Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Well what do you consider WR #2 numbers? Because I think you’re off there too... you named yardage and in terms of yardage the past 3 seasons he’s been a low end #1 and high end #2. #27, #33, #50 and that includes RB and TE. I’m not telling fans to do anything... where did I say to get excited or not to get excited? That’s just making things up... scroll back and give me an example. Nobody is saying the Sanders is having his career year here this year? I sure didn’t say that... so what does it actually matter how old he is or if he’s in his prime right now? It doesn’t matter... we’re not expecting him to have career year or be our leading receiver... why would you give me leaders for that? If you have me performance against age for all WR or something like that... that makes a good argument. Showing me the top WR in the league and saying “See they’re young and putting up 1500 yards” is disingenuous... nobody is expecting Sanders to put up 1500 yards or saying he’s in his prime. It’s just useless information. I guess I don't know what we're talking about then. I took exception to you categorizing fans like don't love this signing as this: "Fans are just going to react like fans when they don’t see a big name they PERCEIVE as a stud because they put up big fantasy numbers. Most couldn’t tell you about their route running ability, ability to play multiple positions, leadership qualities, separation on routes, etc BUT they can tell you they picked Emmanuel Sanders up week 13 last year and he didn’t have a great fantasy week so HE IS TRASH! " #2, #3, #4 - what are we talking about here? He's a 34-year old WR who hasn't had 1,000 yards since 2016. So fans getting mad because he isn't a big name? Fans don't know anything about football because of Fantasy? No, its fans who just point out he's a rotational WR today, and all those great qualities you point out (the route running, the multiple positions, the leadership, the separation on routes) obviously DOES NOT differentiate him from the mid-pack of starting WR's. He's a quality veteran. Realistic expectation is 600-900 yards and 4-6 TDs probably. Great, he slots into John Browns spot from last year and will compete with Davis most likely for playing time.
YoloinOhio Posted March 17, 2021 Author Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, FFadpecr said: He is much much better. A full 2 tiers better. After 2021, Josh will be regarded as the #1 QB in football. Josh’s middle name is Patrick today is St Patrick’s Day idgaf about Mahomes josh is king
JGMcD2 Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: I guess I don't know what we're talking about then. I took exception to you categorizing fans like don't love this signing as this: "Fans are just going to react like fans when they don’t see a big name they PERCEIVE as a stud because they put up big fantasy numbers. Most couldn’t tell you about their route running ability, ability to play multiple positions, leadership qualities, separation on routes, etc BUT they can tell you they picked Emmanuel Sanders up week 13 last year and he didn’t have a great fantasy week so HE IS TRASH! " #2, #3, #4 - what are we talking about here? He's a 34-year old WR who hasn't had 1,000 yards since 2016. So fans getting mad because he isn't a big name? Fans don't know anything about football because of Fantasy? No, its fans who just point out he's a rotational WR today, and all those great qualities you point out (the route running, the multiple positions, the leadership, the separation on routes) obviously DOES NOT differentiate him from the mid-pack of starting WR's. He's a quality veteran. Realistic expectation is 600-900 yards and 4-6 TDs probably. Great, he slots into John Browns spot from last year and will compete with Davis most likely for playing time. Yes, fans generally react off of emotion. They base their perceptions of off very few and specific experiences with particular players (typically fantasy football or watching 1 of their nationally televised games) and formulate their opinion based off of that. Which results in typically have very little evidence to support their argument and their argument is slanted based off a limited view of that player... or they decide to use useless information to back up their argument that doesn’t even match the description they’re throwing out. The issue with your point is that your numbers don’t match your description and you’ve failed to define anything to give me something to go off of. The 50th percentile and up of 600-900 yards and 4-6 TDs are borderline WR1 and definite WR2 numbers... Guys like Beasley, Kupp, Woods, Boyd, Landry, Smith-Schuster put up numbers like that last year... so they’re rotational #3 WR? Edited March 17, 2021 by JGMcD2
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Grading WR Emmanuel Sanders’ deal with the Bills: A Quote Well, Josh Allen will not lack for slot targets in 2021. Last season for the Saints, Sanders caught 61 passes on 82 targets for 726 yards and five touchdowns in the regular season, adding eight catches on 12 targets for 51 yards in the postseason. He also led the Saints in slot targets with 26, slot catches with 19, slot yards with 184, and slot touchdowns with two. He was also New Orleans’ best deep receiver, catching six passes of 20 or more air yards on nine targets for 211 yards and one touchdown. Not bad for a receiver in an offense where the deep ball was an endangered species. 1 1
NoSaint Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 18 hours ago, BillsRdue said: Sanders also had Taysom Hill throwing to him and a watered down, injured and about to retire Brees. I think a Sanders will have a good year and open up things for Beas and Diggs. I do agree on watching his snaps this year. I had Sanders on my fantasy team and he disappointed. I never started him. it’s a consideration, but even early in the year drew didn’t seem to fully trust him, which is a red flag. I don’t think sanders is a bum or anything but given the option, I wouldn’t hesitate saying brown is the guy I’d want this Sunday. and I’ve been one of browns critics too, with him being streaky outside that excellent year for us. I just think he’s got an extra step still, fits in the room, etc... but who knows behind the scenes. 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Yes, fans generally react off of emotion. They base their perceptions of off very few and specific experiences with particular players (typically fantasy football or watching 1 of their nationally televised games) and formulate their opinion based off of that. Which results in typically have very little evidence to support their argument and their argument is slanted based off a limited view of that player... or they decide to use useless information to back up their argument that doesn’t even match the description they’re throwing out. The issue with your point is that your numbers don’t match your description and you’ve failed to define anything to give me something to go off of. The 50th percentile and up of 600-900 yards and 4-6 TDs are borderline WR1 and definite WR2 numbers... Guys like Beasley, Kupp, Woods, Boyd, Landry, Smith-Schuster put up numbers like that last year... so they’re rotational #3 WR? Last two years: He played (10) games for San Francisco in the regular season. He went 25, 112, 24, 33, 15, 41, 157, 9, 61, 25. 502 yards. With NO he played (14) games: 15, 18, 56, 93, 122, 38, 5, 66, 4, 39, 48, 76, 83, 63. 726 yards So last (24) games he averages 51 yards a game. If he plays all 16 games and that's 816 yards. Bills averaged 31.3 ppg last season. With Sanders do they average 35 ppg? He's an upgrade over 2020 Brown just by staying healthy. But I'm not sure what you're trying to say? He's elite, he's great, he's good, he's ok, he makes our offense much more dangerous, more dangerous, the same. He slots in behind Diggs and somewhere around Beasley and Davis for targets. Maybe Allen and Sanders team up and he has his best year since 2016.
JGMcD2 Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Last two years: He played (10) games for San Francisco in the regular season. He went 25, 112, 24, 33, 15, 41, 157, 9, 61, 25. 502 yards. With NO he played (14) games: 15, 18, 56, 93, 122, 38, 5, 66, 4, 39, 48, 76, 83, 63. 726 yards So last (24) games he averages 51 yards a game. If he plays all 16 games and that's 816 yards. Bills averaged 31.3 ppg last season. With Sanders do they average 35 ppg? He's an upgrade over 2020 Brown just by staying healthy. But I'm not sure what you're trying to say? He's elite, he's great, he's good, he's ok, he makes our offense much more dangerous, more dangerous, the same. He slots in behind Diggs and somewhere around Beasley and Davis for targets. Lol. You and I are both so spun around. I am confused because you’re not defining anything for me! Haha What do you considered numbers for a #1 WR? What do you consider numbers for a #2 WR? What do you consider numbers for a #3 WR? I personally think he’s a solid #2 and his numbers over the last 24 games suggest that to me by my definition of a #2... what I’m trying to understand is your definition of a #2... because you’re calling him a rotational #3 guy fighting for playing time... Once I understand those things I can dive deeper into how I feel... but we also might actually agree on some concepts here. Easier to find common ground on definitions and concepts prior to going further... Edited March 17, 2021 by JGMcD2
ngbills Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Lots of debate on Sanders. Here is how I see it. When it comes to your #2 or #3 the difference between the players is not as significant. You want a guy that is good enough to draw attention and get you 50 yards in a game if needed, catch a few key passes basically. So, Sanders is not much different than Brown, Green, Bourne, Jones, Hilton, Watkins, etc. You get the best one with the least amount of money. What you dont want is to let go of a Brown and think Duke Williams, Jake Kumerow, etc type guys being the replacement. 3 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Lol. You and I are both so spun around. I am confused because you’re not defining anything for me! Haha What do you considered numbers for a #1 WR? What do you consider numbers for a #2 WR? What do you consider numbers for a #3 WR? I personally think he’s a solid #2 and his numbers over the last 24 games suggest that to me by my definition of a #2... what I’m trying to understand is your definition of a #2... because you’re calling him a rotational #3 guy fighting for playing time... Once I understand those things I can dive deeper into how I feel... but we also might actually agree on some concepts here. Easier to find common ground on definitions and concepts prior to going further... You summed it up correctly here. You think he's a #2 WR. I think he's right with Beasley and Davis in terms of targets. So the #3 in this offense behind Diggs and Beasley. I think players best years are 22 years - 28 years, and so at 34 and changing teams now for the 4th time in 3 years, I think he's a rotational piece now, not a foundational WR going forward. I think he slots into WR group, but won't be the eye-opening force Diggs was last year. Which again, makes sense, Diggs was 26 and turned 27 and was trending up for years. I think the only real question, assuming you think he makes this offense better, which is seems like you do, how much better?
Scorp83 Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 22 hours ago, r00tabaga said: Cheaper than Smoke? Yea they saved $3M signing Sanders over keeping Smoke... me personally, would rather have Smoke on the roster.
BillsFan1988 Posted March 18, 2021 Posted March 18, 2021 13 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: All I'm saying is he isn't going to give you the 1,404 yards he gave you when he was 27 in Denver. He's a #3 at this point, and all indications are he will give the Bills 600-900 yards this season. That's a #3 on this team. I don't get excited because Emmanuel Sanders is coming. He takes John Brown's spot, who doesn't really make a difference in the trajectory of any team he's on either. #3 WRS don't add to Vegas win totals or change the betting lines on games. He's a rotational piece on this team. You're telling fans to get excited. I'm telling you I'm not excited. I don't think he is going to do much of note here. He's old, and his best seasons are behind him. He's had a nice career, he was a quality #2 WR for a couple of years. That's a long time ago now. Also, I posted the leaders in yardage the last few years and their age, because you said age isn't really a factor and I disagree with that too. For most skill players their best years come earlier, not later, in their careers. Sanders is past his prime. Not useless, but it's a big signing 5 years ago, not now. I would like to add to this ES hasn't reached 1,000 yds since 2016 . It's been 5 yrs and he was 29yrs old the last time he cracked 1000 yds.
newcam2012 Posted March 18, 2021 Posted March 18, 2021 14 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: Yes, he’s aging. The rest is not correct. He didn’t play more than expected for New Orleans... they signed him to a 2/$24M deal. I don’t know many teams dropping $12M AAV on a guy they don’t expect to play that much? He may have played a different role then expected but the amount he played wasn’t anywhere near unexpected for his salary. This is the first 1 year deal that Sanders has signed... ever... he has not been bouncing around on 1 year deals up to this point. Also, why are you showing me league leading receivers? Sanders isn’t a #1 WR for us and never has been a #1 WR for anyone... that’s just a nonsensical illustration. You’re telling me that Emmanuel Sanders doesn’t move the needle as a #2/3 option because he’s getting older and older players aren’t leading receivers? It’s a good thing we’re not relying on him to be our leading receiver... I suppose we move on from Cole Beasley too because he’s going to be 32... forget that good season he had last year... he’s over 30... the likelihood that he leads the league in receiving is decreasing... we don’t want him! Damn, that was a polite tongue lashing. People you have to do your homework or you will be called out. This is an example of it. Nice post!
BillsFan1988 Posted March 18, 2021 Posted March 18, 2021 15 hours ago, newcam2012 said: Without getting into salary and cap numbers (which is impossible) I would really like Fuller and Galloway in a Bills uniform. Looks like it's too late for that we blew our load already. Btw those guys aren't old enough to get into Club McBeane u got to be 30+ to get in. Lol.
newcam2012 Posted March 18, 2021 Posted March 18, 2021 If he's a quality wr (your own words) wouldn't it be reasonab 13 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Classic embellishment to try and exaggerate your point and minimize my point. I said this quite clearly: he's a quality WR who will give you 600-900 yards in a #3 type role, but he's older, and a 1-year deal indicates the Bills think that as well. He's good for a specific role on the team this year. He's not some huge difference maker. You are contradicting yourself.
newcam2012 Posted March 18, 2021 Posted March 18, 2021 13 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Classic embellishment to try and exaggerate your point and minimize my point. I said this quite clearly: he's a quality WR who will give you 600-900 yards in a #3 type role, but he's older, and a 1-year deal indicates the Bills think that as well. He's good for a specific role on the team this year. He's not some huge difference maker. So are WR3s unimportant to a football team? Can't they be an important piece to help teams win games? In a team game, strong components help teams win games. A good to great WR3 can really help out an offense. I think Sanders can be that guy for the Bills. I think it's shallow and micro to mitigate the importance of a WR3.
papazoid Posted March 18, 2021 Posted March 18, 2021 sanders is a slight upgrade over brown because it plays to josh's strength. which is firing a mid range pass to an open receiver. brown supposedly took the top off the defense.....but, the long ball is still josh's weakness sanders is a route runner like diggs who will get open with moves. brown pretty much ran a straight slant line across the formation in one direction. 2 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted March 18, 2021 Posted March 18, 2021 4 hours ago, newcam2012 said: So are WR3s unimportant to a football team? Can't they be an important piece to help teams win games? In a team game, strong components help teams win games. A good to great WR3 can really help out an offense. I think Sanders can be that guy for the Bills. I think it's shallow and micro to mitigate the importance of a WR3. 4 hours ago, newcam2012 said: If he's a quality wr (your own words) wouldn't it be reasonab You are contradicting yourself. There is no contradiction here. A solid veteran WR slots into the Bills WR group behind Diggs and Beasley. 4 hours ago, newcam2012 said: Damn, that was a polite tongue lashing. People you have to do your homework or you will be called out. This is an example of it. Nice post! Sanders is on his 4th Team in 3 years. Don't we see this a lot with veterans towards the ends of their careers? What homework needs to be done? He hasn't had a 1,000 yard season since 2016, and his best season came 9 years ago now.
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