Stranded in Boston Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) I'm sorry to see Smoke go; he was a big part of Josh's development. He did sometimes seem a bit less-than-crisp in route running, but OTOH, he ran one of my all-time favorite Bills' routes against New England last year, when he absolutely toasted Gilmore on a gorgeous post-corner for TD. Gilmore might STILL be chasing that post feint ... Anyhow, I hope Smoke can turn it around in Vegas -- just not against the Bills. Edited March 17, 2021 by Stranded in Boston 3
Logic Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 I think it was @Hapless Bills Fan that said it here first, and then I saw Erik Turner and Greg Tompsett of Cover 1 talk about it on Twitter: John Brown too easily got erased by aggressive press coverage last year. He too easily got erased from whole games, in general. Seeing now how much Brown signed for, compared to how much Sanders cost, and then keeping in mind that the Bills didn't even ask Brown to take a pay cut (according to Brown)...it just seems like the Bills view Sanders as un upgrade. In particular, as Turner pointed out: Teams started to play two-high safety zone coverage shells more and more as the year went on to force the Bills to dink and dunk their way own field. It took the offense some time to adjust, and Brown was not particularly helpful in these situations. By contrast, Sanders is more physical, a better route runner in general, and can work underneath more effectively. So while they gave up the speed and familiarity of Brown, they gained the physicality and route running of Sanders and, thus, theoretically gained the ability to more effectively operate against the two-high shells and/or to force defenses back into playing man-to-man. TL;DR: Beane and McDermott seem to feel that Sanders is simply better than Brown, or at least more effective at doing what they need from a WR2. They replaced Brown with Sanders as a means of more effectively operating in the short and intermediate game, so that when teams go to soft zones, the Bills can more effectively counter. 2
NewEra Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Thanks for the service Smoke! You’re a class act and I appreciate you. I’ll always be a fan. 1
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, JOSH HUFF said: Brown was awesome, should have kept him. I would rather have brown than Sanders, especially a 34 year old Sanders. Your words have merit, but we now have Harlan's great great grandson. Famous relative criteria: ✔️! 1
Just in Atlanta Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) Out with the old. In with the ... old. In all seriousness, I do wish him well there. Seemed like a solid low 2 / high 3 from my vantage point, even during his injury last year. Edited March 17, 2021 by Just in Atlanta
Royale with Cheese Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 I like Brown and he played well for us. However, I think they went with Sanders because I believe he's pretty good getting off of press and runs good routes. I didn't watch every route in the AFCCG that he ran but I did see a few times where the corner got his hands on Brown....he couldn't get off.
Norcalbillsfan Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, Logic said: I think it was @Hapless Bills Fan that said it here first, and then I saw Erik Turner and Greg Tompsett of Cover 1 talk about it on Twitter: John Brown too easily got erased by aggressive press coverage last year. He too easily got erased from whole games, in general. Seeing now how much Brown signed for, compared to how much Sanders cost, and then keeping in mind that the Bills didn't even ask Brown to take a pay cut (according to Brown)...it just seems like the Bills view Sanders as un upgrade. In particular, as Turner pointed out: Teams started to play two-high safety zone coverage shells more and more as the year went on to force the Bills to dink and dunk their way own field. It took the offense some time to adjust, and Brown was not particularly helpful in these situations. By contrast, Sanders is more physical, a better route runner in general, and can work underneath more effectively. So while they gave up the speed and familiarity of Brown, they gained the physicality and route running of Sanders and, thus, theoretically gained the ability to more effectively operate against the two-high shells and/or to force defenses back into playing man-to-man. TL;DR: Beane and McDermott seem to feel that Sanders is simply better than Brown, or at least more effective at doing what they need from a WR2. They replaced Brown with Sanders as a means of more effectively operating in the short and intermediate game, so that when teams go to soft zones, the Bills can more effectively counter. Awesome info, I wasn't heart broken with smoke leaving. When he was on the feild it still felt like something wasn't right and you made it clear what that was. I wish him all the best in vegas. 1
Rocky Landing Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Brown will be a really good weapon for Nate Peterman to shine in the offseason.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Awwww....something just got in my eye. For those who don't speak Insta: Isaiah McKenzie (posts pic of him leaning on Brown, maybe from frustration or for comfort): "Another one (teammate) gone, but I'm happy for you" John Brown: "Love you bro, I'm always a call away" Those guys really built a bond, even McKenzie who was noted as an incessant trash talker of his own teammates.
billsfan89 Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 2 hours ago, mjt328 said: Clearly John Brown's release was about more than just money. His comments after getting cut last week suggested that Buffalo never asked him to take a paycut. And him settling for only $3.75 million guaranteed on the 3rd day of free agency pretty much confirms that. Personally I liked Brown, and don't really see a 33-year-old Emmanuel Sanders as much of an upgrade. Maybe there is more to his injury than fans know about. Maybe the team wants to move away from pure speed guys, and prefers to have more physical guys. I think it has to be a more serious injury than we thought too. Agents know their players markets and they know what they can get and if they asked Brown to take a pay cut I am sure he would have. Good signing for the Raiders a good “buy low” opportunity.
Brennan Huff Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 3 hours ago, junior12thman92 said: Some board members about to be big mad upon seeing those numbers lol. It’s me. I’m board members. I was ok with letting Brown walk. But then they signed Sanders. I’d take brown for 3 mil per over Sanders at 6 all day long. Not even the slightest bit of doubt 1
Freddie's Dead Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Farewell John SmokeY Brown, we hardly knew ye. All the best to you and yours.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Speaking of Ex-Bill Raider WR's...almost forgot about Zay, who sticks on another year for them as well. 1
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Some people honestly thing Brown is a run all the routes WR? Lee Evans had a 1,000 yard season. He wasn't a run all the routes WR either. Wait till they see Sanders. Sanders is like a cross between Beasley and Diggs. He won't take the top off like Brown could in his prime but he's much more versatile. 1
gobillsinytown Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 By all accounts Smoke is a really good guy, so I hope he does well there. Unfortunately you never know how the Raiders are going to do each year with Wild-Eyed Jon as coach. Sometimes he seems like he's getting them ready for a good run, and sometimes it looks like they're ready to crash and he goes back to the TV booth. Either way they're always entertaining.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: That's what I meant. Lol. Holy Smoke. The league must not have felt good about him? We should have given him the same deal
SirAndrew Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 4 hours ago, billsfan89 said: I think it has to be a more serious injury than we thought too. Agents know their players markets and they know what they can get and if they asked Brown to take a pay cut I am sure he would have. Good signing for the Raiders a good “buy low” opportunity. I think this is the best analysis considering the cost and talent of the players involved. I don’t see Sanders as an upgrade over Brown like others do. I think both guys are capable of similar production. I’m happy with the Sanders acquisition because it filled a need after letting Brown go. I see it as a lateral move. I don’t agree with all this talk about opponents shutting down Brown. Brown was shut down by physical defensive play both times against KC, but our entire offense got shut down by KC twice. Brown isn’t the most physical receiver, but people are talking about him like he disappears on a regular basis. What number two wideout doesn’t get shut down on occasion ? Let’s not act like Emmanuel Sanders is a player who’s impossible to take out of the game. The sole difference might be the injury situation. Sanders could contribute a lot more if he’s healthy next season, while Brown could have injury issues.
billsfan89 Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: I think this is the best analysis considering the cost and talent of the players involved. I don’t see Sanders as an upgrade over Brown like others do. I think both guys are capable of similar production. I’m happy with the Sanders acquisition because it filled a need after letting Brown go. I see it as a lateral move. I don’t agree with all this talk about opponents shutting down Brown. Brown was shut down by physical defensive play both times against KC, but our entire offense got shut down by KC twice. Brown isn’t the most physical receiver, but people are talking about him like he disappears on a regular basis. What number two wideout doesn’t get shut down on occasion ? Let’s not act like Emmanuel Sanders is a player who’s impossible to take out of the game. The sole difference might be the injury situation. Sanders could contribute a lot more if he’s healthy next season, while Brown could have injury issues. Sanders was more productive than Brown in 2020. Projecting what either could bring in 2021 and I would give a slight edge to Sanders. I think Sanders in a more limited role can thrive and take the pressure off Davis and Cole just enough to keep the offense chugging along. Hoping they add Ertz or another pass catching weapon to the offense. 1
SirAndrew Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Sanders was more productive than Brown in 2020. Projecting what either could bring in 2021 and I would give a slight edge to Sanders. I think Sanders in a more limited role can thrive and take the pressure off Davis and Cole just enough to keep the offense chugging along. Hoping they add Ertz or another pass catching weapon to the offense. I agree, and I like the Sanders signing. I just think that injuries to Brown significantly impacted his 2020 season. Sanders had superior 2020 stats, but Brown also had 72 catches in 2019 to Sanders 36 catches that year. Both players have their strengths and weaknesses. I’m not sure you could rely on Brown 2021, but I disagree with acting like Sanders is twice the player. People finding all these flaws in Brown seems like nitpicking just because we let him go.
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