With Ravens letting both DEs walk maybe the high paid DE is not good value

[MAJBobby]

It kind of confirms to me what I have been thinking for the last couple years. 
 

DEs are becoming less and less vital in the pass rush and interior pass rush is Uber important anymore. 
 

I have felt watching games over the past couple years these quick strike offenses have effectively schemed the High Paid DE out of making major impacts. I mean heck even the likes of Big Ben who used to hold the ball forever is getting it out in 2.5 seconds or less. 
 

makes me wonder if this is the trend and I think Ravens, the most analytical team in NFL, is seeing it as well. 
 

I think anymore with the way offenses are pressure is going to come from scheme more than that top end 20M AAV DE. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by MAJBobby

[C.Biscuit97]

Interesting but the Ravens always let good players and just end up restocking. They are probably the best drafting team in the nfl. 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

I agree, it’s been trending that way for years. Hoping Oliver never plays another down at the 1 tech. 

[scuba guy]

Good point op

 

Seems like in year past there would be 4 to 5 de with middle teens in sack numbers

 

Also there would be alot of the de get sacks early in the season and than fade out as the year goes by. Maybe it was the fact that the d was ahead of the offense early in the year and than the offense schemed around getting help on said de. Even Garrett seams to have good news early than fades out. Maybe he is still taking plays off

 

Last year was diff with all the holding that was going on

 

[SCBills]

Have to say, this is a great point.  

 

Chiefs cut their two starting tackles and restructured a bunch of contracts to sign the best interior OL on the market.  They saw what happens when Mahomes faces pressure and that's the route they took.

[Tortured Soul]

A little hard to believe that the team that traded for Ngakoue mid season made such a sudden and sharp change in approach. Not impossible, just hard to believe.

[Reed83HOF]

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

It kind of confirms to me what I have been thinking for the last couple years. 
 

DEs are becoming less and less vital in the pass rush and interior pass rush is Uber important anymore. 
 

I have felt watching games over the past couple years these quick strike offenses have effectively schemed the High Paid DE out of making major impacts. I mean heck even the likes of Big Ben who used to hold the ball forever is getting it out in 2.5 seconds or less. 
 

makes me wonder if this is the trend and I think Ravens, the most analytical team in NFL, is seeing it as well. 
 

I think anymore with the way offenses are pressure is going to come from scheme more than that top end 20M AAV DE. 

This is an interesting thought and observation...

 

Hmmm

[whorlnut]

Try telling this to guys like the Bosa’s and Chase Young. 
 

I guess my point is that unless you have an elite pass rusher, then I somewhat agree with you. I’m not excited at all about taking an edge at 30 anymore, because we would be looking at the fourth or fifth edge off the board at that point. It’s already a fairly weak draft at that position. We could get a better player at that spot than going for a second rate edge prospect. 

[DCOrange]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Have to say, this is a great point.  

 

Chiefs cut their two starting tackles and restructured a bunch of contracts to sign the best interior OL on the market.  They saw what happens when Mahomes faces pressure and that's the route they took.

I don’t remember for sure but I think Reid has said this before: pressure up the middle is the most difficult thing to deal with. Harder to find than edge rushers though. 

 

Just now, Tortured Soul said:

A little hard to believe that the team that traded for Ngakoue mid season made such a sudden and sharp change in approach. Not impossible, just hard to believe.

I think with Baltimore it’s possible they’re looking for more pressure up the middle but also just as possible they simply weren’t happy with Ngakoue and feel that he and Judon were both overrated. 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

Try telling this to guys like the Bosa’s and Chase Young. 
 

I guess my point is that unless you have an elite pass rusher, then I somewhat agree with you. I’m not excited at all about taking an edge at 30 anymore, because we would be looking at the fourth or fifth edge off the board at that point. It’s already a fairly weak draft at that position. We could get a better player at that spot than going for a second rate edge prospect. 

 

Yea, I think elite pass rushers are still a problem, but how many of them are there really?

 

Bosa worked us, but TJ Watt couldn't do anything.  

 

In the playoffs, it was Buckner and Jones wreaking havoc against the interior of our OL. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

I don’t remember for sure but I think Reid has said this before: pressure up the middle is the most difficult thing to deal with. Harder to find than edge rushers though. 

 

I think with Baltimore it’s possible they’re looking for more pressure up the middle but also just as possible they simply weren’t happy with Ngakoue and feel that he and Judon were both overrated. 

 

I think every team that has had Ngakoue have felt he was overrated.  He is now on team 4 and his presence (or lack when he moved on) did not change the team at all.

 

I think the Ravens wanted Judon, but not at the price paid by NE.  Judon is an excellent player in the Ravens scheme - he just is not worth what NE paid for a team that is trying to build around what they hope is a franchise QB.

[papazoid]

its all about value and the likelihood of outperforming the contract......gotta make tough choices

 

plus, they are in line for 3rd round compensatory draft compensastion

[C.Biscuit97]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Have to say, this is a great point.  

 

Chiefs cut their two starting tackles and restructured a bunch of contracts to sign the best interior OL on the market.  They saw what happens when Mahomes faces pressure and that's the route they took.

I also think part of the way teams play offense. Spread offenses are popular in high school where they have smaller guys. Way easier for o linemen to block in a spread. So with the NFL going more to spread offenses, you don’t necessarily need the $20 million LT. just don’t tell billfromNYC.

[Rochesterfan]

16 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

It kind of confirms to me what I have been thinking for the last couple years. 
 

DEs are becoming less and less vital in the pass rush and interior pass rush is Uber important anymore. 
 

I have felt watching games over the past couple years these quick strike offenses have effectively schemed the High Paid DE out of making major impacts. I mean heck even the likes of Big Ben who used to hold the ball forever is getting it out in 2.5 seconds or less. 
 

makes me wonder if this is the trend and I think Ravens, the most analytical team in NFL, is seeing it as well. 
 

I think anymore with the way offenses are pressure is going to come from scheme more than that top end 20M AAV DE. 

 

I think an highly effective DE can still be sought after, but teams have really done a great job of scheming quick plays or draw plays to neutralize specific DEs.

 

I agree that a couple of talented DTs getting pressure and blowing up the middle of the field is a huge improvement to most teams.  The DEs rush up field and contain and then crash for the sacks, but the DTs pushing the pile back is the usual start to a great pass rush.

[MAJBobby]

30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Interesting but the Ravens always let good players and just end up restocking. They are probably the best drafting team in the nfl. 

Except at DE. They typically have re-signed there in years past Suggs to name one. 

25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Can't say I agree... The Bucs pass rush was relentless from everywhere on that front four in the SB. 

That is one team though. 

24 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Try telling this to guys like the Bosa’s and Chase Young. 
 

I guess my point is that unless you have an elite pass rusher, then I somewhat agree with you. I’m not excited at all about taking an edge at 30 anymore, because we would be looking at the fourth or fifth edge off the board at that point. It’s already a fairly weak draft at that position. We could get a better player at that spot than going for a second rate edge prospect. 

To be honest edge sucks in this draft. IDL is even worse. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Yea, I think elite pass rushers are still a problem, but how many of them are there really?

 

Bosa worked us, but TJ Watt couldn't do anything.  

 

In the playoffs, it was Buckner and Jones wreaking havoc against the interior of our OL. 

Frank Clark was a wrecking ball as well.  He had 2 sacks and was relentless.  I agree that Jones was the best player in the field, but Clark played a huge part. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by NewEra

[Hapless Bills Fan]

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Please edit the title so that it properly reflects the discussion that you started.

 

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[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

Try telling this to guys like the Bosa’s and Chase Young. 
 

I guess my point is that unless you have an elite pass rusher, then I somewhat agree with you. I’m not excited at all about taking an edge at 30 anymore, because we would be looking at the fourth or fifth edge off the board at that point. It’s already a fairly weak draft at that position. We could get a better player at that spot than going for a second rate edge prospect. 

Yup. Also Clowney keeps getting paid and he isn’t even good. It’s still a hugely important position.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Have to say, this is a great point.  

 

Chiefs cut their two starting tackles and restructured a bunch of contracts to sign the best interior OL on the market.  They saw what happens when Mahomes faces pressure and that's the route they took.

 

Tackles still matter.

 

Did anyone listen carefully to the full Jon Feliciano media availability yesterday?  Not the fluff stuff where he was asked where he was and reached down for an open beer with a lime, took a healthy swig, then said "South Florida" or where he described how he Ghosted Josh Allen with the news.

 

The part where he talked about what the OL has to do better: "we have extremely gifted people on the outside, so they make up for small things that we weren't so good at. We've got to just keep working on the small things and have an understanding that it's a completely new season. What we did last year was nice and all, but it was for naught, because we didn't finish the job"

 

A strong interior is great and all, but you still need tackles.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Interesting observation, but it neglects to consider the players' perspective.

 

Ngakoue has been trying to hit the open market, and decide his own fate, for years. Instead, he was tagged in Jax, then traded to Minn, then traded again to Baltimore. I'm not surprised he tested the market as soon as he could.

 

Judon was going to be paid more than he was worth, and the Ravens (and Judon's camp) knew this.

 

I think it is all more coincidental, than showing any trends that outside rush isn't important. It definitely is.