Texans' Deshaun Watson accused of indecent conduct in civil lawsuit; QB denies wrongdoing

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Agreed. For someone who has never had a message by a legitimate licensed therapist or otherwise, the entire industry is confusing to me. The news, and our culture make it seem as if these happy ending type message parlors are somewhat common and can be found in every city. I can see where Watson thought he was just acting as a normal customer and at the same time the masseuse may have thought this isn't over the top behavior by Watson, or even behavior she hadn't encountered before but at the same time was not at all comfortable and made Watson aware.

 

If these more sexual message parlors are common in our society I would think quite a few men have gone into one thinking their behavior would be understood only to be quickly reprimanded by the masseuse as the man realizes he is not in one of those parlors.

 

If anything, this Watson story and the news in Georgia area really just shining light on this industry. One that I am completely naïve about.

 

You must have missed the long discussion about this when Bobby had his handie at Orchids of Asia a couple years ago.

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You must have missed the long discussion about this when Bobby had his handie at Orchids of Asia a couple years ago.

 

 

Yeah I didn't really care to dive into that discussion. But again, just more evidence of how wide spread and mainstream those type of parlors seem to be. Really makes me believe Watson more than likely did behave inappropriately but at the same time no way was it any of these women's first encounter with that kind of behavior and they probably were not sure if it was something they should just pretend never happened or file a suit. So that is probably why suits were not filed until now.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Agreed. For someone who has never had a message by a legitimate licensed therapist or otherwise, the entire industry is confusing to me. The news, and our culture make it seem as if these happy ending type message parlors are somewhat common and can be found in every city. I can see where Watson thought he was just acting as a normal customer and at the same time the masseuse may have thought this isn't over the top behavior by Watson, or even behavior she hadn't encountered before but at the same time was not at all comfortable and made Watson aware.

 

If these more sexual message parlors are common in our society I would think quite a few men have gone into one thinking their behavior would be understood only to be quickly reprimanded by the masseuse as the man realizes he is not in one of those parlors.

 

If anything, this Watson story and the news in Georgia area really just shining light on this industry. One that I am completely naïve about.

 

I know there are "Happy Ending"-type massage parlors in every town, but first lawsuits at least doesn't sound like people who are part of that type of massage parlor. 

 

There are also a lot of fancy spas who give massages as part of their services, and massage businesses which are 100% about a massage, nothing else.  They aren't sleazy, they don't employ women whose immigration status is in question.  Their employees are women and men, and their clients are women and men.   I have had regular massages at this type of spa or massage business.  In fact, I'm sitting on a gift certificate for one that went out of business this past year 😥.  I have specifically asked for extra attention to specific glute areas as I have a problem with piriformis syndrome, and deep massage/heat to those specific areas help.  I ask for extra time in the room after the massage so that I can stretch afterwards.

 

I also know people whose friends or relatives work in these businesses.  They would object strongly to being called a "masseuse" - they are "massage therapists".   Most are licensed or credentialed in one way or another to show that they've been trained and know their stuff.   It is NOT "normal customer" behavior to initiate sexual behavior or to expose the genitals.

 

That's not to say that it doesn't happen, either by accident or intent, with consent or without, but it's not "normal customer behavior" with a massage therapist/licensed aesthetician, either. 

 

But as far as the behavior described in the first lawsuit, I think most female massage therapists have probably encountered it because of the confusion between "rub and tug" "happy ending" type parlors and spa-type massage businesses, and the first time, to re-cover the sausage, the second to say "I'm ending the massage now, please leave" is as far as it would usually go.

 

 

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Yeah I didn't really care to dive into that discussion. But again, just more evidence of how wide spread and mainstream those type of parlors seem to be. Really makes me believe Watson more than likely did behave inappropriately but at the same time no way was it any of these women's first encounter with that kind of behavior and they probably were not sure if it was something they should just pretend never happened or file a suit. So that is probably why suits were not filed until now.

 

That some massage parlors are sex dens has been common knowledge for decades.  What was more elucidated in Bobby's case was the forced (immigrant) sex labor aspect of it.

 

As for Watson, if he merely asked for a handie, I can't see a case for anything.  You either do it or you don't.  If they didn't and claim he offered to pay more, it's his word against theirs.  If they did it with or without being paid, they're nailed for prostitution. 

[Saxum]

51 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Agreed. For someone who has never had a message by a legitimate licensed therapist or otherwise, the entire industry is confusing to me. The news, and our culture make it seem as if these happy ending type message parlors are somewhat common and can be found in every city. I can see where Watson thought he was just acting as a normal customer and at the same time the masseuse may have thought this isn't over the top behavior by Watson, or even behavior she hadn't encountered before but at the same time was not at all comfortable and made Watson aware.

 

If these more sexual message parlors are common in our society I would think quite a few men have gone into one thinking their behavior would be understood only to be quickly reprimanded by the masseuse as the man realizes he is not in one of those parlors.

 

If anything, this Watson story and the news in Georgia area really just shining light on this industry. One that I am completely naïve about.

 

 

Issue for many places according to reports is they advertise one thing very often using false images obtained from internet sites overseas, get your money and then provide different employees and are "hard" sales for upgrades.   When R👁️‍🗨️bert of New England got in trouble I did a deep search of sites and found a number of ads with mid 20s Asian women models for "Orchids of Asia" but all of those taken in by police were much, much older women and not models.   Others without these upgrades are advertising similarly at similar prices so customers expect same services are available.  Newspapers used have a lot of these type ads in sports section.

 

If you look in yelp you can see lots of confusion from customers offered extra services like happy endings and not expecting and customers rating places very poorly for employees not match expectations from ads.

[Nitro]

Texans are rebuilding while ignoring his request for a trade.  Bad timing.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

That some massage parlors are sex dens has been common knowledge for decades.  What was more elucidated in Bobby's case was the forced (immigrant) sex labor aspect of it.

 

As for Watson, if he merely asked for a handie, I can't see a case for anything.  You either do it or you don't.  If they didn't and claim he offered to pay more, it's his word against theirs.  If they did it with or without being paid, they're nailed for prostitution. 

 

You know, it’s always helpful before opining to actually, IDK, read some of the stuff on the case?  There’s nothing in the lawsuits about asking.  That doesn’t mean what’s in the lawsuits happened, it just means your comments are irrelevant to what has been alleged.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

 

Issue for many places according to reports is they advertise one thing very often using false images obtained from internet sites overseas, get your money and then provide different employees and are "hard" sales for upgrades.   When R👁️‍🗨️bert of New England got in trouble I did a deep search of sites and found a number of ads with mid 20s Asian women models for "Orchids of Asia" but all of those taken in by police were much, much older women and not models.   Others without these upgrades are advertising similarly at similar prices so customers expect same services are available.  Newspapers used have a lot of these type ads in sports section.

 

If you look in yelp you can see lots of confusion from customers offered extra services like happy endings and not expecting and customers rating places very poorly for employees not match expectations from ads.

 

Just a note once again, that the lawsuits are not about businesses such as “Orchids of Asia” or the women who work there.  

 

They’re about massage therapists recommended by Texans personnel in 2 cases, someone Watson flew in from another city, a massage therapist who agreed to give him a massage in her home, another in an office building.  One is a licensed aesthetician, meaning someone who likely works in a spa business that provides other esthetic services like facials, waxing or sugaring and so forth.  These are not normally places where “happy endings” are offered or expected.

 

You may just be commenting in general but thought it was worth clarifying.

[Behindenemylines]

Here in NE, they did a survey and 60% stated they wanted DW as the starting QB of the Patriots and would just ignore all of this until its resolved.  That to me speaks volumes about this fan base, considering the S-storm their owner was in not too long ago. Cant see them going all in on this, considering that though.  Ill stand by what I said before, 2 or 3 possibly can be in on a scam to defraud, but we are approaching 22 now with more possibly.  This isnt possible to be a full scam with those numbers, so there has to be a kernel of truth in all of this.  

 

Additionally, people keep saying he was squeaky clean, so this is must be made up.  Look no further than Tiger, who was a model citizen until he was boozing, popping pills, and bangin tatted up  wanna be porn stars.  He got caught by mistake and it all came out fast.  There are dozens others with the same MO. You have to fully investigate the complaint before using past history to determine future actions.  

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hapless Bills Fan
remove political ref

[ColoradoBills]

9 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

The opportunity for a trade though is on hold.  This thing is a mess.

 

Leaving the whole legal thing out of it and just looking at the Texans perspective the only thing I can see is that the Texans

if they indeed want to trade Watson would want to do it after June 1st.

 

It frees up $10M this year instead of adding an extra $5M along with his current Cap Hit this year.

A team trading for him would only have a $10M hit this year and just about anyone could get that.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/deshaun-watson-21753/

 

It would mean that Houston goes with TT at QB and has to wait until next year for their picks which is risky.

It all would essentially mean that Houston wastes this year but that team has done a lot of goofy things in the past.

 

I just don't get this whole thing myself.

 

[Saxum]

There was talk about protest of fans going from Texans Quarterback Deshaun Watson's Lefty’s Famous Cheesesteaks restaurant to Texans stadium if Watson did not get promised input.

 

I wonder if there will be protest around his restaurant(s) regarding his activities. 

Different social groups protest different ways. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Leaving the whole legal thing out of it and just looking at the Texans perspective the only thing I can see is that the Texans

if they indeed want to trade Watson would want to do it after June 1st.

 

It frees up $10M this year instead of adding an extra $5M along with his current Cap Hit this year.

A team trading for him would only have a $10M hit this year and just about anyone could get that.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/deshaun-watson-21753/

 

It would mean that Houston goes with TT at QB and has to wait until next year for their picks which is risky.

It all would essentially mean that Houston wastes this year but that team has done a lot of goofy things in the past.

 

I just don't get this whole thing myself.

 

You know, the only way I can see the Texans doing this is if thereis some morality clause or something similar in his contract that would void his guarantees.  If not, I let him sit and fine him to the maximum now.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

There was talk about protest of fans going from Texans Quarterback Deshaun Watson's Lefty’s Famous Cheesesteaks restaurant to Texans stadium if Watson did not get promised input.

 

I wonder if there will be protest around his restaurant(s) regarding his activities. 

Different social groups protest different ways. 

 

Can we consider that these are allegations at this point - not activities?  Maybe we should wait for some proof or at least some more details before speculating on protest activities?

 

I work to keep the benefit of the doubt either way at this point, which seems appropriate.

 

Though I must admit that lawyer makes it a challenge

 

11 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Leaving the whole legal thing out of it and just looking at the Texans perspective the only thing I can see is that the Texans

if they indeed want to trade Watson would want to do it after June 1st.

 

It frees up $10M this year instead of adding an extra $5M along with his current Cap Hit this year.

A team trading for him would only have a $10M hit this year and just about anyone could get that.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/deshaun-watson-21753/

 

It would mean that Houston goes with TT at QB and has to wait until next year for their picks which is risky.

It all would essentially mean that Houston wastes this year but that team has done a lot of goofy things in the past.

 

I just don't get this whole thing myself.

 

 

The thing is, Watson's trade value is maximal right now (actually, a week ago) while teams are shopping for QB.

Once teams have signed $10M contracts or drafted rookies or whatever they're gonna do, his trade value goes down

 

Hard to know what to believe

[Saxum]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can we consider that these are allegations at this point - not activities?  Maybe we should wait for some proof or at least some more details before speculating on protest activities?

 

 

There were protests on other things before there was proof before.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You know, the only way I can see the Texans doing this is if thereis some morality clause or something similar in his contract that would void his guarantees.  If not, I let him sit and fine him to the maximum now.

 

Maybe.  I still think they will trade him before the season starts but with this legal stuff it's just crazy.

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Maybe.  I still think they will trade him before the season starts but with this legal stuff it's just crazy.

 

The legal stuff and Commish's actions (if there are any) make him untradable at least until those are settled.  In the meantime, if I'm them, I'm looking at every avenue to get my guaranteed money back.

[Locomark]

14 hours ago, NoSaint said:

especially as a guy that bought a “draft Johnny football” billboard in Houston previously.

 

he’s got a super sketchy reputation. 
 

but doesn’t mean the claims are untrue, just because the attorney is sketchy.

I heard today the attorney is the neighbor of the owner.... wow talk about making this even more sketchy... 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Anyone remember when Peyton Manning was accused of sexual assault by an athletic trainer? 

[Bferra13]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Anyone remember when Peyton Manning was accused of sexual assault by an athletic trainer? 

Yup, but not 12 athletic trainers. And not in the prime of cancel your azz 

[Locomark]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Leaving the whole legal thing out of it and just looking at the Texans perspective the only thing I can see is that the Texans

if they indeed want to trade Watson would want to do it after June 1st.

 

It frees up $10M this year instead of adding an extra $5M along with his current Cap Hit this year.

A team trading for him would only have a $10M hit this year and just about anyone could get that.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/deshaun-watson-21753/

 

It would mean that Houston goes with TT at QB and has to wait until next year for their picks which is risky.

It all would essentially mean that Houston wastes this year but that team has done a lot of goofy things in the past.

 

I just don't get this whole thing myself.

 

They are a terrible org but they should know that they can get a crap more value now than after June 1. So if he is gonna be moved is seems to be before the draft and it is super likely to be out of conference. They could go Panthers, Lions, or even Philly because all could hand them a current decent QB plus first round picks in the top 10 if they wanted.