wagne591 Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 I was thinking about this a lot lately and I have come to this conclusion. When Beane signed Butler and Jefferson for the D-line last year he did that counting on Lotulelei (6'2" 315) to play all year. So I give him a pass on how poor our pass rush was last year. Star being out not only effected our pass rush IMO but it also didn't help in the development of Oliver either. I think with Star coming back this season it will free up some more guys to rush the passer because he commands a double team most of the time and last year noone on our line commanded one. So I think you will see some improvements next year with the guys we have....also not saying we wont draft an edge rusher or another D tackle to help either. In fact now would be a good time to draft another one to mirror Star as he gets older and I don't think he will be around much longer. Here are some of my picks... Marvin Wilson FSU 6'3 319 Tyler Shelvin LSU 6'3" 346 Bobby Brown III TAM 6'3" 325 Naquan Jones MSU 6'4" 338 All guys that played the 1-tech in college and all can play stuff the run. All should be available in the second round or later (might have to move up to get a couple in the second). I just think we need to start looking for backups to learn from the guys getting older. It is ok for guys to sit a year or get the left over snaps. Thoughts... 7
Boxcar Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 My thought is that many people are grossly overstating how bad the defense was last year. It was above average and our two top LBs were injured most of the season. 11 1 6
TheBeaneBandit Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 I think finding a rookie 1tech who can collapse the pocket is just as important as finding an edge rusher. Pressure up the middle makes the greatest QBs of all time look average or even have bad games. 9 1 2
Doc Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 I agree that the Bills were counting on Star when they signed everyone only to see him opt-out on the cusp of training camp. And while he should help the defense, he'll likely be gone after the year. A replacement needs to be found sooner rather than later. 2 1
JGMcD2 Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, Boxcar said: My thought is that many people are grossly overstating how bad the defense was last year. It was above average and our two top LBs were injured most of the season. This is very true. VERY true and very well said. We sorely need a guy who can cover TE. The Buffalo Nickel so to speak... I think the front office has known that for awhile now. I’m actually upset/surprised they took Epenesa over Chinn last year. I really thought that they were going to go with Dugger had he been there or Chinn. I suppose they didn’t foresee Epenesa being available.
Mr. WEO Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 Wow. So much being put on Star, a situational player who chose not to play last year, coming in and having what would have to be a career year to live up to expectations. 2 2 3 1 2
Fan in Chicago Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 45 minutes ago, Boxcar said: My thought is that many people are grossly overstating how bad the defense was last year. It was above average and our two top LBs were injured most of the season. Statistically, perhaps you are correct. But they got man handled in the playoffs. The goal post has clearly shifted. Getting to the playoffs or AFCCG is no longer enough. 1 1
Fan in Chicago Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, Doc said: I agree that the Bills were counting on Star when they signed everyone only to see him opt-out on the cusp of training camp. And while he should help the defense, he'll likely be gone after the year. A replacement needs to be found sooner rather than later. Yep. Can't go into next season believing that Star was the sole missing piece. He may help but could turn up Friday, too light, too unmotivated or all of the above. 1 minute ago, Freddie's Dead said: What's a D A Pass? It's that thing opposing QBs complete cos our D doesn't get sufficient pressure 😁 1
Billschinatown Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 59 minutes ago, Boxcar said: My thought is that many people are grossly overstating how bad the defense was last year. It was above average and our two top LBs were injured most of the season. The Kansas game was pretty ***** bad. 3
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 52 minutes ago, wagne591 said: I was thinking about this a lot lately and I have come to this conclusion. When Beane signed Butler and Jefferson for the D-line last year he did that counting on Lotulelei (6'2" 315) to play all year. So I give him a pass on how poor our pass rush was last year. Star being out not only effected our pass rush IMO but it also didn't help in the development of Oliver either. I think with Star coming back this season it will free up some more guys to rush the passer because he commands a double team most of the time and last year noone on our line commanded one. So I think you will see some improvements next year with the guys we have....also not saying we wont draft an edge rusher or another D tackle to help either. In fact now would be a good time to draft another one to mirror Star as he gets older and I don't think he will be around much longer. Here are some of my picks... Marvin Wilson FSU 6'3 319 Tyler Shelvin LSU 6'3" 346 Bobby Brown III TAM 6'3" 325 Naquan Jones MSU 6'4" 338 All guys that played the 1-tech in college and all can play stuff the run. All should be available in the second round or later (might have to move up to get a couple in the second). I just think we need to start looking for backups to learn from the guys getting older. It is ok for guys to sit a year or get the left over snaps. Thoughts... The other thing that caused issues last year, going into training camp I was kind of happy that the Bills had very little turnover of their starting lineup from the year prior. For a season without mini camps and no pre-season, figured that would help them more than other teams. With a 13-3 record, maybe it did? The only new starters they had were Diggs and Klein. At the beginning of camp they still had the same O-line, (Spain was projected starter) DeMarco was back at fullback, same starters on the D-line and secondary. While overall 20 or 22 starters back was pretty good, but by the time week 1 rolled around, while all 4 starters were back on the D-line, it did have 3 new subs, plus Phillips missed most of 2019 and a rookie. Add to that as you stated Star opting out caused even more churn. Don't think they ever really found a true replacement for him and they ended up for the 1st half of the season playing musical chairs with the 1 technique. Eventually they settled on Butler, but he was far from perfect. Throw in that Murphy became a non-factor by the second half and you had a mess there. So do agree both with having Star back and pretty much no new faces will help. Will need an improvement from Addison though. Wonder if they will tweak the defense some to use Klein as 3rd LB more in passing down and let him just blitz from all over, but that means no 5th CB on the field or only 3 down lineman? Yeah agree with drafting Star's eventual replacement, but does worry me some to find a roster spot for him this year likely mean cutting either Phillips or Zimmer. While neither is a game changer, they still may be better than a 2nd/3rd round rookie. Maybe the answer is draft the guy, then someone step on his toe in the pre-season so they can hide him on IR all year or at least till late in the season if someone gets hurt. 1
Doc Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: The other thing that caused issues last year, going into training camp I was kind of happy that the Bills had very little turnover of their starting lineup from the year prior. For a season without mini camps and no pre-season, figured that would help them more than other teams. With a 13-3 record, maybe it did? The only new starters they had were Diggs and Klein. At the beginning of camp they still had the same O-line, (Spain was projected starter) DeMarco was back at fullback, same starters on the D-line and secondary. While overall 20 or 22 starters back was pretty good, but by the time week 1 rolled around, while all 4 starters were back on the D-line, it did have 3 new subs, plus Phillips missed most of 2019 and a rookie. Add to that as you stated Star opting out caused even more churn. Don't think they ever really found a true replacement for him and they ended up for the 1st half of the season playing musical chairs with the 1 technique. Eventually they settled on Butler, but he was far from perfect. Throw in that Murphy became a non-factor by the second half and you had a mess there. So do agree both with having Star back and pretty much no new faces will help. Will need an improvement from Addison though. Wonder if they will tweak the defense some to use Klein as 3rd LB more in passing down and let him just blitz from all over, but that means no 5th CB on the field or only 3 down lineman? Yeah agree with drafting Star's eventual replacement, but does worry me some to find a roster spot for him this year likely mean cutting either Phillips or Zimmer. While neither is a game changer, they still may be better than a 2nd/3rd round rookie. Maybe the answer is draft the guy, then someone step on his toe in the pre-season so they can hide him on IR all year or at least till late in the season if someone gets hurt. Let the best man win (a roster spot). The other(s) can go on the PS.
Boxcar Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, Billschinatown said: The Kansas game was pretty ***** bad. Yeah, judging a defense based on one game is not a very good idea. 29 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: Statistically, perhaps you are correct. But they got man handled in the playoffs. The goal post has clearly shifted. Getting to the playoffs or AFCCG is no longer enough. Does KC need to vastly improve on offense after scoring 0 touchdowns in the SB? No. They don't. I honestly can't believe the number of people who judge an entire defense based on one game, especially a game that directly followed them holding the Ravens to 3 points. 3
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: Let the best man win (a roster spot). The other(s) can go on the PS. Yeah but you're not going to slip a 2nd or 3rd rounder to the PS. Not sure either if Phillips, Zimmer, or Johnson would have any PS eligibility left assuming we are going back to the old PS rules which not sure I heard what the plans are around that? Even if they are eligible, not sure they could slip through either without getting claimed. The Bills have 7 draft picks this year, assuming 5 make the roster, not sure they have five slots for them that won't involve releasing a player who by week 1 is considerably better than a rookie. Can a spot on O-Line (maybe two) LB,CB, S, Other positions they have pretty strong backups.
Doc Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Yeah but you're not going to slip a 2nd or 3rd rounder to the PS. Not sure either if Phillips, Zimmer, or Johnson would have any PS eligibility left assuming we are going back to the old PS rules which not sure I heard what the plans are around that? Even if they are eligible, not sure they could slip through either without getting claimed. The Bills have 7 draft picks this year, assuming 5 make the roster, not sure they have five slots for them that won't involve releasing a player who by week 1 is considerably better than a rookie. Can a spot on O-Line (maybe two) LB,CB, S, Other positions they have pretty strong backups. I wasn't talking about PS'ing the 2nd or 3rd round pick. And I don't think they're changing the PS rules back.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: I wasn't talking about PS'ing the 2nd or 3rd round pick. And I don't think they're changing the PS rules back. Understand, but then who are you talking about? My response was just stating that unlikely you'll get anyone to the PS from last years D line. While not that good, they all were good enough to not pass thru.
glazeduck Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 I often find myself asking the wife to give the D a pass 🤣 In all seriousness... I’m sure not having Star did affect things, to some degree, but one thing I feel very confident in, it’s put up or shut up time for Oliver. Our defense needs him to take a step (wish I could’ve said “another” but I don’t feel like he’s developed much, as of yet.) Hopefully Star can absorb some OL attention and free Big Ed up, but that guy’s running out i of excuses. Defensive performance is all interconnected — DL play affects DB and LB play, etc., so hopefully getting him back, hopefully with a little added help through FA or the draft, will help everywhere.
Saxum Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, wagne591 said: I was thinking about this a lot lately and I have come to this conclusion. When Beane signed Butler and Jefferson for the D-line last year he did that counting on Lotulelei (6'2" 315) to play all year. So I give him a pass on how poor our pass rush was last year. Star being out not only effected our pass rush IMO but it also didn't help in the development of Oliver either. Thoughts... Shouldn't GM be able to look into the future like the Circle of Nostradamus posters?
Doc Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Understand, but then who are you talking about? My response was just stating that unlikely you'll get anyone to the PS from last years D line. While not that good, they all were good enough to not pass thru. If the rookie looks promising, it's the chance you take. Sometimes you have to let good players go to keep better ones. 1
glazeduck Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 Just now, ScottLaw said: I think you mean Edmunds... Nope. Edmunds struggled this year, no question, but he’s not been Oliver-bad, ever, in my opinion. Oliver was the higher draft pick and has done far less in his time here.
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