QCity Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 If Terry announces that his wife will be more involved with football operations, then you can panic. 2
T master Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 Every season is a new one as i have heard reference made to by the players that McD coaches it isn't a given that the cards will fall a certain way the Sabres have the talent to compete but coaching and as McD says the process of getting there needs to be laid down and it starts at the top . Beane has been masterful at covering all the bases at least it seems that way i don't keep up as much with the Sabres but i believe they don't yet have the right fit from the top down to get every one pulling in the same direction . If they had some one that has a proven track record rather than a soccer coach to lead them i believe their W/L record could be much different but until the Pegs find "The Man" to lead them they could stay where they are at and continue to climb a very long up hill battle . Go Bills- GO Sabres ...
Kwai San Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 12 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said: Sorry, I should have been more clear. Let's say a decade. 84-85 was the pits. Also, the Sabres have sucked for going on 15 years. While the Bills playoff drought lasted a long time, they weren't perennially bad like the Sabres. Are you not referring to 3 closer to 4 decades ago????
JMF2006 Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 The lessons are 1) Your core needs to be developed within the organization 2)You don't hire first time GM's to do a rebuild 3) You never hire a soccer guy to coach(especially one named Freddy Kruger) 4)Signing free agent goalies is hit or miss and mostly miss if he was that good he wouldn't be an FA (except Bob in FLA) trade for the guy you really like 5)The morale and confidence is shot on the Sabres This is so unlikely to happen with the Bills its almost laughable....short of a plane crash this team is going to good to great for while. 1
Greg S Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 14 hours ago, IronyAbounds said: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-that-could-go-wrong-for-the-buffalo-sabres-has-gone-wrong/?ex_cid=538twitter No, this isn't a post about the Sabres, per se, it is the cautionary tale for the Bills. As the Sabres' horrendous season starkly demonstrates, improvement and optimistic signs of growth in one season do automatically translate to continued improvement and growth in the next. Everyone expected the Sabres to be better this year, but as the article points out a multitude of factors, some random, others not, obliterated the hoped for playoff push. Similarly, the reasonable expectation is that the Bills will be better this year and could easily be Super Bowl contenders. Yet, all it might take is a single injury (e.g., Allen) and the best laid plans are demolished. Covid could also continue to have some effect on the season. You always have to have an eye on the future in the NFL or any sport, but it is also important to seize every opportunity to win now (which is why the KC loss was hard to stomach). It's a difficult balancing act, and so far Beane seems to have done a good job. I'm very hopeful for 2021, but fingers crossed that the Sabres' experience won't be repeated by the Bills. The Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 10 years or so. The Bills have made it in 3 of the last 4 seasons and appear to be getting better. The Bills have a solid management team with Beane and McDermott. The Sabres do not. You can't compare the two organizations. 2
John Gianelli Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 15 hours ago, IronyAbounds said: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-that-could-go-wrong-for-the-buffalo-sabres-has-gone-wrong/?ex_cid=538twitter No, this isn't a post about the Sabres, per se, it is the cautionary tale for the Bills. As the Sabres' horrendous season starkly demonstrates, improvement and optimistic signs of growth in one season do automatically translate to continued improvement and growth in the next. Everyone expected the Sabres to be better this year, but as the article points out a multitude of factors, some random, others not, obliterated the hoped for playoff push. Similarly, the reasonable expectation is that the Bills will be better this year and could easily be Super Bowl contenders. Yet, all it might take is a single injury (e.g., Allen) and the best laid plans are demolished. Covid could also continue to have some effect on the season. You always have to have an eye on the future in the NFL or any sport, but it is also important to seize every opportunity to win now (which is why the KC loss was hard to stomach). It's a difficult balancing act, and so far Beane seems to have done a good job. I'm very hopeful for 2021, but fingers crossed that the Sabres' experience won't be repeated by the Bills. Am I reading this wrong, or did you instead mean to say "do not automatically translate"?
Kwai San Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: You’ve got it all figured out and all you had to do was use sweeping generalizations. Currently working in a small family run organization I can FULLY attest to what was said by @Coach Tuesday. They, family run businesses have a level of suckatude that is unlike anything I have see while working in the corporate world. You really have to live it to believe it. If you have not lived it you wouldn't couldn't understand it and would be very blasé about it. Like you are being.......walk a mile in the shoes before you diss it. Edited March 25, 2021 by Kwai San
North Buffalo Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 Sabres have so many issues thru to ownership. There is talent but not sure it meshes well. Player development has sucked for a decade. Talent e v a l has sucked... scouting department decimated and then we get to coaches oof and player usage. Granato seems ok.. goalies are finally percolating but still a ways off but what a shiite show.
Greg S Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Similar to Dolan and the Knicks and Rangers. Guy is clueless about hockey so he lets the hockey people run the show and they are highly successful.... he thinks he knows basketball and the Knicks have been a laughing stock for years(although now finally are respectable). Rangers started play in 1926. In 95 years they have only 4 Stanley Cups(worst among all original 6 teams) and 3 of those were won before expansion. So 1 Cup in 95 years post expansion. Their coach David Quinn is in his 3rd year and they still haven't made the playoffs. They will probably miss again this year. Rangers fans think they have a Yankees history and tradition when in reality they are more like the Jets/Mets. Don't know where you are getting "highly successful" from. 1
Mr. WEO Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 16 hours ago, IronyAbounds said: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-that-could-go-wrong-for-the-buffalo-sabres-has-gone-wrong/?ex_cid=538twitter No, this isn't a post about the Sabres, per se, it is the cautionary tale for the Bills. As the Sabres' horrendous season starkly demonstrates, improvement and optimistic signs of growth in one season do automatically translate to continued improvement and growth in the next. Everyone expected the Sabres to be better this year, but as the article points out a multitude of factors, some random, others not, obliterated the hoped for playoff push. Similarly, the reasonable expectation is that the Bills will be better this year and could easily be Super Bowl contenders. Yet, all it might take is a single injury (e.g., Allen) and the best laid plans are demolished. Covid could also continue to have some effect on the season. You always have to have an eye on the future in the NFL or any sport, but it is also important to seize every opportunity to win now (which is why the KC loss was hard to stomach). It's a difficult balancing act, and so far Beane seems to have done a good job. I'm very hopeful for 2021, but fingers crossed that the Sabres' experience won't be repeated by the Bills. Come on...it's been 10 years of this. It's been a dysfunctional mess for a decade. It isn't about a key guy getting injured. This makes no sense.
Nuncha Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) Pegula said the Sabres would win "cups" when he took over as owner. Maybe he meant protective cups? Edited March 25, 2021 by Azucho98
BillsVet Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 10 hours ago, ScottLaw said: You’d think the Pegulas would be more self aware that they are ***** clueless when it comes to sports..... I’d expect the Bills to be down for a significant amount of time if things ever go south with McBeane and the Pegulas decide to ever let them go.... Kim to me seems to be the Marie Antoinette in all of this, especially since she assumed the presidency for both teams. I never thought that when Terry was spending big dollars 8-9 years ago on the Sabres that Kim was as concerned about the financial health of the team because they hadn't yet spent on the Bills. The Sabres were Terry's toy and he had money. They maintained the lifestyle. Fast forward to today and they were losing a reported 40-60M per season with the Sabres even before the pandemic. Only now, they have a massive acquisition with the Bills that doesn't afford them the flexibility with the Sabres as they previously had. I think Kim loves the lifestyle of being a billionaire and insists that can never change, hence the power-point slide presented last year. They are clueless, but unlike a publicly traded company there's no one to hold them accountable. Even local media aside from a few individuals won't do it because the Pegula's have silenced some critics through denying access to the team. And then Kim made the statements about being misled by the NHL about hiring executives and how they knew more than the fans. It's a big ego thing and there's nothing more destructive in this world than people with that issue who can't live in reality. And when you're billionaires you don't have to live in the real world. You can buy your way out of problems...except as owners of a moribund hockey team. 4
BADOLBILZ Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Buftex said: This is the second time I have seen this posted in recent days... I respect Hamilton as a an observer of the Sabres...but how the ***** would he know that the Pegula's "regret" giving Beane and McDermott as much authority as they have? Did either of the Pegulas' tell him this? He simply says "he knows for a fact". That + his earned respect as a beat reporter(a job he risks with criticism of the team) + actually watching The Pegula's micromanage the Sabres into the worst franchise in sports = form your own opinion.
Greg S Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I was more so referring to recent history under Dolan. I mean they went to the playoffs like 11 of 12 years with a SC appearance within the last decade plus. That's a pretty damn good successful run.... even for hockey standards....nobody is the Yankees. And they are no where near the Mets/Jets misery. And they went to the playoffs in the 2019-2020 season. Your response just sounds bitter. Not bitter just stating facts. Last year's "playoffs" that you refer to was the qualifier round. That wasn't Rd 1. Teams had played anywhere between 67-70 games before everything got shut down. Since they couldn't finish the regular season the league created qualifier rounds to make it as fair as possible to see who makes it in. For example the Isles beat Florida in the qualifier round then faced the Caps in Rd 1, Flyers in Rd 2, before losing to the Lightning in the ECF. Like I said the Rangers haven't made the playoffs during Quinn's 3 years as HC. One Cup post expansion and 4 overall in 95 years definitely puts them in Jets/Mets territory.
LabattBlue Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) They can't even compete for a playoff spot over the last decade in a league where half the teams make the playoffs each year. A Sabres team that is challenging for the Cup is so far off in the distance, it's not visible without a telescope. Sad times for Sabres fans. They have wrecked this franchise. Edited March 25, 2021 by BTB
zow2 Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 It's almost as if the Pegulas have done every single thing wrong with the Sabres over the course of a decade to lead to this. Maybe the most non-competitive NHL club since the early Cleveland Barons or KC Scouts. They were only marginally better with Eichel and Ullmark but still league bottom feeders. I would trade Eichel and as many of the core as possible,,,,get a goalie and retool the entire roster. I'd only keep Reinhart, Cozens, Ullmark and McCabe. Everyone else should be traded. Ideally the Pegula's would put the team up for sale too. They have proven they suck as hockey owners. They've ruined a once proud franchise. 1
oldmanfan Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 The Sabres need to find a HC in hockey like they have in McD for the Bills. They need a guy with a specific and detailed plan on how to build a consistent winner, and then either make sure he's in sync with Adams or, if not, let the new HC bring in his own GM that he knows he can work with. Then the new HC and GM need to make it clear what their expectations are, and have the freedom to move guys out that do not want to buy in. And from looking at this roster that's plenty of players, starting with their captain. You need guys with grit who are all about hockey; Eichel is not that and you cannot have as your captain a guy who pouts all the time. Kruger may not have been the greatest HC, but I have watched the Sabres since 1970 (and the Bisons before that), and I have never seen a group of weaker, disinterested players as I do now. Keep a couple guys like Cozens who haven't been tainted yet, get guys with guts and heart to go with him, and you'll start winning again (oh, and Kevin, a goaile - you haven't had a decent one since Miller) It is fashionable I know to talk about bringing in a President of Hockey, who then picks the HC and GM and such. I've never been a fan of such moves. Sometimes it works like with Lou L, but many times it doesn't and just adds another administrative layer. People always talk about how the team has been cursed since LaFontaine left so quickly as proof of ownership dysfunction, but he did the same thing with the Islanders. Maybe Patty isn't suited for such a role. Again, I look at the Bills as an example. A lot of people wanted Polian brought in when they got rid of Ryan and such. But when you have the right coach and GM in sync, I don't think you need anyone else. As for the owners, guess what? They're the owners and they get to do what they want. But look at what they've done. They've tried experienced coaches, the new up and comers, recycled ex-Sabres coaches. They've tried experienced GMs (kept Darcy too long), then up and coming GMs from winning organizations. Nothing has worked. They've looked at numerous iterations of what supposedly are successful approaches, and they simply have not worked. What they should do, and haven't done, is the same thing as they did getting McD and Beane: listen to experienced voices. The NFL has the committee that recommends HC candidates with a lot of really good football minds serving on that committee; they put McD on that short list and Terry had the sense to pick him and give him the authority he demanded. The NHL doesn't have that formal structure as I understand it, but Terry and Kim should get about 5-10 really respected names and ask them to review their organization, and make some recommendations. Rick Dudley is 20 minutes away; invite him in to consult. And then listen to them. I don't think they want the Sabres to be this bad - what owner would want their team to be this horrible knowing what it does to ticket sales , merchandising, etc.? It lowers your franchise value; no owner wants that. If they did that, and then decided to say to hell with you, we're doing it our way, I would be right with everyone else here and yell about them destroying a proud franchise. Last thing. People talk about them selling the Sabres with the hope of a new owner making a difference. You always think the grass is greener till you get to the other pasture and find out it isn't. I don't say this worrying about whether a new owner would move the franchise; any one with an ounce of sense including the NHL front offices and the other owners know that Buffalo is a hotbed for hockey and would not want to ever see the Sabres move. And Terry loves his hockey so I can't see him ever selling. But it is time for the Pegulas to get help identifying the right guys to lead them going forward, and if that means swallowing their pride to do so, so be it. They did so with the Bills, and look how well it's worked. 1 2
Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 Agree with the premise of the article. 1. The Sabres don't draft well. None of their picks end up being that good - Ristolainen, Mittelstadt, Nylander. How long did we hear about Justin Bailey, Brendan Guhle? Never did anything. 2. The Sabres get themselves into horrible deals - Matt Moulson, Larsson, Okposo, Gionta, Bogosian 3. They were like the Bills, they love old minded Coaches and GMs. They love the Phil Housley's and Ralph Krueger's who talk about gritty goals, and checking, and defense. The last GM they had sat there are did nothing for 3 years in Botterill. Their GM before was Tim Murray, at least he tried to bring in SKILL. We love guys like Cody Eakin now. 1
Nextmanup Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 Just now, oldmanfan said: The Sabres need to find a HC in hockey like they have in McD for the Bills. They need a guy with a specific and detailed plan on how to build a consistent winner, and then either make sure he's in sync with Adams or, if not, let the new HC bring in his own GM that he knows he can work with. Then the new HC and GM need to make it clear what their expectations are, and have the freedom to move guys out that do not want to buy in. And from looking at this roster that's plenty of players, starting with their captain. You need guys with grit who are all about hockey; Eichel is not that and you cannot have as your captain a guy who pouts all the time. Kruger may not have been the greatest HC, but I have watched the Sabres since 1970 (and the Bisons before that), and I have never seen a group of weaker, disinterested players as I do now. Keep a couple guys like Cozens who haven't been tainted yet, get guys with guts and heart to go with him, and you'll start winning again (oh, and Kevin, a goaile - you haven't had a decent one since Miller) It is fashionable I know to talk about bringing in a President of Hockey, who then picks the HC and GM and such. I've never been a fan of such moves. Sometimes it works like with Lou L, but many times it doesn't and just adds another administrative layer. People always talk about how the team has been cursed since LaFontaine left so quickly as proof of ownership dysfunction, but he did the same thing with the Islanders. Maybe Patty isn't suited for such a role. Again, I look at the Bills as an example. A lot of people wanted Polian brought in when they got rid of Ryan and such. But when you have the right coach and GM in sync, I don't think you need anyone else. As for the owners, guess what? They're the owners and they get to do what they want. But look at what they've done. They've tried experienced coaches, the new up and comers, recycled ex-Sabres coaches. They've tried experienced GMs (kept Darcy too long), then up and coming GMs from winning organizations. Nothing has worked. They've looked at numerous iterations of what supposedly are successful approaches, and they simply have not worked. What they should do, and haven't done, is the same thing as they did getting McD and Beane: listen to experienced voices. The NFL has the committee that recommends HC candidates with a lot of really good football minds serving on that committee; they put McD on that short list and Terry had the sense to pick him and give him the authority he demanded. The NHL doesn't have that formal structure as I understand it, but Terry and Kim should get about 5-10 really respected names and ask them to review their organization, and make some recommendations. Rick Dudley is 20 minutes away; invite him in to consult. And then listen to them. I don't think they want the Sabres to be this bad - what owner would want their team to be this horrible knowing what it does to ticket sales , merchandising, etc.? It lowers your franchise value; no owner wants that. If they did that, and then decided to say to hell with you, we're doing it our way, I would be right with everyone else here and yell about them destroying a proud franchise. Last thing. People talk about them selling the Sabres with the hope of a new owner making a difference. You always think the grass is greener till you get to the other pasture and find out it isn't. I don't say this worrying about whether a new owner would move the franchise; any one with an ounce of sense including the NHL front offices and the other owners know that Buffalo is a hotbed for hockey and would not want to ever see the Sabres move. And Terry loves his hockey so I can't see him ever selling. But it is time for the Pegulas to get help identifying the right guys to lead them going forward, and if that means swallowing their pride to do so, so be it. They did so with the Bills, and look how well it's worked. The Sabres have brought in a number of individuals with a creative vision for how it's supposed to work. The problem is the Pegulas constantly meddle with the process, and then fire the administration long before it has a chance to bring its vision to life. I am not defending *any* of the past administrations here, I didn't like any of them at the time, but if ownership is going to behave in this manner, you will only have a lot more losing for many years to come. The Sabres are now what the Bills were for the last 15 to 20 years of Ralph Wilson's life: a complete mess and it is one that is not going to get cleaned up until: 1) ownership changes or 2) ownership has an epiphany and completely re-invents how it operates. I personally am hoping for Pegula to sell the team and focus on the Bills. It's the easiest path to success. 2
oldmanfan Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: The Sabres have brought in a number of individuals with a creative vision for how it's supposed to work. The problem is the Pegulas constantly meddle with the process, and then fire the administration long before it has a chance to bring its vision to life. I am not defending *any* of the past administrations here, I didn't like any of them at the time, but if ownership is going to behave in this manner, you will only have a lot more losing for many years to come. The Sabres are now what the Bills were for the last 15 to 20 years of Ralph Wilson's life: a complete mess and it is one that is not going to get cleaned up until: 1) ownership changes or 2) ownership has an epiphany and completely re-invents how it operates. I personally am hoping for Pegula to sell the team and focus on the Bills. It's the easiest path to success. I would say they need to adopt the same strategy with the Sabres that they've used with the Bills.
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