Texans' Deshaun Watson accused of indecent conduct in civil lawsuit; QB denies wrongdoing

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, Boxcar said:

No one said you can't judge Watson, have at it. No one is forcing you to like how the law works. Pretty dumb comparison, though. It would be apt if there was a single instance of video evidence, just like Rice.

 

Video evidence would be thrown out like for B👁️bert Krafty.

[Buffalo Junction]

Really wishing the Phins or Jets traded for him now. 

[Boxcar]

7 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

 

I don’t think a lot of people understand the process is unlikely to ever play out.  It is unlikely Watson ever has a jury trial (civil or criminal).  
 

all we can do is look at the evidence.  We don’t have any here, so I wouldn’t judge much personally.  But I think when you start getting 20-40 accusers, it is as reasonable to judge as most videos.

 

 

Though, under NFL precedent, he already has done enough to be suspended.  Which is dumb imo

I understand how the law works quite well, thank you.  But this whole discussion is about judging, so not sure what you’re talking about.  None of us hypothetical jurors for a hypothetical trial.

Maybe Watson should find 100 people to say he's innocent. That's more than the women, so I'd have to conclude he did nothing wrong.

[Numark3]

7 hours ago, Boxcar said:

Maybe Watson should find 100 people to say he's innocent. That's more than the women, so I'd have to conclude he did nothing wrong.

the logic isn’t hard to follow, even if you disagree.  There are over 20 sets of factual allegations.  When there’s that many, the gist of them are almost always true.  Here that gist is he used massages for sexual purposes.  Whether or not it rises to harassment/assault is really the only issue.  
 

but with that many independent allegations, it’s pretty reasonable to believe he was being inappropriate during massages.   

[Boxcar]

3 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

the logic isn’t hard to follow, even if you disagree.  There are over 20 sets of factual allegations.  When there’s that many, the gist of them are almost always true.  Here that gist is he used massages for sexual purposes.  Whether or not it rises to harassment/assault is really the only issue.  
 

but with that many independent allegations, it’s pretty reasonable to believe he was being inappropriate during massages.   

As of yet, they are NOT factual allegations.

 

These also weren't independent. We see it all the time where it starts with one and snowballs. Buzbee was actively looking for more women. Some experienced different things than others, and a small percentage likely experienced nothing at all.

 

If Watson did what is alleged, he should be punished accordingly. That needs to be proven.

 

For me, personally, the higher the number gets, the more suspicious I get. One or two I could see Watson thinking he could get away with, but 20-30? Risking his entire career for something that will surely come out publicly seems...weird. But, maybe he did have a sex addiction. Maybe he did think because he was who he was that everything he did could be considered consensual. But, at the end of the day, no one really knows what happened, and I am clearly not a big fan of jumping to the assumption of guilt before his side of the story is even heard.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

the logic isn’t hard to follow, even if you disagree.  There are over 20 sets of factual allegations.  When there’s that many, the gist of them are almost always true.  Here that gist is he used massages for sexual purposes.  Whether or not it rises to harassment/assault is really the only issue.  
 

but with that many independent allegations, it’s pretty reasonable to believe he was being inappropriate during massages.   

 

Agree with all this and that is why he is pretty much bang to rights in terms of liability under the civil law. In terms of his career, I think it can survive a finding of civil liability... but it would not survive a criminal charge. What the evidence in the public domain is lacking for that criminal charge at the moment is that single smoking gun piece of evidence. The IG message from Watson saying he hoped he didn't make a woman feel uncomfortable isn't quite it. It doesn't get you to the threshold. But if there are more messages that are retrievable that actually go a step further and admit to the specific actions he is accused of then that takes the criminal case from being hard to prove to one that most prosecutors would bring immediately. 

 

What would make me nervous if I was Watson is just under 2 weeks ago the Panthers were still interested (as per reports) but were doing their own due diligence. They are now clearly going another direction. That leads me to believe that teams having dug into this have assessed that there is more out there that is likely to lead to criminal charges. Similarly you have to believe folks like Nike have done their own background work before taking their decision too. Teams and sponsors backing away at this relatively late stage in the process would lead me to suspect they have done their digging and decided that there is more than what is in the public domain so far.   

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Well.... he's not wrong with that last

2 hours ago, Boxcar said:

As of yet, they are NOT factual allegations.

 

These also weren't independent. We see it all the time where it starts with one and snowballs. Buzbee was actively looking for more women. Some experienced different things than others, and a small percentage likely experienced nothing at all.

 

If Watson did what is alleged, he should be punished accordingly. That needs to be proven.

 

For me, personally, the higher the number gets, the more suspicious I get. One or two I could see Watson thinking he could get away with, but 20-30? Risking his entire career for something that will surely come out publicly seems...weird. But, maybe he did have a sex addiction. Maybe he did think because he was who he was that everything he did could be considered consensual. But, at the end of the day, no one really knows what happened, and I am clearly not a big fan of jumping to the assumption of guilt before his side of the story is even heard.

 

I don't become more suspicious as the number grows higher - but neither does it somehow convey automatic likelihood of guilt to me, personally

[cba fan]

43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

I don't become more suspicious as the number grows higher - but neither does it somehow convey automatic likelihood of guilt to me, personally

you don't grow more suspicious of a VIP with 100's of accusers?? vs a VIP with 1?

[Frat-Train]

“Rusty Hardin” seems like a borderline inappropriate name for DW’s attorney, all things considered...

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Really wishing the Phins or Jets traded for him now. 

 

I'm thinking the Fins are pushing these other present and former NFLers into this current crime spree so as to make Watson look not so bad.

 

I mean, it's possible right?  These owners?

[DaggersEOD]

5 hours ago, Boxcar said:

As of yet, they are NOT factual allegations.

 

These also weren't independent. We see it all the time where it starts with one and snowballs. Buzbee was actively looking for more women. Some experienced different things than others, and a small percentage likely experienced nothing at all.

 

I'll tell you though, the situation where the SI journalist reached out to a random masseuse and she had her own story very similar to the ones portrayed in the media did more to color my opinion than the (12, 14, 20, 22!) allegations.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

I'll tell you though, the situation where the SI journalist reached out to a random masseuse and she had her own story very similar to the ones portrayed in the media did more to color my opinion than the (12, 14, 20, 22!) allegations.

 

A similar story that they were able to partially verify by talking to contemporaneous source, no less. 

 

Same here, that did influence me against Watson.  Especially where he contacted her again for a massage and she said "if you behave more professionally...I only do massage" then he was 🦗🦗🦗

[TBBills]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Maybe he should worry about the actual problem of Watson instead of what Buzbee is doing to promote the case.

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

[ndirish1978]

The SI article sealed my opinion. Journalists can't just print slander, they'll get fired and the publication will face a huge lawsuit. 

[Saxum]

31 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

The SI article sealed my opinion. Journalists can't just print slander, they'll get fired and the publication will face a huge lawsuit. 

 

Sure they do. They qualify it as opinion and use anonymous sources they will defend in court under freedom of press.

[Dafan]

11 hours ago, Boxcar said:

As of yet, they are NOT factual allegations.

 

These also weren't independent. We see it all the time where it starts with one and snowballs. Buzbee was actively looking for more women. Some experienced different things than others, and a small percentage likely experienced nothing at all.

 

If Watson did what is alleged, he should be punished accordingly. That needs to be proven.

 

For me, personally, the higher the number gets, the more suspicious I get. One or two I could see Watson thinking he could get away with, but 20-30? Risking his entire career for something that will surely come out publicly seems...weird. But, maybe he did have a sex addiction. Maybe he did think because he was who he was that everything he did could be considered consensual. But, at the end of the day, no one really knows what happened, and I am clearly not a big fan of jumping to the assumption of guilt before his side of the story is even heard.

I get where you're at with the high numbers.   But then I think to myself why he would be going through over 40 massage therapists....specially through Instagram.

[Maynard]

On 4/7/2021 at 3:41 PM, vincec said:

I have no idea what happened in these incidents, but given that Watson is an elite QB in his prime- the most coveted asset in all of pro football (and maybe any sport), he will get opportunities to play again no matter what happens unless he actually goes to jail for an extended period of time and is flat unavailable.

Yeah, I think that’s the reality of it. See Michael Vick. Different circumstances, but both disturbing (if true that Watson did these actions). 

[mannc]

On 4/7/2021 at 4:41 PM, vincec said:

I have no idea what happened in these incidents, but given that Watson is an elite QB in his prime- the most coveted asset in all of pro football (and maybe any sport), he will get opportunities to play again no matter what happens unless he actually goes to jail for an extended period of time and is flat unavailable.

I think this is probably correct—he’ll get a chance to play again, barring a significant criminal conviction.  But I doubt he’ll ever be the same.  Watson’s aura of greatness has been shattered and he’s at best a laughingstock now.  We don’t know how this is going to play out yet, but I think Tiger Woods after the 2008 incident is probably the best sports analogy.