Lawson to Jets

[Mountain Man]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

So far, we have basically the same DL, with Jefferson/Murphy swapped out for Star (maybe).   

In reality.... Star improves 2 positions as Butler can go back to 3T, he was playing out of position last year. Epenesa and Oliver both improved massively through the season. 

 

So we are far better off already, plus there is the rest of FA and the draft. 

[machine gun kelly]

Agreed MM.  I’d add Star returning also helps Edmunds.

 

SC, good points.  Frazier’s scheme was really out of necessity IMO, as our players weren’t good enough to get there with four.  Therefore out of need we had to blitz.  We can only hope as MM mentioned, Edmunds can get back to his sideline to sideline play.  I’m hopeful a rotation of Oliver and Butler in his normal position, along with that Beast in Star, amd Jerry may improve to a degree.  My concern is the Epenesa/Addison rotation.  I was underwhelmed to say the least in Addison.  I was taken in on the avg. of 9+ sacks the four previous years for Addison.  I saw flashes from Epenesa, but not acquiring someone better yet is unfortunate.  I’ll table judgment until the dust settles.

 

GB has been on record several times indicating Addison was fading the last few years.

Edited March 16, 2021 by machine gun kelly

[BillsFan1988]

6 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

How do you figure?

 

Lawson’s best year with sacks was his rookie year by far - he has not been getting better - he has been getting more snaps with less production per snap.  2019 was more productive than last year as he had 5.0 sacks on 477 defensive snaps. He had more tackles for loss and played better all around.  

 

In 16 games in 2020 and well over 120 additional snaps - he got 0.5 more sacks than Mario Addison for the Bills. (A guy you and several other posters are killing for his production).  He also had less overall tackles and less tackles for loss than Addison in all of those extra snaps.

 

He is younger than Addison, but he is getting paid more than 2x what Addison is paid for less production (both career averages and last season per snap).

 

Look I liked Lawson and would of been fine with him on the Bills at a reasonable contract - around Addison/Murphy level.  At nearly 2x at - his pass rushing is not good enough to warrant that kind of money. Heck Lawson had fewer sacks than Shaq Lawson did for the Bills in 1/2 the snaps in 2019.
 

Watching the Bengals- he was noticeably on a few occasions, but he never popped.  He was Shaq Lawson, Mario Addison type player - getting push - making a few plays, but rarely flat out beating a tackle 1:1.  He is a good player, but I think the Jets way over paid - same as they did with Corey Davis - a speed guy with questionable hands.
 

 

U forgot to mention Lawson was 4th in the NFL in QB pressures and he's on a team that's losing most of the time. Do u realize how hard it is to do that? If Lawson was playing for the Bills in 2020 he would of gotten more then 10sks and his pressures would of been more so.

 

The Bills were leading for most of there games which allows Pass rushers to tee off and collect sacks and hurries the fact is as a team we only compiled 39sks and most of those sacks came when we sent the blitz. To me that's flat out awful especially since we spent over 50mil on our DLINE to get those results. Addison never popped on film he never stood out to me he was a awful investment and u know it. Beane had a chance to wipe his hands clean with Addison and Butler but he choose continuity instead of signing 1 of these young stud DEs . The problem with continuity is u can also continue to suck and I think that will be the case here. 

[delirious]

2 hours ago, Mountain Man said:

In reality.... Star improves 2 positions as Butler can go back to 3T, he was playing out of position last year. Epenesa and Oliver both improved massively through the season. 

 

So we are far better off already, plus there is the rest of FA and the draft. 

 

 how the f do we already know Star is in playing shape, going to play this season, the answer to our D line woes?

Edited March 16, 2021 by delirious

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

if his contract is Milano and Addison combined, I’d rather have Lawson and draft LB at 30.  

 

6 hours ago, Jerboski said:

Nope... I think the Williams move was pivotal 

 

mad respect for that... I’m just super confused why we are going Milano instead of a Yannick, Lawson or Hendrickson 

 

2 of the 3 could have been had for great value contracts... we are in a super bowl window and running it back makes little sense to me... it was clear our pass rush wasn’t good enough 

Nailed it 

 

Except it isn’t for this year.  Milano is 7 and Addison is 4 based on the restructure- so Lawson also costs you Williams.

 

That for a guy that again made little difference on Cincinnati and has historically (including last year) had less production than Addison.

 

Basically an EDGE that got the QB down 5 times would cost you at minimum 3 starters from last year that you resigned.  With little to no guarantee that he signs with Buffalo.  Give me the 3 guys you know versus the one guy that you don’t.

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

15 mil per, for want 10+ sacks and a guy who will require consistent double teams.  
 

Also, I find your chart to be an oddly specific, personal, and accurate attack.  How dare you

How accurate is that chart though? 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

 Nobody is saying that.  People are looking at this roster in relation to beating KC/Tampa etc., and staying on top of the AFCE.  
 

The scrutiny is much more pointed when you’re comparing yourself to the best of the best.   
 

Our DL was a massive weakness last year.  We also had no running game or TE threat.   Those 3 things (along with Frazier’s gameplan) killed us against KC.  
 

So far, we have basically the same DL, with Jefferson/Murphy swapped out for Star (maybe).   Addison, Star and Butler are all guys many on the board didn’t want, and two have been relegated to pay cuts, while the other is a mystery right now.  All 3 are tying up cap space that could’ve gone to a young pass rusher.  
 

We re-signed our OL - It’s likely set outside of depth.   They are great in pass pro, so let’s hope our FO believes scheme, coaching and consistency is needed for the run game.  
 

TE/RB, not fair to really judge them on these spots until after FA/Draft.   
 

Beane isn’t perfect, but he’s dang good.  He could easily shut me up, and I low key expect him too - but he’s done things we can at least discuss in non-sunshine/rainbows terms.  
 

Yes, I agree.  We need to improve in some areas for sure.

 

I wasn’t referring to you....FYI.  We do have some over the top people with “its not what I want them to do so its stupid” constant attitude.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

10 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Has every signing been an AFC team?  I don’t remember anyone significant going to an NFC team yet.

 

THANK YOU! It just seems like the NFC is trying to die, to make things harder for us...

 

Caveat: I know this is not true.
Caveat #2: 39 years of being a Bills fan has also taught me to always feel like everything good regarding our team is always morphing into a giant brown log.

[jletha]

2 hours ago, delirious said:

 

 how the f do we already know Star is in playing shape, going to play this season, the answer to our D line woes?

This is my thought. I see it all over that "we get Star back...". In theory, the best version of Star will help everyones job but to bank on a guy that didnt play football for over a year, and was just average or above average when he did, to come in and re-vamp our defense is a reach.

 

We need to get better on the D-line. So far we have not.

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

How accurate is that chart though? 

Pretty spot on

[C.Biscuit97]

While they probably wont be good, the Jets will be a tough team to place simply because they don’t have a complete weirdo coaching them. We have to have the 3 most in shape coaches in the league - bill and steve Belichick and Daboll. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea... can't say I'm expecting to go 6-0 in the division again.

 

 

6-0 is hard every year but we are still superior to all these teams. But I hate the way some fans just dismiss some of these teams. They all got tough coaches and it will be a dog fight. 

[Boxcar]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea... can't say I'm expecting to go 6-0 in the division again.

 

 

To be fair, you were probably expecting the Bills to go 2-4 or something last year, so....

[MPL]

As a Lawson, I was hoping for a new Lawson on the Bills. It's been too long since Manny Lawson was here. 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

13 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Has every signing been an AFC team?  I don’t remember anyone significant going to an NFC team yet.

It certainly feels that way. I do think the top three teams with cap space were Jacksonville, NE, and the Jets so that explains some of it. But still I wish some of these players would go to the NFC where we wouldn't have to face them as much.

 

The AFC is pretty stacked/deep whereas the NFC is very top heavy IMO and it's looking like that's going to continue. 

[MPL]

5 minutes ago, MPL said:

As a Lawson, I was hoping for a new Lawson on the Bills. It's been too long since Manny Lawson was here. 

Wait, how did I forget about Shaq Lawson? He was a combination of my two favorite people—Shaquille O'Neal and myself. 

[SCBills]

The fact the Bengals let Lawson walk, and then turned around and signed Hendrickson is still so strange to me.