is our "Fastball" now, and we should keep putting the best talent we can around Allen.  I think the playoffs showed that we still have gaps to our offensive game that the best teams can exploit to limit or shut us down, run game (speed)/pass catching threat at RB, and a solid player at TE. 

 

OTOH there's also merit to the philosophy that one can find talented players throughout the draft, and we have to look for a good match between team development needs and the best talent available in the vicinity when we pick.

 

1 hour ago, Crayola64 said:

So can Bates play any of the three interior lineman spots?  If so, let’s add a young Tackle in the draft so we have those two waiting in the wings.

 

He believes he can play across the line - certainly he may be seen as more of a C/G.  But is he a true starting talent in the interior?  Dunno.

 

I personally tend to believe the Bills are a bit trying to get "Champagne production on a Beer Budget" at OL.  If we want an OL that excels at both pass protection and in the run game, maybe we need to invest some draft capital?  That's a true questionmark because I don't follow college football or the draft analysis process to understand how the talent falls off at OL.

[TPS]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's an interesting question how they'll go in the draft.

 

From comments in his pressers during the playoffs, I do somewhat think if the offense doesn't get a first round type talent this offseason, Daboll might require sedation.  He sounded a bit salty saying something like "we only have 1 first round pick on the offensive side of the ball". ( wasn't counting Diggs as a 1st round pick, which Beane and McDermott certainly will).

 

There's something to be said for the philosophy that @BADOLBILZ and others have expressed that maybe offense (paraphrasing) is our "Fastball" now, and we should keep putting the best talent we can around Allen.  I think the playoffs showed that we still have gaps to our offensive game that the best teams can exploit to limit or shut us down, run game (speed)/pass catching threat at RB, and a solid player at TE. 

 

OTOH there's also merit to the philosophy that one can find talented players throughout the draft, and we have to look for a good match between team development needs and the best talent available in the vicinity when we pick.

 

Just to be clear, I think they could certainly pick BPA at a lot of positions and improve those, so I wouldn't complain if they picked one of either Harris or Ettiene, for example.  The only obvious area where they don't need to upgrade is QB.  Personally, I'd like to see them make an "unsexy" pick of a stud C to settle that position for the rest of Josh's career--sorry Ryan Bates.  Of course, that's just my thinking for today.

[Albany,n.y.]

On 3/26/2021 at 12:20 PM, HOUSE said:

Doesn't he have a brother Master ?

IDK, but he has a brother named Norman who is a real psycho. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Considering he was undrafted and traded for by the Bills in 2019, people can have been predicting this for at most 🙄 2 years now.

 

 

 

Because it is now 2021? Basically from the moment we traded for him people have been talking the kid up. I am just not sure the play on the field when he has got out there has backed it up.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because it is now 2021? Basically from the moment we traded for him people have been talking the kid up. I am just not sure the play on the field when he has got out there has backed it up.

 

I haven't heard a lot of "talking him up", and he hasn't put a lot of play on the field (lack of preseason games undoubtedly hurt guys like him last season.  I take your point that he clearly hasn't put enough out there to win someone's job, my counterpoint is that I see no reason to believe it's a "must break through" season for him. 

 

1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said:

IDK, but he has a brother named Norman who is a real psycho. 

 

Trivia: I believe I read that Ryan Bates father is, in fact, named Norman.  But he doesn't own a motel.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I haven't heard a lot of "talking him up", and he hasn't put a lot of play on the field (lack of preseason games undoubtedly hurt guys like him last season.  I take your point that he clearly hasn't put enough out there to win someone's job, my counterpoint is that I see no reason to believe it's a "must break through" season for him. 

 

I feel like I have read the "Ryan Bates is a sneaky breakout contender" pretty much from the moment we traded for him on this forum. I was open to that idea but his one game with significant snaps in 2019 week 17 was rough. The reason I say it is now or never to an extent is that he is entering the final year of his rookie deal and then the Bills are in the position where they have to make a decision on him. Tendering him is not expensive but it isn't pennies either for a backup lineman who has barely got on the field even through injuries, especially when you are paying four of your five starters. Maybe the language sounded a bit dramatic but this is a critical season for Ryan Bates. If he is still their 2nd reserve interior lineman behind the 3 starters and Ike come the end of the season I feel it is unlikely he would be retained. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

Just to be clear, I think they could certainly pick BPA at a lot of positions and improve those, so I wouldn't complain if they picked one of either Harris or Ettiene, for example.  The only obvious area where they don't need to upgrade is QB.  Personally, I'd like to see them make an "unsexy" pick of a stud C to settle that position for the rest of Josh's career--sorry Ryan Bates.  Of course, that's just my thinking for today.

 

Maybe they don't need to upgrade at WR right now?  Unsure.  Speed with hands and ball-tracking skills, I guess.

 

I would also love to see the Bills draft a top C prospect who can also play G.  Let him understudy Morse and compete to start at G this season, as Eric Wood did.  I freely acknowledge having no clue whether there's a talent drop off at that position from R1 to R2 these days. 

 

FWIW, Eric Wood was drafted as a C/G at #28 in the 1st round.  The NO Saints had 3 1st round picks invested in the OL to protect their Brees-y investment and run well, LG, RG, RT.  The Titans are cheaping it at OL and running well anyway with Henry, though they got shut down in the playoffs.  The Bucs had 1st rounder Tristan Wirfs at RT.  The Chiefs had Eric Fisher, and their OL play went to hell when he went down late in the AFCCG.  The Seasnakes have a 1st rounder at LT and LG and Wilson beefs that's not enough.    The 49ers had one of their own and 2 of other team's 1st round picks on OL and were "meh" in the run game with a hindered passing attack.  Traditionally the Patriots went "bargain basement" on OL, but they had Coach Scar who seemed able to meld just about anyone into a smooth functioning OL machine.

 

Long winded way to say I can see there are different ways winning teams handle the OL, but it seems to me that if you want to be able to both run and pass against the very best DLs in the league, which you gotta be able to do to win championships, maybe it takes an exceptional OL coach or else some investment in the best athletes on OL.

[TPS]

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maybe they don't need to upgrade at WR right now?  Unsure.  Speed with hands and ball-tracking skills, I guess.

 

I would also love to see the Bills draft a top C prospect who can also play G.  Let him understudy Morse and compete to start at G this season, as Eric Wood did.  I freely acknowledge having no clue whether there's a talent drop off at that position from R1 to R2 these days. 

 

FWIW, Eric Wood was drafted as a C/G at #28 in the 1st round.  The NO Saints had 3 1st round picks invested in the OL to protect their Brees-y investment and run well, LG, RG, RT.  The Titans are cheaping it at OL and running well anyway with Henry, though they got shut down in the playoffs.  The Bucs had 1st rounder Tristan Wirfs at RT.  The Chiefs had Eric Fisher, and their OL play went to hell when he went down late in the AFCCG.  The Seasnakes have a 1st rounder at LT and LG and Wilson beefs that's not enough.    The 49ers had one of their own and 2 of other team's 1st round picks on OL and were "meh" in the run game with a hindered passing attack.  Traditionally the Patriots went "bargain basement" on OL, but they had Coach Scar who seemed able to meld just about anyone into a smooth functioning OL machine.

 

Long winded way to say I can see there are different ways winning teams handle the OL, but it seems to me that if you want to be able to both run and pass against the very best DLs in the league, which you gotta be able to do to win championships, maybe it takes an exceptional OL coach or else some investment in the best athletes on OL.

Yes, fully agree on the EWoods model, and didn't mean to imply he'd start right away. 

However, taking a C, though, would suggest they are taking the long view, and not going all-in to can get to The Game this year.  I actually favor this approach, and a lot of my mock drafting on the simulator does some trading back to pick up at least a R2 as ammo to move up in 2022 for that edge rusher.

 

[Rocky Landing]

He has the position flexibility that McD/Beane covet. IMO, he's been a decent backup/depth player. I think Boettger is a better guard, and Mongo a better center. With the current roster, even if we lose Morse, I don't think he would supplant any of our starters. If there's any real O-line competition, I would think it was at guard between Mongo, Ford, Boettger, Bates in that order.

In that group, I would hope that the deciding factor would be run blocking. I'm of the opinion that Mongo is the best of the four, but I really don't know after that. We ran the ball so infrequently last season, there's scant sample size for Ford, Boettger, or Bates run blocking.

[John from Riverside]

I am a big fan of Ryan Bates and def want him on the team.......but as the jack of all trades backup guy.....let him back up the guard and center postions.....Trey Adams the swing OT

[Don Otreply]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills have to let it happen.  When Morse went down, it would have been the perfect time to see what he could do at center. 

From a fans view, sure, but having JF already a starter with center skills was the more likely choice at that time, coaches are always looking at a bigger picture than the fan base is, just the nature of those that do the job vs those that are watching the job done from a distance...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

From a fans view, sure, but having JF already a starter with center skills was the more likely choice at that time, coaches are always looking at a bigger picture than the fan base is, just the nature of those that do the job vs those that are watching the job done from a distance...

 

Actually I think the decision to pull Bates after 1 drive at C and move Feliciano over, then keep him there for the next several games, had more to do with Jon's injury status recovering from the torn pec than with Bates vs Mongo at center.   McDermott said after the game that they'd planned to have Feliciano on a snap count, not playing the whole game.  Feliciano said it was easier for him to play center because he had help on both sides and admitted that his pec was not 100%. 

 

I think the sequence went something like this:

    Morse injured -> Bates in while concussion evaluation -> yep, concussion, Morse out for the game ->OhShit! ->can we get a whole game out of Jon? -> Bates out, Feliciano to center, Boettger in at LG

 

Note that in this hypothetical decision sequence, the Bills pretty clearly think Boettger > Bates at LG and Winters > Bates at RG

They may or may not think Feliciano > Bates at C but they clearly think OL with recovering-from-injured Feliciano somewhere > OL with uninjured Bates

 

The general fan opinion seemed to be that Winters kind of sucked at RG but PFF (for what it's worth) actually had him graded higher than Feliciano IIRC (Erik Turner had a turn-up with some folks on Twitter where he brought up a bunch of PFF line evaluation stats) 🤷‍♂️  That's clearly not how the Bills coaches saw it

 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Trivia: I believe I read that Ryan Bates father is, in fact, named Norman.  But he doesn't own a motel.

You're right!  I looked it up in the Bills media guide.