Are you scared of the CAP?

[Big Turk]

I'm only scared of the big bad wolf.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Big Turk

[BruceVilanch]

I wish I had more hands, so I could give this post 4 thumbs down.

[Matt_In_NH]

3 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

As I read through the free agent threads here....a whole lot of talk about steep prices for guys (always that way this time of year) but what I notice is that the Bills fan base seems overly cap conscience.  

 

I am not very familiar with Bills spending history or how they work with the Cap....and I certainly don't know the Pegulas ideas on this or Beanes.....

 

My questions to you are:

 

1.  Is everything ALWAYS about the future?  Is there ever a thought about "now"?

2.  Do you see a team that has had the cap kill them and you don't want to do the same?  ...was that team the Bills at some point?

3.  Do you think the cap can be manipulated or do you believe that the piper that needs paid, is always right around the corner?

 

There are no wrong answers to these questions....everyone kind of has different ideas on how this should work or how things ought to go with spending and contracts.....just wondering what the community here has to say about it since you all, IN GENERAL....seem kind of skittish about spending money (having the Bills sign folks..I know it's not your money)  

 

Number 1, ever Bills fan I know cares about now.  The question is if you recklessly blow up the future for now.  Everyone has different feelings about how conservative to be about this.   But in general, here we are with a great young QB and opportunity to compete year in and year out for the next 15 years.

 

Number 2, yes  New Orleans multiple times in the last 10 years.....they have had a lot of success but no ultimate success in that timeframe.  Other teams too have gone all in and then had to blow it up.  Doesn't mean you should not "go all in" now but yes teams have been killed by the cap.   There are other examples.  The Bills went all in under Whaley/Rex with bad contracts and had to eat it bad in McDermott's second year.

 

Number 3:  Obviously the cap can be manipulated but in the words of Bills Polian "The cap does not forgive and the cap does not forget". 

 

Do you think it is a fictitious figment of your imagination, a number that gets talked about but actually means nothing?

[Srw1525]

I’m not scared of the cap this year, everyone is in a bind because of sales of last year. Do what you can this year and back at it next season!

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Yes you can. Saints 54M OVER CAP. Sign a TE to a QB 140M contract. 
 

sorry Cap is a mirage.  Key is structuring contracts right. IE Brown. 

 

The cap isn't a mirage as such just a concept that has been misexplained for so long that people have developed a misguided understanding of what it is. It is an accounting cap. The NFL regulates how much money a team can account for in any given season. In theory you can just keep kicking money onto future years accounting statements forever. The smart teams do that when they sense a chance to win and then take the hits in years when they are not expecting to be competitive for the post season anyway. A new generation of richer owners who can afford to pay up front and spread the cost and a new generation of younger, more aggressive, less rigid to old school cap management principles GMs has changed the way cap management is done. 

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

As I read through the free agent threads here....a whole lot of talk about steep prices for guys (always that way this time of year) but what I notice is that the Bills fan base seems overly cap conscience.  

 

I am not very familiar with Bills spending history or how they work with the Cap....and I certainly don't know the Pegulas ideas on this or Beanes.....

 

My questions to you are:

 

1.  Is everything ALWAYS about the future?  Is there ever a thought about "now"?

2.  Do you see a team that has had the cap kill them and you don't want to do the same?  ...was that team the Bills at some point?

3.  Do you think the cap can be manipulated or do you believe that the piper that needs paid, is always right around the corner?

 

There are no wrong answers to these questions....everyone kind of has different ideas on how this should work or how things ought to go with spending and contracts.....just wondering what the community here has to say about it since you all, IN GENERAL....seem kind of skittish about spending money (having the Bills sign folks..I know it's not your money)  

 

This is just plain stupid - If KC was not afraid of the cap why did they get rid of their 2 tackles without replacements.  Because they freed up Cap space to sign others - while both being injured for next season.
 

Why did they not sign Trent Williams like you said - oh because at some point it costs more than the players worth.  They must be a little scared of the CAP or you go higher to get the guy you want.

 

Why didn’t they sign Hunter Henry or Smith to supplement the TE position, Why didn’t they sign a quality WR as they really could use talent at WR as was shown in the SB.  
 

At some point every team has to make Cap related decisions - the question is how much do you want to push to the future and how much do you want to get out of the way.  KC has been ok for several years (prior to Mahomes), but never way over spent.  It became a thing in KC once they paid the QB and got a structure from the deal that they could manipulate.  The best team in this salary cap era is NE and they rarely got into salary cap jail - which kept them good for a long, long time.  The Saints should have been that successful, but their CAP management was terrible and they kept pushing bonuses to the future until bam they have to do stupid deals that will hurt the team going forward.

 

Beane is not adverse to borrowing from the future, but he is trying to balance that out so you become a contender for a long time.  The Mahomes restructure is nice one year - just pushes the money forward a bit, but then if they do it again and again eventually that dead CAP will cost you 3-4 players.  His deal already cost you OL depth and a 2nd SB.  Now it looks like it is costing you OL and WR talent.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

Number 3:  Obviously the cap can be manipulated but in the words of Bills Polian "The cap does not forgive and the cap does not forget". 

 

 

I think Polian would struggle in the modern NFL. The way Ted Thompson another great GM did at the end of his run in Green Bay. They are too old school and their approach to cap management is stuck in the 1990s. 

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This is just plain stupid - If KC was not afraid of the cap why did they get rid of their 2 tackles without replacements.  Because they freed up Cap space to sign others - while both being injured for next season.

 

Because neither is healthy. Why would you keep paying a left tackle with one year left and no chance of playing in that year? 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

5 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

As I read through the free agent threads here....a whole lot of talk about steep prices for guys (always that way this time of year) but what I notice is that the Bills fan base seems overly cap conscience.  

 

I am not very familiar with Bills spending history or how they work with the Cap....and I certainly don't know the Pegulas ideas on this or Beanes.....

 

My questions to you are:

 

1.  Is everything ALWAYS about the future?  Is there ever a thought about "now"?

2.  Do you see a team that has had the cap kill them and you don't want to do the same?  ...was that team the Bills at some point?

3.  Do you think the cap can be manipulated or do you believe that the piper that needs paid, is always right around the corner?

 

There are no wrong answers to these questions....everyone kind of has different ideas on how this should work or how things ought to go with spending and contracts.....just wondering what the community here has to say about it since you all, IN GENERAL....seem kind of skittish about spending money (having the Bills sign folks..I know it's not your money)  

You are absolutely correct, Bills fans are overly cap conscious. Just like we're overly focused on linebackers and running/stopping the run.

 

We more than anything wanted to support our football team during the two decades of Ralph Wilson's penny-pinching incompetence. Psychological dissonance occured;  we chose to buy into fiscal cowardice and "not mortgaging the future" (a term I've read on here about 8 billion times) rather than questioning the football operation.

 

You would not believe how many folks here didn't want to acquire Stefon Diggs because Beane shouldn't "mortgage the future" whatever the ***** that means. It was astonishing.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by 2020 Our Year For Sure

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Polian would struggle in the modern NFL. The way Ted Thompson another great GM did at the end of his run in Green Bay. They are too old school and their approach to cap management is stuck in the 1990s. 

 

Because neither is healthy. Why would you keep paying a left tackle with one year left and no chance of playing in that year? 

 

Because the CAP is meaningless - they should not be afraid of the money and Fisher could come back and be their savior.

 

They cut them because the 2 players are not worth the contract at this point and it frees up money - so KC must have recognized that the CAP is there and they needed the money to do other things.  They manipulated the CAP with Mahomes, but still did not sign the Tackles they wanted and overpayed for a guard.  KC recognized that the CAP was limiting them and at some point they got scared about what Trent Williams contract would do - or else they would have gone higher and higher.

 

I understand it - I just think the entire premise is ridiculous - Beane is playing the long game and that means borrowing from the future only when you have to - not all the time.

[BarleyNY]

The salary cap isn’t wrong, it’s just misunderstood 

[JMF2006]

Not anymore.....they renamed it Bills Stadium.......now I am terrified

[HOUSE]

If we keep spending there will be no money left for Matt Barkley

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The cap isn't a mirage as such just a concept that has been misexplained for so long that people have developed a misguided understanding of what it is. It is an accounting cap. The NFL regulates how much money a team can account for in any given season. In theory you can just keep kicking money onto future years accounting statements forever. The smart teams do that when they sense a chance to win and then take the hits in years when they are not expecting to be competitive for the post season anyway. A new generation of richer owners who can afford to pay up front and spread the cost and a new generation of younger, more aggressive, less rigid to old school cap management principles GMs has changed the way cap management is done. 

....so it's creative accounting, exactly like how fortune 500 companies cheat on tax laws

[Southern_Bills]

5 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

As I read through the free agent threads here....a whole lot of talk about steep prices for guys (always that way this time of year) but what I notice is that the Bills fan base seems overly cap conscience.  

 

I am not very familiar with Bills spending history or how they work with the Cap....and I certainly don't know the Pegulas ideas on this or Beanes.....

 

My questions to you are:

 

1.  Is everything ALWAYS about the future?  Is there ever a thought about "now"?

2.  Do you see a team that has had the cap kill them and you don't want to do the same?  ...was that team the Bills at some point?

3.  Do you think the cap can be manipulated or do you believe that the piper that needs paid, is always right around the corner?

 

There are no wrong answers to these questions....everyone kind of has different ideas on how this should work or how things ought to go with spending and contracts.....just wondering what the community here has to say about it since you all, IN GENERAL....seem kind of skittish about spending money (having the Bills sign folks..I know it's not your money)  

 

Buffalo's early 90s team ended in cap hell. Then we have been through the cash to cap years under Wilson, just didn't have the money to throw around. 

 

Then you have the fact Buffalo was a non playoff team for 17 years, which meant if you got a good FA you had to overpay and it rarely equaled wins on the field.

 

Most Bills fans see it as fools gold because throughout the entire FA Era we have rarely been a winner.

 

I do think with this team/management it will be different. Personally I think when you have a QB and a good team nucleus,  you go get them help and sort the chips later.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Starr Almighty]

I never shared this before with anybody but my parents use to tell me that the Boogie cap hid in my closet. So yes I am very afraid of the cap

[stinky finger]

5 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

It sure as hell wasn't because KC gives a crap about the cap...reports are their offer was right up with what the 49ers gave him.

 

So - not good enough?

Edited March 18, 2021 by inaugural balls

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, nato7412 said:

No we are not "scared of the cap" we are currently in a position where we could win the Super Bowl next year and will continue to be in that window if we are smart about the cap unlike the Saints with their current situation and even Eagles who won it and then immediately fizzled. We don't need to go all out to win the super bowl, with just some moves that we have already made we are now in a great position to win the Super Bowl next year and t what McBeane has always preached is winning now and in the future. The way we are acting now in FA is exactly that, very smart about the cap and future while also improving. Next year Allen will be better as he is still learning, his connection with Diggs will be better as they get more reps, the run game will be better with Moss gaining experience and the starting OL actually getting to play together, not just 3 snaps together like all of last year. Additionally Milano and Edmunds played a lot of the season hurt and should be better on D and Star returning will help too. So no we aren't afraid, we're putting ourselves in the best possible position to win now and in the future. As a matter of fact your Chiefs will likely be in a bad cap situation pretty soon.

the saints and eagles are no longer in position to be great because of the qb position, primarily. If either team had a real starter this year they’d be handling things differently 

6 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

Buffalo's early 90s team ended in cap hell. Then we have been through the cash to cap years under Wilson, just didn't have the money to throw around. 

 

Then you have the fact Buffalo was a non playoff team for 17 years, which meant if you got a good FA you had to overpay and it rarely equaled wins on the field.

 

Most Bills fans see it as fools gold because throughout the entire FA Era we have rarely been a winner.

 

I do think with this team/management it will be different. Personally I think when you have a QB and a good team nucleus,  you go get them help and sort the chips later.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

essentially all the marketing during the bad years worked, and now a lot of fans are paranoid about doing things that good teams do 

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Yes you can. Saints 54M OVER CAP. Sign a TE to a QB 140M contract. 
 

sorry Cap is a mirage.  Key is structuring contracts right. IE Brown. 

It isn’t the cap that’s the mirage, it’s the contracts that are. 

[Boxcar]

6 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

As I read through the free agent threads here....a whole lot of talk about steep prices for guys (always that way this time of year) but what I notice is that the Bills fan base seems overly cap conscience.  

 

I am not very familiar with Bills spending history or how they work with the Cap....and I certainly don't know the Pegulas ideas on this or Beanes.....

 

My questions to you are:

 

1.  Is everything ALWAYS about the future?  Is there ever a thought about "now"?

2.  Do you see a team that has had the cap kill them and you don't want to do the same?  ...was that team the Bills at some point?

3.  Do you think the cap can be manipulated or do you believe that the piper that needs paid, is always right around the corner?

 

There are no wrong answers to these questions....everyone kind of has different ideas on how this should work or how things ought to go with spending and contracts.....just wondering what the community here has to say about it since you all, IN GENERAL....seem kind of skittish about spending money (having the Bills sign folks..I know it's not your money)  

You shouldn't be scared of things that aren't real.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

I think you are a little spoiled by your QB on a rookie deal. Kansas City WILL start feeling it sooner or later once that contract kicks in.

 

But yeah, there are things to do to manipulate and mange the cap. Everybody here realizes that as well.

 Not true