BillStime Posted March 21, 2021 Posted March 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: You were doing sooooo well and then you went and mentioned the GOP as the only bad actor in this. Dude take your partisan blinders off and see that both sides of the aisle have led us down a wrong path just to keep their phony baloney jobs. So are you saying the source is the countries where they are coming from? That's only part of the source of the issue. The issue is the American way of life. They come here for a slice of the American dream pie. Well that's not going away so the other source is also here in the US. We have to make it very difficult to hire and maintain an illegal workforce. We have to STOP with these high minimum wage mandates that make a black market (i.e illegals) work force thrive. We have to put some teeth into our laws and punish companies and industries (like the one i was deep in for 25 years....restaurants) who hire illegals. And the last part of the source lays smack dab in the middle of both of these. Our porous border. That is why many of us are adamant about fixing it. Is it a wall? Is it more patrolling. Is it drones with laser beams (my favorite)? It's a combination of all. But an open border to the "American Dream" is a very very very dumb idea. So to recap we need to help drive up their economies and my idea is make Mexico and Central America centers for manufacturing. We have to stop the incentives for companies to hire them and we have to secure the border. And lastly we have to be #######s!! STOP being MR/Mrs nice guy/gal and wanting to altruistically take care of the world. There is a word politicians have a hard time of saying and it fits here. Just say NO!! Exactly - but until we help improve the issues at the source - they will find a way into our country - no matter what barrier, drone, or American you put in the way. Bandaids will never entirely fix these issues.
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2021 Posted March 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, BillStime said: Exactly - but until we help improve the issues at the source - they will find a way into our country - no matter what barrier, drone, or American you put in the way. Bandaids will never entirely fix these issues. Devil's advocate. We know corruption runs rampant in many of the governments south of the border. We can't control or fix their ***** so why spend the money and time trying to get rid of the corruption. Then what? Focus on the issues we control. Our lack of enforcement of the immigration laws we have in place, and our porous border. And of course there will always be a way in. We're looking to make it more difficult for them to come. Reduce the incentives and secure the border. Question. Do you think offering benefits such as free college and healthcare for all is a good idea without a properly secured border?
Devilmann Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 We can’t fix the “source”. We can only fix what we can control which is the border itself. Biden is pissing on us all and saying it’s just rain. 1
SoCal Deek Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, BillStime said: Exactly - but until we help improve the issues at the source - they will find a way into our country - no matter what barrier, drone, or American you put in the way. Bandaids will never entirely fix these issues. Sure! Let's just send them money. I'm sure that'll work. (Oh wait....we've been doing that for decades.)
BillStime Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chef Jim said: Devil's advocate. We know corruption runs rampant in many of the governments south of the border. We can't control or fix their ***** so why spend the money and time trying to get rid of the corruption. Then what? Focus on the issues we control. Our lack of enforcement of the immigration laws we have in place, and our porous border. And of course there will always be a way in. We're looking to make it more difficult for them to come. Reduce the incentives and secure the border. Question. Do you think offering benefits such as free college and healthcare for all is a good idea without a properly secured border? We have a humanitarian crisis in Central America - we have no choice but to help improve those conditions or we will never resolve this complex issue. In the meantime, we have to enforce the laws we already have and FIND COMMON GROUND to move beyond the stalemate that has challenged both parties for years. No, we won't be able to rid all corruption - heck, we can't even rid it in our own country. And no, undocumented immigrants should not be afforded free college. With that said, I can't imagine being so inhumane not to care for someone if they show up at the ER for help. Edited March 22, 2021 by BillStime
Chef Jim Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, BillStime said: We have a humanitarian crisis in Central America - we have no choice but to help improve those conditions or we will never resolve this complex issue. In the meantime, we have to enforce the laws we already have and FIND COMMON GROUND to move beyond the stalemate that has challenged both parties for years. No, we won't be able to rid all corruption - heck, we can't even rid it in our own country. And no, undocumented immigrants should not be afforded free college. With that said, I can't imagine being so inhumane not to care for someone if they show up at the ER for help. Not my job to fix their problem. We’ve spent generations of lives and tons of treasure trying to do that. It is nearly impossible to fix and the cost is likely prohibitive. We shut it down and fix our own problems. You posted an article about homelessness in the US. Of course you tied Trump to the story. 🙄. We can’t even fix our own shitholes like LA and Oakland but you want to do fix their problems? Nope. So how do THEY fix it? Give them a taste of capitalism. My manufacturing idea. But that comes from private enterprise not my tax dollars. They would rather stay in their home countries. They are proud of their heritage. Why so many live here, make $$, ship it home and follow it back after a few years. Greenbacks go a long way there. So make the US irrelevant. Make them want to stay there. But shut the border down in the meantime. See....NOW you’re posting like an adult. My work is done here. 😉 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 7 hours ago, Chef Jim said: Not my job to fix their problem. We’ve spent generations of lives and tons of treasure trying to do that. It is nearly impossible to fix and the cost is likely prohibitive. We shut it down and fix our own problems. You posted an article about homelessness in the US. Of course you tied Trump to the story. 🙄. We can’t even fix our own shitholes like LA and Oakland but you want to do fix their problems? Nope. So how do THEY fix it? Give them a taste of capitalism. My manufacturing idea. But that comes from private enterprise not my tax dollars. They would rather stay in their home countries. They are proud of their heritage. Why so many live here, make $$, ship it home and follow it back after a few years. Greenbacks go a long way there. So make the US irrelevant. Make them want to stay there. But shut the border down in the meantime. See....NOW you’re posting like an adult. My work is done here. 😉 Read your posts and you hit on a lot of the key concepts in play here. The concept of "get your own house in order" before you start trying to fix everything is appropriate. My view of the immigration issues is we got no plan along with no way to pay for any of it. If anyone hasn't been paying attention the US government biggest debtor in the history of civilization with no way to pay any of it back. Sure you might want to "help" people but your flat broke busted. So maybe help yourself first? We have more than enough problems, do we need import more problems? But given the government is going to rack up debts until they can't do it anymore, I'd like for starters from the new administration some clear and consistent articulation of the key objectives of America's immigration policy. Right now it looks like the plan is to flood the country with "asylum seekers" from Central America and deal with the consequences later. Is the only goal a humanitarian effort to "help" people? That itself generates a lot of other policy questions such as which people do you decide to help and in what manner? What are the costs and consequences of such a policy. Looking at the failure in handling the surge in asylum seekers it seems the administration ignored, either by design or incompetence, the issues and conditions that would be generated by their "all welcome" signal. It was obvious to even the uninformed that the ability of the system from capacity and capability standpoint would be overwhelmed by the influx of people. To the point here. What's needed is a systemic solution to immigration issues, both legal and illegal (or documented and undocumented if you prefer) that balances humanitarian needs along with economic, social, and border security objectives. A comprehensive and complete plan that addresses the concerns and needs of all parties. Accomplishing that is difficult under the best circumstances but given the extreme polarization of politics of the present it seems nearly impossible. Unfortunately, neither the Democrats or Republicans are capable of reaching that kind of solution. When you're engaged in a "winner take all" contest there's not much room for compromise and cooperation. My first suggestion: get new leaders.
SoCal Deek Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Read your posts and you hit on a lot of the key concepts in play here. The concept of "get your own house in order" before you start trying to fix everything is appropriate. My view of the immigration issues is we got no plan along with no way to pay for any of it. If anyone hasn't been paying attention the US government biggest debtor in the history of civilization with no way to pay any of it back. Sure you might want to "help" people but your flat broke busted. So maybe help yourself first? We have more than enough problems, do we need import more problems? But given the government is going to rack up debts until they can't do it anymore, I'd like for starters from the new administration some clear and consistent articulation of the key objectives of America's immigration policy. Right now it looks like the plan is to flood the country with "asylum seekers" from Central America and deal with the consequences later. Is the only goal a humanitarian effort to "help" people? That itself generates a lot of other policy questions such as which people do you decide to help and in what manner? What are the costs and consequences of such a policy. Looking at the failure in handling the surge in asylum seekers it seems the administration ignored, either by design or incompetence, the issues and conditions that would be generated by their "all welcome" signal. It was obvious to even the uninformed that the ability of the system from capacity and capability standpoint would be overwhelmed by the influx of people. To the point here. What's needed is a systemic solution to immigration issues, both legal and illegal (or documented and undocumented if you prefer) that balances humanitarian needs along with economic, social, and border security objectives. A comprehensive and complete plan that addresses the concerns and needs of all parties. Accomplishing that is difficult under the best circumstances but given the extreme polarization of politics of the present it seems nearly impossible. Unfortunately, neither the Democrats or Republicans are capable of reaching that kind of solution. When you're engaged in a "winner take all" contest there's not much room for compromise and cooperation. My first suggestion: get new leaders. That’s a lot of words but it misses the main point. Nobody has a problem with legal immigration. Nobody. The problem is with the disrespectful treatment of our sovereignty by these so called migrants, ‘asylum seekers’ (cough), and whatever else you want to call them. Our government has a sworn duty to control our borders! You don’t just open the door and let everyone into the theater because they REALLY want to see the movie! Edited March 22, 2021 by SoCal Deek 1
Chef Jim Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 5 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Read your posts and you hit on a lot of the key concepts in play here. The concept of "get your own house in order" before you start trying to fix everything is appropriate. My view of the immigration issues is we got no plan along with no way to pay for any of it. If anyone hasn't been paying attention the US government biggest debtor in the history of civilization with no way to pay any of it back. Sure you might want to "help" people but your flat broke busted. So maybe help yourself first? We have more than enough problems, do we need import more problems? But given the government is going to rack up debts until they can't do it anymore, I'd like for starters from the new administration some clear and consistent articulation of the key objectives of America's immigration policy. Right now it looks like the plan is to flood the country with "asylum seekers" from Central America and deal with the consequences later. Is the only goal a humanitarian effort to "help" people? That itself generates a lot of other policy questions such as which people do you decide to help and in what manner? What are the costs and consequences of such a policy. Looking at the failure in handling the surge in asylum seekers it seems the administration ignored, either by design or incompetence, the issues and conditions that would be generated by their "all welcome" signal. It was obvious to even the uninformed that the ability of the system from capacity and capability standpoint would be overwhelmed by the influx of people. To the point here. What's needed is a systemic solution to immigration issues, both legal and illegal (or documented and undocumented if you prefer) that balances humanitarian needs along with economic, social, and border security objectives. A comprehensive and complete plan that addresses the concerns and needs of all parties. Accomplishing that is difficult under the best circumstances but given the extreme polarization of politics of the present it seems nearly impossible. Unfortunately, neither the Democrats or Republicans are capable of reaching that kind of solution. When you're engaged in a "winner take all" contest there's not much room for compromise and cooperation. My first suggestion: get new leaders. Many on the Right are saying the left want the open border is for more Democratic voters. While there may be some truth to this I think the real issue is they truly want to help people and are deathly afraid of being called racist/xenophobe for not helping. Sometimes the best answer to a problem is "sorry son...you're on your own!"
Doc Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: Many on the Right are saying the left want the open border is for more Democratic voters. While there may be some truth to this I think the real issue is they truly want to help people and are deathly afraid of being called racist/xenophobe for not helping. Sometimes the best answer to a problem is "sorry son...you're on your own!" It's because they want new voters and because they want to do the opposite of what the Repubs want to do.
SoCal Deek Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Doc said: It's because they want new voters and because they want to do the opposite of what the Repubs want to do. It isn't complicated. It really isn't. They want to flip Texas. And once they do, there's zero chance of another Republican winning the White House for the next century. Edited March 22, 2021 by SoCal Deek 2
Chef Jim Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: It isn't complicated. It really isn't. They want to flip Texas. And once they do, there's zero chance of another Republican winning the White House for the next century. Regarding flipping TX. If the republicans could only figure out that Hispanic ideal align so much more with Conservatives than with Liberals values.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Regarding flipping TX. If the republicans could only figure out that Hispanic ideal align so much more with Conservatives than with Liberals values. Republicans really are dumb. Democrats own them on getting in the vote (ie harvesting) and they can’t capitalize on a predominantly devout Catholic demographic.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Doc said: So then, what's drawing Hispanics to Dems? 🚁 💵
Chef Jim Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Doc said: So then, what's drawing Hispanics to Dems? Marketing? If the Republicans can focus on the conservative nature instead of whatever it is they are selling they'd get the Hispanic (and black) votes in a landslide.
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