Jayson Oweh DE PSU my first round TGT.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, CNYfan said:

I think I agree with this strategy.   Nonetheless the Big Baller sees we lack pass rush.   And  will have to match value and need so I would hope BBB goes with the best football player on the board.

 

Oweh also lacks pass rush.  Sure the measurables are impressive but if he can't do anything with them, what good are they?  I'd rather see what Epenesa does with his frustrating rookie year behind him and Obada does with an increased workload.  I just think that CB and 1-tech are the biggest needs right now.

 

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

A 1tech in the 2nd round?? God no.

 

Why not?  It would be the 29th pick in the 2nd round.  Are you going to wait until the 29th pick in the 3rd round?  They need a rotational player with and an eventual replacement for Star.  The higher he's taken the better he theoretically should be.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Doc

[Bangarang]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Oweh also lacks pass rush.  Sure the measurables are impressive but if he can't do anything with them, what good are they?  I'd rather see what Epenesa does with his frustrating rookie year behind him and Obada does with an increased workload.  I just think that CB and 1-tech are the biggest needs right now.

This mentality is how you end drafting a guy like Torell Troup in the 2nd round. 

CB may be BPA in the 1st but it’s very difficult to see how a space eating 1 tech will be a good pick in the 2nd. 
 

Just draft playmakers regardless of where they play. This team does need help on the d-line in the worst way. There’s no way we should be content at DE. Hughes and Addison are old while Epenesa and Obada seem like nothing more than depth players.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Bangarang

[4merper4mer]

18 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

This mentality is how you end drafting a guy like Torell Troup in the 2nd round. 

CB may be BPA in the 1st but it’s very difficult to see how a space eating 1 tech will be a good pick in the 2nd. 
 

Just draft playmakers regardless of where they play. This team does need help on the d-line in the worst way. There’s no way we should be content at DE. Hughes and Addison are old while Epenesa and Obada seem like nothing more than depth players.

He should change his mentality to preferring guys like Noweh who are bad at football?

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He was the #1 RB per ESPN and a projected 1st round pick.  SI and Foxsports mocked him in top 10

This is starting to be unhealthy😆

 

Being the #1 RB in that draft is like being the best looking person in an ICU Burn Unit.

 

Who else was relevant? Ryan Matthews maybe? We had FJ and Lynch, albeit disgruntled. We didn't need to take a chance on a scat back. Was he the top RB? Maybe, but he wasn't a Top 10 talent or a need for the Bills.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

21 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

There’s no way we should be content at DE. Hughes and Addison are old while Epenesa and Obada seem like nothing more than depth players.

Its too early to judge Epenesa. We should know better in this upcoming season. IMO, players drafted at the bottom of the 1st round/2nd round should be given 2 years. 

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

This mentality is how you end drafting a guy like Torell Troup in the 2nd round. 

CB may be BPA in the 1st but it’s very difficult to see how a space eating 1 tech will be a good pick in the 2nd. 
 

Just draft playmakers regardless of where they play. This team does need help on the d-line in the worst way. There’s no way we should be content at DE. Hughes and Addison are old while Epenesa and Obada seem like nothing more than depth players.

 

I have no idea from where the idea that you can't/shouldn't take a 1-tech before the 3rd round came?  Again as I asked Scott, are you waiting until the 93rd pick of the draft to take a guy you want to be your 1-tech of the future? 
 

As for those guys being depth, I disagree.  But they're not getting rid of any of them in favor of a rookie.

[Bangarang]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I have no idea from where the idea that you can't/shouldn't take a 1-tech before the 3rd round came?  Again as I asked Scott, are you waiting until the 93rd pick of the draft to take a guy you want to be your 1-tech of the future? 
 

As for those guys being depth, I disagree.  But they're not getting rid of any of them in favor of a rookie.

In this specific class, the value for a 1t doesn’t match where you suggest we take him. You’re suggesting we reach for a rotational player just for the sake of filling a need. It’s typically a bad strategy.

 

How could you possibly disagree that Epenesa and Obada are nothing more than depth players right now? Do you think they’re going to be 3 down players in our defense? 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

This is starting to be unhealthy😆

 

Being the #1 RB in that draft is like being the best looking person in an ICU Burn Unit.

 

Who else was relevant? Ryan Matthews maybe? We had FJ and Lynch, albeit disgruntled. We didn't need to take a chance on a scat back. Was he the top RB? Maybe, but he wasn't a Top 10 talent or a need for the Bills.

 

 

Judge a first round RB on their first four years. Smart teams should never pick up the fifth-year option anyway. He didn’t play much from scrimmage in year one, but averaged 14.6 yards for punt returns (elite) and had a huge kickoff return for a TD vs. NE in a game that ended up being a heartbreaking shootout loss, as you’ll recall. He returned a ton of kicks that year. In year 2, he shared duties but averaged over 5 ypc and had 39 catches. He was a game breaker who wasn’t used enough. In year 3, he was straight-up elite, averaging 6 ypc and nearly 11 yards per reception (both genuinely elite for a running back). I watched those games, and the stat sheet production mirrored reality — he was a game breaker. Then, in season 4, Marrone gets rid of the Gailey offense, which he excelled in, and puts in a neanderthal-like power offense which required him to power it up through the middle. He still had nearly 1000 yards and 4.6 ypc. Bear in mind that he shared duties with Fred J that year, and Jackson had 900 yards rushing too. The offense sucked, but they did lead the league in rushing attempts and were second in rushing yardage—and Spiller was the lead rusher for them. Then, he gets in Marrone’s dog house the next season, and the injuries hit too. After that he didn’t do much except for putting up decent receiving numbers in 2015 in NO. 
 

The point is, he had a couple of explosive seasons, one of which was fantastic, one pretty decent season in a terrible offense with a terrible qb, and then a slow fizzle. He wasn’t Aaron Maybin or John McCargo. For the four years you expect out of a RB these days, he was a pretty good player. I am NOT saying that spending a top ten pick on a RB is a good idea. It isn’t. But getting picked that high isn’t the back’s fault. Judge him for what he did relative to what one should expect out of the position rather than where he was picked.

[billsbackto81]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Judge a first round RB on their first four years. Smart teams should never pick up the fifth-year option anyway. He didn’t play much from scrimmage in year one, but averaged 14.6 yards for punt returns (elite) and had a huge kickoff return for a TD vs. NE in a game that ended up being a heartbreaking shootout loss, as you’ll recall. He returned a ton of kicks that year. In year 2, he shared duties but averaged over 5 ypc and had 39 catches. He was a game breaker who wasn’t used enough. In year 3, he was straight-up elite, averaging 6 ypc and nearly 11 yards per reception (both genuinely elite for a running back). I watched those games, and the stat sheet production mirrored reality — he was a game breaker. Then, in season 4, Marrone gets rid of the Gailey offense, which he excelled in, and puts in a neanderthal-like power offense which required him to power it up through the middle. He still had nearly 1000 yards and 4.6 ypc. Bear in mind that he shared duties with Fred J that year, and Jackson had 900 yards rushing too. The offense sucked, but they did lead the league in rushing attempts and were second in rushing yardage—and Spiller was the lead rusher for them. Then, he gets in Marrone’s dog house the next season, and the injuries hit too. After that he didn’t do much except for putting up decent receiving numbers in 2015 in NO. 
 

The point is, he had a couple of explosive seasons, one of which was fantastic, one pretty decent season in a terrible offense with a terrible qb, and then a slow fizzle. He wasn’t Aaron Maybin or John McCargo. For the four years you expect out of a RB these days, he was a pretty good player. I am NOT saying that spending a top ten pick on a RB is a good idea. It isn’t. But getting picked that high isn’t the back’s fault. Judge him for what he did relative to what one should expect out of the position rather than where he was picked.

No argument from me dude, I liked the guy. As I mentioned, he didn't pan out but he wasn't a bust. At least to me he wasn't.

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

In this specific class, the value for a 1t doesn’t match where you suggest we take him. You’re suggesting we reach for a rotational player just for the sake of filling a need. It’s typically a bad strategy.

 

How could you possibly disagree that Epenesa and Obada are nothing more than depth players right now? Do you think they’re going to be 3 down players in our defense?

 

The Bills don't play their DEs all 3 downs: they rotate them.  I expect to see Epensa and Obada eventually get more PT than the other guys.

 

As for this draft class at 1-tech, sure there is value at the end of the 2nd round for 1-techs.  Waiting 30 picks later won't help you find a better player.

 

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Oweh also lacks pass rush.  Sure the measurables are impressive but if he can't do anything with them, what good are they?  I'd rather see what Epenesa does with his frustrating rookie year behind him and Obada does with an increased workload.  I just think that CB and 1-tech are the biggest needs right now.

 

 

Why not?  It would be the 29th pick in the 2nd round.  Are you going to wait until the 29th pick in the 3rd round?  They need a rotational player with and an eventual replacement for Star.  The higher he's taken the better he theoretically should be.

Wow.  Just started watching game film of Oweh.  I have no idea how - even with freakish measurables - he can be considered in the first round.  I was open to him as an underdeveloped prospect when I was just reading about him, but the people who say he just isn’t good at football aren’t kidding.  How someone can do so little with so much raw ability is unbelievable.  Whichever team takes him is banking on being able to develop him from ground zero - and that rarely works.  Hard pass on a big investment on any player like that.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills don't play their DEs all 3 downs: they rotate them.  I expect to see Epensa and Obada eventually get more PT than the other guys.

 

As for this draft class at 1-tech, sure there is value at the end of the 2nd round for 1-techs.  Waiting 30 picks later won't help you find a better player.

 

 

So you agree that Epenesa and Obada are just depth rotation guys? 
 

Which 1t prospects are projected to go that high? 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Judge a first round RB on their first four years. Smart teams should never pick up the fifth-year option anyway. He didn’t play much from scrimmage in year one, but averaged 14.6 yards for punt returns (elite) and had a huge kickoff return for a TD vs. NE in a game that ended up being a heartbreaking shootout loss, as you’ll recall. He returned a ton of kicks that year. In year 2, he shared duties but averaged over 5 ypc and had 39 catches. He was a game breaker who wasn’t used enough. In year 3, he was straight-up elite, averaging 6 ypc and nearly 11 yards per reception (both genuinely elite for a running back). I watched those games, and the stat sheet production mirrored reality — he was a game breaker. Then, in season 4, Marrone gets rid of the Gailey offense, which he excelled in, and puts in a neanderthal-like power offense which required him to power it up through the middle. He still had nearly 1000 yards and 4.6 ypc. Bear in mind that he shared duties with Fred J that year, and Jackson had 900 yards rushing too. The offense sucked, but they did lead the league in rushing attempts and were second in rushing yardage—and Spiller was the lead rusher for them. Then, he gets in Marrone’s dog house the next season, and the injuries hit too. After that he didn’t do much except for putting up decent receiving numbers in 2015 in NO. 
 

The point is, he had a couple of explosive seasons, one of which was fantastic, one pretty decent season in a terrible offense with a terrible qb, and then a slow fizzle. He wasn’t Aaron Maybin or John McCargo. For the four years you expect out of a RB these days, he was a pretty good player. I am NOT saying that spending a top ten pick on a RB is a good idea. It isn’t. But getting picked that high isn’t the back’s fault. Judge him for what he did relative to what one should expect out of the position rather than where he was picked.

 

 

You lost me at 5th year option.    You are mixing eras.....those didn't exist back then.   The 1st round rookie deals were 5 years when Spiller was drafted(5 years $25M for Spiller).   That was down from Whitner's rookie deal when they were still 6 years long.   The flip side of excuses why he only had one exceptional season is that Gailey designed the system around his limitations to get the most out of him.    Spiller was a very slow thinker on the field.......he literally couldn't understand play calls in the huddle as a rookie.......which is why he didn't play much as a rookie.   He clearly never knew where the play designs were supposed to take him.......a direct contrast to the cerebral Fred Jackson.  Spiller was very, very limited intellectually........as Sean Peyton found out.......he was unplayable in any kind of complex system.    In summation, he was sold as Marshall Faulk 2.0 to justify picking him when RB was one of the few positions that they didn't need.   For a top 10 pick........yeah he was a bust.

Edited April 18, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Its too early to judge Epenesa. We should know better in this upcoming season. IMO, players drafted at the bottom of the 1st round/2nd round should be given 2 years. 

 

 

That works both ways though.   

 

With a team that is perceived as a SB contender you can't just assume that a guy who put up 1 sack on the season will improve dramatically or be good as your primary RDE.

 

He also had a couple head injuries last season so basic availability has to be taken into consideration.

 

When your production is terrible at a key position like that.......it rightfully should be a priority.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[ColoradoBills]

59 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

So you agree that Epenesa and Obada are just depth rotation guys? 
 

Which 1t prospects are projected to go that high? 

 

Epenesa was being brought around slow.  It is a playoff team and why would you throw a rookie into the fire if it wasn't needed?

Starting with game 11 he started to get a lot more snaps.  That is also during the time the D started playing better all around.

 

I can't see how after the limited play of a rookie that anyone can put a definitive label on him. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

So you agree that Epenesa and Obada are just depth rotation guys? 
 

Which 1t prospects are projected to go that high? 

 

Any DE taken by the Bills will be a rotation guy.  That's how they do it.  They play 2 downs at most.

 

As for 1t, Nixon, Tufele and Shelvin are guys who I see gone well before the Bills pick in the 3rd round at 93.  And most likely at least 1 will be gone by the time the Bills pick in the 2nd round at 61.  It's a need.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Any DE taken by the Bills will be a rotation guy.  That's how they do it.  They play 2 downs at most.

 

As for 1t, Nixon, Tufele and Shelvin are guys who I see gone well before the Bills pick in the 3rd round at 93.  And most likely at least 1 will be gone by the time the Bills pick in the 2nd round at 61.  It's a need.

I know it’s a need. This d-line is essentially rotation by necessity since we have quantity over quality. 
 

Oliver is the only guy who I think should be getting at least 60% of the snaps. I’m sure McD and Frazier would prefer a DE that can handle that many plays while still being productive. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

On 3/25/2021 at 8:53 PM, JimBob2232 said:

NO.  PSU homer here.  Hard pass. 

Any particular reason?  Do you not think he will attain his “potential” upside?

[JimBob2232]

1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Any particular reason?  Do you not think he will attain his “potential” upside?

I addressed this once, but reposting again

 

sure.  It’s the potential word.  He is a physical freak of nature. That’s what attracted penn state to him. In his 3 years at penn state he has not been a difference maker. In fact last season he declined in his performance and had ZERO sacks. 
 

sure he is an athletic freak.  Sure he has a high ceiling.  But he is also a 90% bust potential to me. He hasn’t shown any ability to develop that raw talent into on field production.  If he couldn’t do it at penn state in a college environment that has recently done extraordinarily well in developing talent - I highly doubt he is going to do that in on an NFL team who wants instant gratification and validation of their selection. 
 

i hope im wrong (especially if we do pick him).  And I wish him the best.  I just would be terrified of the “potential” word with him.  
 

im all in on parsons and friermuth. But not this kid.  Sorry. 

 

New add:  I saw a post on the PSU forum which i thought was pretty appropriate - as you can imagine this topic on Oweh comes up a lot.  Really 3 points of view.  the PSU homers who are overly optimistic all want him to go in the first round - the higher the better for the program.  Secondly, most think he will go late 1st/early 2nd, But 3rd, if they put their Fantasy GM hat on, most wouldnt touch him until late 2nd/early 3rd due to his "potential". Thats where you can start taking the boom/bust picks IMO.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by JimBob2232

[CSBill]

He looks great coming off the bus, and in his work out shorts. But game day production, nothing more than average. Arron Maybin was more productive at PSU. Nope, stay away from him, unless its late in round 2.