Royale with Cheese Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Just to let everyone know. We can't use the Patriots who extended Matthew Slater 3 times and won 3 Super Bowls. Fire Chan's does not let us use that example for whatever reason. So if he asks what winning team puts money in Special Teams....New England isn't allowed. 1 minute ago, ytownblofan said: Ok, so lets take the $ aspect out of it and look at purely roster numbers. 11 starters on offense 11 starters on defense So 22 total starters. Now, lets give each position a backup, we are at 44 players of 53. Add in kicker, LS, and Punter, 47. That leaves 6 players left on the 53. I'll even grant a 3rd qb. So 5 players left that are not starters or backups. What should those 5 players excel at in order to earn a roster spot? The easy and clear answer is special teams. Why roster 5 guys that are not going to see the field on O or D and have no value on teams? And this pretty much should end this thread. 1
FireChans Posted March 22, 2021 Author Posted March 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, ytownblofan said: Ok, so lets take the $ aspect out of it and look at purely roster numbers. 11 starters on offense 11 starters on defense So 22 total starters. Now, lets give each position a backup, we are at 44 players of 53. Add in kicker, LS, and Punter, 47. That leaves 6 players left on the 53. I'll even grant a 3rd qb. So 5 players left that are not starters or backups. What should those 5 players excel at in order to earn a roster spot? The easy and clear answer is special teams. Why roster 5 guys that are not going to see the field on O or D and have no value on teams? They should be developmental players. You want more Maurice Alexander and less Wyatt Teller. Mo is out of the league. Wyatt is an All-Pro. I’d take the All-Pro.
ytownblofan Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 Just now, FireChans said: They should be developmental players. You want more Maurice Alexander and less Wyatt Teller. Mo is out of the league. Wyatt is an All-Pro. I’d take the All-Pro. For every Wyatt Teller example, I can give you 5 players that never developed like we had hoped. Should we roster guys like Ed Wang over a guy that we know can make an immediate impact in special teams? Guys rarely go from marginal starter/backup to all pro caliber players. However, having a gunner that can routinely knock down punts or halt the opposing teams return game is extremely valuable.
GunnerBill Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 42 minutes ago, ytownblofan said: Why roster 5 guys that are not going to see the field on O or D and have no value on teams? And to be clear, the 2020 Bills only had 3.... Andre Roberts, Taiwan Jones and Tyler Matakevich. They were the only three guys on the roster to do nothing but special teams. By the end of the season Matakevich had seemingly moved himself up the linebacker depth chart and might no longer fit that description, but going into 2020 it was those three.
FireChans Posted March 22, 2021 Author Posted March 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, ytownblofan said: For every Wyatt Teller example, I can give you 5 players that never developed like we had hoped. Should we roster guys like Ed Wang over a guy that we know can make an immediate impact in special teams? Guys rarely go from marginal starter/backup to all pro caliber players. However, having a gunner that can routinely knock down punts or halt the opposing teams return game is extremely valuable. Yes bro. Because the impact on ST made by these “valuable players” is minimal. That’s the point of the whole topic.
ytownblofan Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, FireChans said: Yes bro. Because the impact on ST made by these “valuable players” is minimal. That’s the point of the whole topic. Yeah bro. Even if the impact is "minimal" its still more than the ZERO impact that a 3rd string player that has no chance of seeing the field has.
billsfan89 Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, FireChans said: They should be developmental players. You want more Maurice Alexander and less Wyatt Teller. Mo is out of the league. Wyatt is an All-Pro. I’d take the All-Pro. Wyatt wasn’t traded because they gave his spot to an ST player...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, FireChans said: Yes bro. Because the impact on ST made by these “valuable players” is minimal. That’s the point of the whole topic. How do you know it's minimal? What are you seeing on film? Film isn't broadcast view by the way. 1 hour ago, FireChans said: They should be developmental players. You want more Maurice Alexander and less Wyatt Teller. Mo is out of the league. Wyatt is an All-Pro. I’d take the All-Pro. WTF are you even talking about? Alexander has nothing to do with Teller. Teller was traded for a 5th and 6th round pick. That 6th round pick was Tyler Bass. I can't believe you're still fighting this like you make good points. You know who has been developed? Josh Allen, Dion Dawkins, Matt Milano, Tre White.... But they don't count I guess.
FireChans Posted March 22, 2021 Author Posted March 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, ytownblofan said: Yeah bro. Even if the impact is "minimal" its still more than the ZERO impact that a 3rd string player that has no chance of seeing the field has. Wyatt Teller would have zero impact. Now I know you’re trolling. 6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: How do you know it's minimal? What are you seeing on film? Film isn't broadcast view by the way. WTF are you even talking about? Alexander has nothing to do with Teller. Teller was traded for a 5th and 6th round pick. That 6th round pick was Tyler Bass. I can't believe you're still fighting this like you make good points. You know who has been developed? Josh Allen, Dion Dawkins, Matt Milano, Tre White.... But they don't count I guess. Mo Alexander made the team in 2019. Teller was shipped off in 2019. I would prefer the opposite. Y’all want the best punt protect team in football. I want All-Pros anchoring our offensive line. We are not the same.
Mat68 Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 They like Ford and Felicano. Thats why they traded Tellar. Hindsight that wasnt a great move. Every team keeps a few special teamers. Its not madden. You need guys with the right mindset and attitude to lead the unit. Johnson is a guy who is a developmental De and also a core special teamer. So you can have it both ways. 1 1
ytownblofan Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: Wyatt Teller would have zero impact. Now I know you’re trolling. Mo Alexander made the team in 2019. Teller was shipped off in 2019. I would prefer the opposite. Y’all want the best punt protect team in football. I want All-Pros anchoring our offensive line. We are not the same. You do realize Wyatt Teller wasn't that good when we traded him, right? When we traded him he looked marginal at best, and could barely crack the starting lineup. Nothing indicated that he would turn into an all-pro. If we knew he would be an all-pro, do you really think we would trade him? The answer is no. You act like the 3 or 4 ST only players that we roster are taking the place of pro-bowl players, when that isn't the case at all. Come on man, I get you're frustrated that maybe they didn't make the moves you wanted them to make. But take a moment and look at it objectively. They money they are spending on these core ST guys was not going to give them the ability to sign any top tier guys. They were going to be guys that ended up playing teams anyway. So why not retain guys that you know excel at the position and provide quality depth?
Royale with Cheese Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: Wyatt Teller would have zero impact. Now I know you’re trolling. Mo Alexander made the team in 2019. Teller was shipped off in 2019. I would prefer the opposite. Y’all want the best punt protect team in football. I want All-Pros anchoring our offensive line. We are not the same. If you're going to talk this stupid, then there's no reason to continue replying. 1
ColoradoBills Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 5 hours ago, FireChans said: In other words, STs contributed to ~20% of the total snaps we played. We waste cap space and roster spots on players that are dedicated STers With Andre Roberts gone "Dirty Red" will be the ST Captain. You got to agree that the Special Teams groups deserve a player working a good portion of his time filling that role. You just said it's 20% of the game. The only other dedicated ST'er is Jones who makes peanuts.
Royale with Cheese Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, ytownblofan said: You do realize Wyatt Teller wasn't that good when we traded him, right? When we traded him he looked marginal at best, and could barely crack the starting lineup. Nothing indicated that he would turn into an all-pro. If we knew he would be an all-pro, do you really think we would trade him? The answer is no. You act like the 3 or 4 ST only players that we roster are taking the place of pro-bowl players, when that isn't the case at all. Come on man, I get you're frustrated that maybe they didn't make the moves you wanted them to make. But take a moment and look at it objectively. They money they are spending on these core ST guys was not going to give them the ability to sign any top tier guys. They were going to be guys that ended up playing teams anyway. So why not retain guys that you know excel at the position and provide quality depth? The Rams traded Marcus Peters last year and kept 3rd string RB John Kelly. That means the Rams value a 3rd string RB and special teamer more than an All Pro corner. The Pats traded Chandler Jones but kept Matthew Slater. Therefore the Pats care more about a Special Teamer more than an All Pro pass rusher. You see how this works? Edited March 22, 2021 by Royale with Cheese 1
ytownblofan Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: The Rams traded Marcus Peters last year and kept 3rd string RB John Kelly. That means the Rams value a 3rd string RB and special teamer more than an All Pro running back. The Pats traded Chandler Jones but kept Matthew Slater. Therefore the Pats care more about a Special Teamer more than an All Pro pass rusher. You see how this works? Ahh that clears it up, thanks for the clarification 🤣
MJS Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 30 minutes ago, FireChans said: Wyatt Teller would have zero impact. Now I know you’re trolling. Mo Alexander made the team in 2019. Teller was shipped off in 2019. I would prefer the opposite. Y’all want the best punt protect team in football. I want All-Pros anchoring our offensive line. We are not the same. How deep are you going to dig this hole you are in?
Alphadawg7 Posted March 22, 2021 Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, FireChans said: Yes bro. Because the impact on ST made by these “valuable players” is minimal. That’s the point of the whole topic. No its not. The fact you think ST impact is minimal is comical to me. Especially watching terrible ST here in the past continuously give up good field position for easy scoring while consistently providing ourselves with terrible field position. This whole thread tells me you dont know nearly as much about the fundamentals of football like you want to portray. 56 minutes ago, MJS said: How deep are you going to dig this hole you are in? Very deep...its what he does.
Mr. K Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 How many year has Coach McClapper and Mr Beane deliver playoff appearances? How many years have they been here? If they wanted to have a roster player to hold the kick off on a windy day im down. Keep winning!
Captain Hindsight Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 22 hours ago, Mat68 said: They like Ford and Felicano. Thats why they traded Tellar. Hindsight that wasnt a great move. Every team keeps a few special teamers. Its not madden. You need guys with the right mindset and attitude to lead the unit. Johnson is a guy who is a developmental De and also a core special teamer. So you can have it both ways. They also had Quentin Spain at that point too, who they had just signed to a 3 year deal
The Frankish Reich Posted March 23, 2021 Posted March 23, 2021 On 3/18/2021 at 3:18 PM, FireChans said: This is lunacy. This is idiotic. Can someone point out what Super Bowl champion or hell, even recent contender, that dedicated this much money and effort to STers? It flies in the face of modern NFLdom. Rule changes have basically eliminated the return game. Why are we signing top end STers to prop up this phase, instead of dedicating more money to the other phases that actually matter? The ST coach’s job on a team that’s contending should be to coach up a bunch of cheap backups and late round draft picks into a decent unit. Not need dedicated gunners being signed to modest contracts. It’s upsetting to say the least. Hmm, allow me to rack my mind for, oh, about 2 seconds ... ... KC, with perennial HC candidate Dave Toub as Special Teams Coordinator for the last 17 seasons. I seem to remember them winning something recently, or maybe defeating some other really good team even more recently ...
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