Do WR’s hate Lamar Jackson ?

[DCofNC]

You don’t go to that scheme, especially with Jackson on a “prove it” deal.  They have a legit 1 and don’t throw outside much at all, no thank you.

[TheFunPolice]

This is why football is such a fun and popular sport. There are so many totally different ways to play this game. 

 

I personally enjoy seeing teams take on entirely different personalities and styles. The Ravens have a way that they want to play football and win games, and it works most of the time with Lamar, judging by W/L record. 

 

When you play them it's an entirely different type of game, and that's fun for fans I think. Probably for a lot of players too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billsfan89]

I think WR’s just think the Ravens have a hard time passing to WR’s so it makes them less attractive as a destination. The Ravens likely are going to spend an early pick at WR to bolster that position maybe even their first two draft choices.

[SirAndrew]

44 minutes ago, 947 said:

Most players want to win, but all players want accolades. Guys making All Pro, the Pro Bowl, & the HOF matters to them. There really isn't any path to even making the Pro Bowl as one of Lamar Jackson's WRs in their current offense, let alone accumulating the yearly or career numbers needed to be considered among the best. Nobody with other options is going there.

I agree, some fans hate hearing this, but money is even more important than winning or accolades. Accolades make a player earn more money though. I think that’s the biggest fear players have with Baltimore. Agents and advisors always look at the big picture. The statistical decline of a season or two in Baltimore is going to decrease the value of a WR, causing them to earn less in the next contract. I think that’s the biggest fear these guys have. Signing with Baltimore limits future earning potential. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by SirAndrew

[Logic]

If I was an NFL wide receiver, the last thing I’d want to do is play in a Greg Roman offense.

 

Roman is an elite run game coordinator — possibly the best in the league. But he is an awful, AWFUL passing game coordinator. Really bad.

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, glazeduck said:

This article seems to suggest that both offers were 1 year, so there goes my theory there. That said, if the difference is only $1.5M, I don't think it really says that much about him choosing to NOT uproot himself/family/ life, learn a new playbook, connect with new teammates, figure out a new city, etc. It's easy to forget that these are people with friends and families and relationships with their teammates and coaches, and comforts and familiarities... 

 

 

Except JuJu was gone - said his goodbyes - He was moving on - right until his offers were not as a #1, but as an above average 2.  The previous John Brown range 8-9 million.
 

Suddenly when even the Jets offer barely beats the Steelers offer - that’s when he decides to come back.  It wasn’t friends, it wasn’t relationships - it was I got few offers and the Jets and Ravens have limited passing - let me go back to Pittsburgh and see if one more year let’s me move on for more.

 

It is one thing when these guys choose another offer and then give their goodbyes, but when you give your goodbyes before the end of the season and tell your teammates basically I’m not coming back and then sneak back when no one gives you what your agent thought - it is a bad look.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[MJS]

Has the media been blaming WR's to excuse Jackson? I don't know if I have seen that. I thought it was pretty well established that Jackson does not have a big arm and struggles throwing the ball outside the numbers.

[H2o]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Has the media been blaming WR's to excuse Jackson? I don't know if I have seen that. I thought it was pretty well established that Jackson does not have a big arm and struggles throwing the ball outside the numbers.

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

Dead last in pass attempts the last 2 years.  Brown has 171 targets over 2 years.  Andrews has more.  

One qualifying factor is that in 2019, 9 of their 14 wins were blowouts. In 2020, 8 of their 11 wins were blowouts. Point is, when they win, they tend to win big. That definitely reduces the number of pass attempts. I do realize they throw it less than other teams as a matter of policy, so I'm not discounting that.

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

This is why football is such a fun and popular sport. There are so many totally different ways to play this game. 

 

I personally enjoy seeing teams take on entirely different personalities and styles. The Ravens have a way that they want to play football and win games, and it works most of the time with Lamar, judging by W/L record. 

 

When you play them it's an entirely different type of game, and that's fun for fans I think. Probably for a lot of players too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Totally agree with this. I love the fact that the Ravens win in an entirely different way than other teams. Homogeneity sucks.

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

2015, on only 96 targets too.  That was that year where Tyrod was money on the deep ball.  

 

Romans offense never has stuff over the middle.  Didn't with Kaep, didnt with tyrod, doesnt with LJ.  Too much turnover potential, and the offense is built around not turning it over.  QBs buy time, but they take lots of sacks.  Probably preferable to take off and run if the teams in man.  

 

Not quite true - for LJ it is almost 75% between the hashes and in the shorter to intermediate levels to TEs.  Almost all of the throws go to the middle with few actual throws to the outside or to WRs.

 

For Kaep and Tyrod - almost all of the throws were to 1:1 WRs on the sidelines both short and deep.  Much fewer throws to the TEs or RBs in the middle.  
 

Kaep was less athletic and a better passer, but used small percentage of the field.  

 

Tyrod could run, but did not trust tight throws.  He wanted the receiver with a clear sight line and facing him - that was his cue to throw.  Nice completion percentage, but little in YAC.  The first year he was on fire on deep throws to streaking 1 on 1 WRs and that opened things up - as that dried up - so to did his passing attack.

 

LJ is the most athletic of the group and has a good enough arm to make most throws.  I also think his WRs are better than they get credit - they just do not get the volume.  I think the Roman offense limits severely any QB reads and places an emphasis on very specific throws based on single reads.  In Baltimore- those throws are top TEs because of the emphasis on the run.  Draw LBs and safeties up and hit the TEs in the gaps created.

 

What I don’t know is: Could LJ do more with a different offense or is his success tied to the style dictated by the Baltimore staff?  He has not shown a grasp on reading defenses, but is very good at reading individual players and making plays off from them.  Run/pass options, various pass combos based on a DE, LB, or safety - he can read and react to those.  Drop him back and force him to read a defense and find open spots - he is not there yet - the question is it Roman holding him back (WR route combos, formations, and scheme) or is it LJ and Roman is maximizing his ability - LJ just does not realize that yet.

 

Kaep and Tyrod were both maximized under Roman (and his scheme) and did not improve under other staffs.  LJ is still young, but he is missing his prime learning time and think he will also maximize under Roman.

[Maybe Someday]

He only threw for 2757 yards last year in 15 games. 5 games with over 200 yards and only 1 over 250.  A WR hoping to earn a big payday will not go there. 
 

He’s a faster Tyrod Taylor. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

30 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Not quite true - for LJ it is almost 75% between the hashes and in the shorter to intermediate levels to TEs.  Almost all of the throws go to the middle with few actual throws to the outside or to WRs.

 

For Kaep and Tyrod - almost all of the throws were to 1:1 WRs on the sidelines both short and deep.  Much fewer throws to the TEs or RBs in the middle.  
 

Kaep was less athletic and a better passer, but used small percentage of the field.  

 

Tyrod could run, but did not trust tight throws.  He wanted the receiver with a clear sight line and facing him - that was his cue to throw.  Nice completion percentage, but little in YAC.  The first year he was on fire on deep throws to streaking 1 on 1 WRs and that opened things up - as that dried up - so to did his passing attack.

 

LJ is the most athletic of the group and has a good enough arm to make most throws.  I also think his WRs are better than they get credit - they just do not get the volume.  I think the Roman offense limits severely any QB reads and places an emphasis on very specific throws based on single reads.  In Baltimore- those throws are top TEs because of the emphasis on the run.  Draw LBs and safeties up and hit the TEs in the gaps created.

 

What I don’t know is: Could LJ do more with a different offense or is his success tied to the style dictated by the Baltimore staff?  He has not shown a grasp on reading defenses, but is very good at reading individual players and making plays off from them.  Run/pass options, various pass combos based on a DE, LB, or safety - he can read and react to those.  Drop him back and force him to read a defense and find open spots - he is not there yet - the question is it Roman holding him back (WR route combos, formations, and scheme) or is it LJ and Roman is maximizing his ability - LJ just does not realize that yet.

 

Kaep and Tyrod were both maximized under Roman (and his scheme) and did not improve under other staffs.  LJ is still young, but he is missing his prime learning time and think he will also maximize under Roman.

 

Talented TEs definitely help.  I feel like the WR route tree is like fly, hitch, out, comeback.  And that reads into the high low  half field read.  

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Yeah they won't get any WRs to go there unless they sorely overpay them.  That offense runs through the TEs and RBs.

 

Agreed - and why would they pay big for a WR when they can’t validate the expenditure.

 

A tough spot for them moving forward. 

[FLFan]

6 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Anquan boldin, and sammy watkins

Good catch!  Thanks for destroying the Greg Roman portion of the narrative.  😉 I guess it must be the limitations of the QB?  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I can't say if they hate Lamar Jackson - by all accounts he's a super-nice guy so I don't know why any player would hate him

 

BUT

 

Greg Roman's offenses have been suspect for passing for a LONG time

 

Take a look.  3 different teams.  4 different QBs.  Passing offense climbed out of the bottom 5 one season out of 8 - 2012 (which happened to be the year the 49ers went to the Superbowl)

 

 

When he was in Buffalo, there were several regulars here who were critics of his pass game designs.

 

Now that said - Culley was their "passing game coordinator" and maybe they'll bring in someone who can mesh and work better with Roman and design a better passing offense. 

 

[ghostwriter]

6 hours ago, glazeduck said:

This article seems to suggest that both offers were 1 year, so there goes my theory there. That said, if the difference is only $1.5M, I don't think it really says that much about him choosing to NOT uproot himself/family/ life, learn a new playbook, connect with new teammates, figure out a new city, etc. It's easy to forget that these are people with friends and families and relationships with their teammates and coaches, and comforts and familiarities... 

Ben will get him the ball though, which could lead to a bigger future contract.

[Teddy KGB]

8 hours ago, HOUSE said:

The answer is yes, now what else do you need to know?

Wtf is a Bitcoin ? 

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, Maybe Someday said:

He only threw for 2757 yards last year in 15 games. 5 games with over 200 yards and only 1 over 250.  A WR hoping to earn a big payday will not go there. 
 

He’s a faster Tyrod Taylor. 

I like Tyrod, but Jackson is 10 times better than Tyrod. And as I said above, homogeneity sucks. The NFL's problem is that everyone runs a version of the same offense -- except for a couple of teams, most conspicuously the Ravens. I sincerely love the fact that there's a team not running a generic pro-style offense that's actually effective. To reiterate, sameness is boring.

Edited March 25, 2021 by dave mcbride

[Jerome007]

What WR likes to sprint all over the place to get just a few balls here and there? And they get the big $$$ with big numbers. Ravens and Lamar are run happy and it fits them well. I'd love to play OL or TE there. WR? Hell no LOL

 

 

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Greg Roman's offenses have been suspect for passing for a LONG time

When he was in Buffalo, there were several regulars here who were critics of his pass game designs.

It was actually weird how creative the run plays were (and I wonder why it's not copied more!) yet the pass game was dumb. Recall how he used Watkins as a decoy all the time?

[machine gun kelly]

18 hours ago, H2o said:

I put much of the fault on Roman's schemes as much as Jackson. He's very vanilla in the passing game, so much so that Jackson and others talked about how defenses knew what plays they were going to run pre-snap. The only WR ever to get 1,000 yds in a Roman offense was Michael Crabtree, one time, if I am not mistaken. 

H2O, I don’t know.  Sometimes, OC’s construct offenses around their talent.  Lamar doesn’t seem to be able to throw well outside the hash marks.  I don’t know the details of why these guys declined the Ravens, but Lamar has limitations.  That speed will run out someday.  He needs to improve like Allen did the last three years.  
 

Maybe Roman is vanilla, maybe Jackson hit his ceiling, maybe it’s nothing.  I don’t know.  I just haven’t seen improvement out of the QB in three years.  I’m happy for his success, and I don’t have an issue with the Ravens.  I’ve always respected Harbaugh as a coach.