Texans' Deshaun Watson accused of indecent conduct in civil lawsuit; QB denies wrongdoing

[Captain Hindsight]

6 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

it didn’t Easterby had a lot to do with it too. It’s funny how Cal McNair and Easterby are apparently trying to build this Christian, faith-based franchise. Won’t cut Watson though, that would screw up the salary cap.

I'm sure lawyers and accountants are involved at this point

 

"Tell me how to not owe him anything" is a common phrase in Houston FO right now

[Seventeen]

5 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Have you ever seen what happens to women who come forward with sexual assault claims?

 

Death threats, character assassination, stalking, threats to family members. Even if Watson is guilty, these women will now be known as the people that ended Watson's career, not the other way around

 

I have a hard time understanding the "money grab" theory. It just doesn't match with reality 

 

If Watson is guilty, his career should be over. I have no problem believing that massage therapists filing civil suits against Watson are looking for $. 

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Exactly - I'm leaning toward Watson being guilty and almost everyone else here already has him guilty with no criminal charges filed. I put a theory out there as far-fetched as it may be and if I'm way off, so what ? Wouldn't be the 1st time someone in a position of power tried to ruin someone. 

 

But until there's evidence that Watson is guilty other than words, I will wait until it plays out. 

 

How did the women's lawyer and the McNairs figure out how to implant all those texts between Watson and all these women over the past year  on his phone?

Edited March 30, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[Seventeen]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How did the women's lawyer and the McNairs figure out how to implant all those texts between Watson and all these women over the past year  on his phone?

 

Are there there any smoking gun texts that you know about that would warrant criminal charges ? 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Roy Hobbs

[CincyBillsFan]

44 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Have you ever seen what happens to women who come forward with sexual assault claims?

 

Death threats, character assassination, stalking, threats to family members. Even if Watson is guilty, these women will now be known as the people that ended Watson's career, not the other way around

 

I have a hard time understanding the "money grab" theory. It just doesn't match with reality 

You bring up a good point.  Could the timing of these women coming forward be more about their feeling that Watson isn't as popular in Houston since he started pushing for a trade? 

 

It would be pretty hard to come forward and accuse an elite QB in a football crazy town at the height of his popularity. It's a little safer when the shine has come off and the QB is tarnished.

 

 

[Beast]

35 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Are there there any smoking gun texts that you know about that would warrant criminal charges ? 

 

Here's the thing about criminal charges in a harrassment/sex case..you need to have a cooperative victim to procede. If you have no victims that want to cooperate with a criminal investigation, there is no case. You can't force someone to cooperate.

 

I'm not even sure any of the victims allegations meet criminal conduct as I have not read any of these documents, so there is that as well.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Beast

[Mr. WEO]

41 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Are there there any smoking gun texts that you know about that would warrant criminal charges ? 

 

He's not been charged and no one has pressed charges, so that doesn't matter for this discussion.  He's being sued.

 

But go ahead and answer my question:  how did this lawyer and the team owner plant all those texts (that he is now furiously deleting) on his cell phone.  They would had to have for your conspiracy to be at all plausible.  How did they do it?

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Exactly - I'm leaning toward Watson being guilty and almost everyone else here already has him guilty with no criminal charges filed. I put a theory out there as far-fetched as it may be and if I'm way off, so what ? Wouldn't be the 1st time someone in a position of power tried to ruin someone. 

 

But until there's evidence that Watson is guilty other than words, I will wait until it plays out. 

 

So I have him almost certainly liable by the civil standard. I think based on the information in the public domain having him guilty by the criminal standard is much less certain, but that is because of the high standard in criminal law and the fact that what there is in the public domain is a lot of circumstantial evidence rather than conclusive proof of criminal action. 

 

Your theory is, with respect, bonkers. 

[Seventeen]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He's not been charged and no one has pressed charges, so that doesn't matter for this discussion.  He's being sued.

 

But go ahead and answer my question:  how did this lawyer and the team owner plant all those texts (that he is now furiously deleting) on his cell phone.  They would had to have for your conspiracy to be at all plausible.  How did they do it?

 

No one planted any texts but until you can produce evidence of incriminating texts, it's a non-prosecutable money grab. And how would you know Watson is furiously deleting texts on his cell phone ? 

 

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I have him almost certainly liable by the civil standard. I think based on the information in the public domain having him guilty by the criminal standard is much less certain, but that is because of the high standard in criminal law and the fact that what there is in the public domain is a lot of circumstantial evidence rather than conclusive proof of criminal action. 

 

Your theory is, with respect, bonkers. 

 

Maybe so - it's just a theory. 

 

14 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Here's the thing about criminal charges...you need to have a cooperative victim to procede. If you have no victims that want to cooperate with a criminal investigation, there is no case. You can't force someone to cooperate.

 

The Oklahoma City police department had no trouble getting 13 cooperative victims to proceed against Daniel Holtzclaw. So these women would just want compensation instead of Watson being criminally charged if indeed he actually did something criminal ? 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Roy Hobbs

[Hapless Bills Fan]

58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

How did the women's lawyer and the McNairs figure out how to implant all those texts between Watson and all these women over the past year  on his phone?

 

The texts we know about appear to just be arranging massages.  Nothing wrong with that, though using so many different massage therapists seems strange.

 

However, it is telling to me that a woman who gave Watson a massage he booked through her colleague, felt it necessary to text that she would book him if he would behave more professionally and agree to be draped with a sheet this time, or that she gives "massage, nothing else"

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

No one planted any texts but until you can produce evidence of incriminating texts, it's a non-prosecutable money grab. And how would you know Watson is furiously deleting texts on his cell phone ? 

 

LOL I don't have to produce the texts.  The plaintiffs have in their suits.  Maybe you have missed all of the news reports detailing some of these?

 

Anyway, let's get back to the conspiracy you are considering.  How do you think it went down?  The lawyer and the owners were able to somehow track down 19 women that Watkins received "sports massage" from?  How did they get such a list of people?  Who other than Watson would know who they all were?

 

Help us out here.  Your conjecture is fascinating.  Elaborate...

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The texts we know about appear to just be arranging massages.  Nothing wrong with that, though using so many different massage therapists seems strange.

 

However, it is telling to me that a woman who gave Watson a massage he booked through her colleague, felt it necessary to text that she would book him if he would behave more professionally and agree to be draped with a sheet this time, or that she gives "massage, nothing else"

 

According to the lawsuit, after wiping the ***** off of her and finishing the session "as quickly as possible," she told Watson to leave. 

"After Watson left the house, he sent her a text saying 'Maybe 4:30 pm? At Houstonian. I see you're getting comfortable with certain techniques and areas,' " the lawsuit states. "When Plaintiff declined the massage, Watson texted her incessantly almost every day afterwards asking for a massage. Plaintiff did not respond to his messages. Watson would also call Plaintiff almost three times a day. Plaintiff would not answer his calls. Plaintiff felt violated, disgusted and betrayed."

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

The Oklahoma City police department had no trouble getting 13 cooperative victims to proceed against Daniel Holtzclaw. So these women would just want compensation instead of Watson being criminally charged if indeed he actually did something criminal ? 

 

Because there's no physical evidence tying Watson to anything these women are saying. Texts and online messages that set up meetings are not enough to prove he did anything illegal. What we have is over 20 different women all telling a different version of the same story. That is enough evidence to hold up in civil court and certainly in the court of Roger Goodell, but not criminal court. Many people have tried to explain this to you so at this point you're being willfully ignorant.

[Beast]

14 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

The Oklahoma City police department had no trouble getting 13 cooperative victims to proceed against Daniel Holtzclaw. So these women would just want compensation instead of Watson being criminally charged if indeed he actually did something criminal ? 

 

 

I'll tell you what, if I was a victim of a crime and knew I could be compensated because the perp had deep pockets? ***** the criminal justice system. Show me the money. And this is coming from someone that has made his living from working within that system.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Beast

[Seventeen]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

LOL I don't have to produce the texts.  The plaintiffs have in their suits.  Maybe you have missed all of the news reports detailing some of these?

 

Anyway, let's get back to the conspiracy you are considering.  How do you think it went down?  The lawyer and the owners were able to somehow track down 19 women that Watkins received "sports massage" from?  How did they get such a list of people?  Who other than Watson would know who they all were?

 

Help us out here.  Your conjecture is fascinating.  Elaborate...

 

 

What prompted the women to come forward in the 1st place ? All 19 sought out Buzbee from the yellow pages ? How many of the women had Watson as a repeat customer despite their allegations ? 

 

Getting a list of sports massage therapists that worked on Watson ? A few phone calls is all it would take. 

 

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Because there's no physical evidence tying Watson to anything these women are saying. Texts and online messages that set up meetings are not enough to prove he did anything illegal. What we have is over 20 different women all telling a different version of the same story. That is enough evidence to hold up in civil court and certainly in the court of Roger Goodell, but not criminal court. Many people have tried to explain this to you so at this point you're being willfully ignorant.

 

According to Watson's lawyer, it's a crock. So we'll see ...

 

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The texts we know about appear to just be arranging massages.  Nothing wrong with that, though using so many different massage therapists seems strange.

 

However, it is telling to me that a woman who gave Watson a massage he booked through her colleague, felt it necessary to text that she would book him if he would behave more professionally and agree to be draped with a sheet this time, or that she gives "massage, nothing else"

 

Even more telling she would book him again if his previous conduct was unacceptable. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Roy Hobbs

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

What prompted the women to come forward in the 1st place ? All 19 sought out Buzbee from the yellow pages ? How many of the women had Watson as a repeat customer despite their allegations ? 

 

Getting a list of sports massage therapists that worked on Watson ? A few phone calls is all it would take. 

 

 

According to Watson's lawyer, it's a crock. So we'll see ...

 

 

Calls to who?  And how would the owners know he was having regular lewd massages?  How did they keep this massive conspiracy hushed up to this very day as it unfolds?  And how is it that Watson's lawyer has not counter-sued the owners for concocting such a bold and outrageous scheme to defame their under-contract superstar?

 

Tell us more....

 

 

[Seventeen]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Calls to who?  And how would the owners know he was having regular lewd massages?  How did they keep this massive conspiracy hushed up to this very day as it unfolds?  And how is it that Watson's lawyer has not counter-sued the owners for concocting such a bold and outrageous scheme to defame their under-contract superstar?

 

Tell us more....

 

 

 

No, I'd rather not - I'll let you use your detective skills to figure it out or maybe not as you seem to have it all figured out. How would you know whether Hardin plans to counter-sue the women ? Because it hasn't happened yet ? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

The Oklahoma City police department had no trouble getting 13 cooperative victims to proceed against Daniel Holtzclaw. So these women would just want compensation instead of Watson being criminally charged if indeed he actually did something criminal ?

 

The Holtzclaw case is very interesting.  It all came to the surface when he targeted the "wrong" (for him) woman AND the police department found her credible (no police record or convictions, stable life) AND the department immediately uncovered enough discrepancies between his story and hard evidence they gained.  Then the department looked at other evidence - Holtzclaw's gps track compared to the route described in a complaint of "forced oral sex" by a police office that no one took seriously or investigated a month earlier because, poor complainant with criminal record.  After that, the investigators looked at all the record checks he'd run, reached out to the women, AND matched their stories to GPS data from Holtzclaw's car.

 

I guess my point is that absent three key factors - a "credible" victim, an officer or officers who took the complaint seriously (vs the officers who took the complaint the previous month), AND immediate physical evidence to back the stories up - the chances seem very good that the case would not have proceeded, and all of those women would have potentially placed themselves and their families at risk of possible police reprisals AND targets of negative public attention.

 

I don't know if most of the conduct in the Watson lawsuits available to date or SI story rises to the level of a criminal complaint in Texas (anyone?).  The complaints of forced oral sex,certainly, but given the context (a massage, with the known blurry boundary between "just massage" services vs. "rub and tug" palaces), I think the chances that the police would have taken the rest of the complaints seriously or investigated to unearth their large number, is pretty low even if there is some criminal statute that would apply.  Just my opinion.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

No, I'd rather not - I'll let you use your detective skills to figure it out or maybe not as you seem to have it all figured out. How would you know whether Hardin plans to counter-sue the women ? Because it hasn't happened yet ? 

Why not Lizard People?  UFOs?  The Russians?  Just a theory.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

According to the lawsuit, after wiping the ***** off of her and finishing the session "as quickly as possible," she told Watson to leave. 

"After Watson left the house, he sent her a text saying 'Maybe 4:30 pm? At Houstonian. I see you're getting comfortable with certain techniques and areas,' " the lawsuit states. "When Plaintiff declined the massage, Watson texted her incessantly almost every day afterwards asking for a massage. Plaintiff did not respond to his messages. Watson would also call Plaintiff almost three times a day. Plaintiff would not answer his calls. Plaintiff felt violated, disgusted and betrayed."

 

C'mon WEO.  It's not criminal to contact a massage therapist to request a massage.  Even "incessantly".

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

No, I'd rather not - I'll let you use your detective skills to figure it out or maybe not as you seem to have it all figured out. How would you know whether Hardin plans to counter-sue the women ? Because it hasn't happened yet ? 

 

 

This is the problem with any conspiracy and for its theorists:  the simplest questions cannot be answered.  When pressed on the details of the logic of their theory, invariably they say to the doubter (strangely): "you figure it out".