It looks like Bills Management thinks it is the RBs.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I'm interested in Hunt for the right price, but this Lindsay/Wallace scenario you propose.....

 

Coming out of college.......Lindsay at 4.39 and Hunt at 4.62...........that's almost a quarter second difference and we've seen it with Lindsay's highlights.........he looks like the fastest back in the league in the open field.

 

We've come to accept 4.5 as fast for RB...........I want real speed.........if he's healthy he's that.

 

Not that his career trajectory is a lot better than Hunt's.........to me they are both guys who put up huge rookie years and are likely to flame out pretty quick..........but I prefer the cheaper,  faster back in a walk year.....always a huge factor...........over the slower, more expensive one who knows that if he blows up the team will just pick up his roster bonus and he won't get a chance to get a big pay day.

 

[BillsFan130]

5 hours ago, The Governor said:

Yeah, it’s pretty obvious that Motor isn’t a starter. A 10 year old can tell you that.

Believe it or not, some people on this board still think he’s descent.

 

I will never understand it. 

[OldTimer1960]

14 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Believe it or not, some people on this board still think he’s descent.

 

I will never understand it. 

That would be "think he is decent" and I do.  He is not Barry Sanders, but he can be effective as he was in his rookie year at 5+ yards/carry.  

 

Watch his rookie highlights and tell me he can't be at least part of the answer with decent blocking.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by OldTimer1960

[BillsFan130]

39 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

That would be "think he is decent" and I do.  He is not Barry Sanders, but he can be effective as he was in his rookie year at 5+ yards/carry.  

 

Watch his rookie highlights and tell me he can't be at least part of the answer with decent blocking.

 

Ughhhhh. I’ve had so many singletary arguments where I’ve brought up so many stats that show his rookie year stats were inflated.

 

I don’t wanna go down the rabbit hole again.

 

If you think he’s descent then you’re entitled to your opinion , but to answer your question, no he shouldn’t be part of the answer at RB IMO

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Since the season ended the debate has been between those of us, myself included, who think the problem with the running game and the team's abandonment of it is because our RBs aren't very good and those who have blamed it on the O-line.  Well, so far based on the re-signing of Feliciano and Williams, it looks pretty obvious to me that Beane, who in his end of season PC indicated he wasn't pleased with the running game, doesn't think the O-line was the problem.

 

I don't think that quite follows. 

 

It's very clear that the OL was the problem at times.  But Beane and the coaches and staff might have pored over the film and concluded that most of the OL problem was on Winters, or on Boettger, or affected by the injuries Feliciano and Ford were playing with.  They might feel that an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-Mongo-Winters that has some time to practice together and gel in that sequence might be an improvement on the various permutations we played last year.

 

They might also be looking to draft an OL and sign a "middle class" or lower-tier FA they believe could be a sleeper, to add competition.

 

[bigduke6]

never saw much running room for either of our backs for the entirety of the season.    dont think its solely on them.

 

never seemed to be any holes,  backs getting touched of having to break a tackle in the backfield constantly.   mbe it was bad scheme,  mbe the oline is only good at pass pro.  mbe its both.   mbe the backs arent confident running behind our line because they know there wont be a hole,  and gonna have to dodge or break a tackle immediately.  which causes them to hesitate even more.

 

just my 2 cents.

 

resigning isnt always an indicator that something else is the problem,  Beane may be resigning because,  there isnt anything better out there at a reasonable price,  so u resign what u know and work towards getting better at run blocking.

Edited March 16, 2021 by bigduke6

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Since the season ended the debate has been between those of us, myself included, who think the problem with the running game and the team's abandonment of it is because our RBs aren't very good and those who have blamed it on the O-line.  Well, so far based on the re-signing of Feliciano and Williams, it looks pretty obvious to me that Beane, who in his end of season PC indicated he wasn't pleased with the running game, doesn't think the O-line was the problem.  The starting 5 are basically locked in with the exception of LG, which will be either Ford or Boettger.  So IMO Beane knows our RBs suck and will be looking to upgrade at RB, not O-line, either in free agency or the draft.  

 

The lamest excuse I've seen for not upgrading the running back position is that Beane would have to admit he made a mistake drafting a RB in the 3rd round in each of the last 2 drafts.  Beane doesn't seem to be the type whose pride would cause him to keep the status quo at a position of need just because he drafted two 3rd round RBs.  If the Bills were so satisfied with Singletary & Moss as the top 2 RBs, they would have never tried to sign Bell in the middle of this past season.  

 

 

The o-line did a poor job last year on run-blocking.

 

But this team is going to be built mostly around passing. And they did a great job last year at that. 

 

In the same press conference you're referring to he said, "The blocking has to be better." You're taking that to mean that the guys weren't good enough ... but it could easily mean that they need another year under their new line coach, or that they have to further prioritize run blocking this year, even with the same guys. More, Cody Ford missed most of the year. Just getting him back is likely to be a good improvement in run blocking. Ford is a people-mover.

 

And no, you're right, he wouldn't keep things status quo because he drafted two 3rds. But he's made it clear he's reasonably happy with those 3rds, and that's a different kettle of fish. Not that he's thrilled with them, I would guess. But reasonably happy. And I don't think there are many saying he's going to stand pat at RB. Many or most - me too - think it's fairly likely he goes RB on day three sometime or maybe bring in a cheaper FA, or at least strongly consider these options.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Believe it or not, some people on this board still think he’s descent.

 

I will never understand it. 

 

 

Well, that's you.

 

In 2019 he was close to the league lead in YPA. If you don't find that as evidence he's at the very least decent, that says more about you than it does about Motor.

 

 

 

[Augie]

9 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Since the season ended the debate has been between those of us, myself included, who think the problem with the running game and the team's abandonment of it is because our RBs aren't very good and those who have blamed it on the O-line.  Well, so far based on the re-signing of Feliciano and Williams, it looks pretty obvious to me that Beane, who in his end of season PC indicated he wasn't pleased with the running game, doesn't think the O-line was the problem.  The starting 5 are basically locked in with the exception of LG, which will be either Ford or Boettger.  So IMO Beane knows our RBs suck and will be looking to upgrade at RB, not O-line, either in free agency or the draft.  

 

The lamest excuse I've seen for not upgrading the running back position is that Beane would have to admit he made a mistake drafting a RB in the 3rd round in each of the last 2 drafts.  Beane doesn't seem to be the type whose pride would cause him to keep the status quo at a position of need just because he drafted two 3rd round RBs.  If the Bills were so satisfied with Singletary & Moss as the top 2 RBs, they would have never tried to sign Bell in the middle of this past season.  

 

Because we have retained most of the OL and RB’s does NOT mean we don’t want to upgrade either group. We set the floor, now we want to see where the ceiling might be.  Let’s see where FA and the draft takes us before we judge. ONE guy swings HUGE in either direction. Way too soon to make this call. 

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, that's you.

 

In 2019 he was close to the league lead in YPA. If you don't find that as evidence he's at the very least decent, that says more about you than it does about Motor.

 

 

 

Running against soft boxes with gaping holes in 2019.

 

Gore did the dirty work, singletary benefitted from being a change of pace back with light boxes.

 

 

This year? 4.4 YPC with light boxes, and he rarely got the ball on 3rd and short or goal line scenarios which implies he did not produce much at all.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

 

This year? 4.4 YPC with light boxes, and he rarely got the ball on 3rd and short or goal line scenarios which implies he did not produce much at all.

 

 

 

If you think Singletary was bad.........Leonard Fournette ran for a measly 3.8 ypc on the season with Evans, Godwin, AB, Gronk and Brate clearing out the back 7.

 

And Kareem Hunt ran for just 4.2 on a loaded run blocking line.

 

Yes Singletary got extra blocking and had a knack for being on the field for light boxes in 2019..........but the reality is that the Bills OL wasn't blocking it up in 2020........and Singletary ran for 4.4 on a team that averaged 4.2........he wasn't the limiting factor.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If you think Singletary was bad.........Leonard Fournette ran for a measly 3.8 ypc on the season with Evans, Godwin, AB, Gronk and Brate clearing out the back 7.

 

And Kareem Hunt ran for just 4.2 on a loaded run blocking line.

 

Yes Singletary got extra blocking and had a knack for being on the field for light boxes in 2019..........but the reality is that the Bills OL wasn't blocking it up in 2020........and Singletary ran for 4.4 on a team that averaged 4.2........he wasn't the limiting factor.

 

 

4.4 average running with light boxes...

 

Moss had a 4.3 YPC and he got the 3rd and short and goal line touches . And moss was a below average back, so I’m not sure where you’re going with this argument.

 

I don’t know how you can watch singletary last year and think he was descent.

 

It looked like on one side of the field he was running in mud, and the other half he was running on ice.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

4.4 average running with light boxes...

 

Moss had a 4.3 YPC and he got the 3rd and short and goal line touches . And moss was a below average back, so I’m not sure where you’re going with this argument.

 

I don’t know how you can watch singletary last year and think he was descent.

 

It looked like on one side of the field he was running in mud, and the other half he was running on ice.

 

 

Playing out of the shotgun all season..... the 2020 OL run blocking was terrible.

 

Doesn't matter how light the box is if the back is being met by a defender untouched or virtually so in the hole at the LOS.......which was the case far too often.

 

Singletary and Moss both ranked highly among NFL RB's in yards after first contact........so your contention that they were easy outs doesn't match the stats.

 

And it's not uncommon for teams that use 10 and 11 personnel as much as the Bills did to end up not being very good running the ball........despite forcing the other team to play nickel and dime defenses.

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Playing out of the shotgun all season..... the 2020 OL run blocking was terrible.

 

Doesn't matter how light the box is if the back is being met by a defender untouched or virtually so in the hole at the LOS.......which was the case far too often.

 

Singletary and Moss both ranked highly among NFL RB's in yards after first contact........so your contention that they were easy outs doesn't match the stats.

 

And it's not uncommon for teams that use 10 and 11 personnel as much as the Bills did to end up not being very good running the ball........despite forcing the other team to play nickel and dime defenses.

Yep it was bad. But the RBs also did absolutely nothing to help as well as they are too slow.

 

We obviously agree to disagree on this.

 

We can put stats that support our arguments all night but it is not going to change our opinion on the player which is fine.

 

I just think at best he is a change of pace back and he doesn't really possess one skill that is "good" with the exception of maybe making people miss in space at times.

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

That would be "think he is decent" and I do.  He is not Barry Sanders, but he can be effective as he was in his rookie year at 5+ yards/carry.  

 

Watch his rookie highlights and tell me he can't be at least part of the answer with decent blocking.

 

Then watch his lowlights. You’ll be watching for a lot longer

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Playing out of the shotgun all season..... the 2020 OL run blocking was terrible.

 

Doesn't matter how light the box is if the back is being met by a defender untouched or virtually so in the hole at the LOS.......which was the case far too often.

 

Singletary and Moss both ranked highly among NFL RB's in yards after first contact........so your contention that they were easy outs doesn't match the stats.

 

And it's not uncommon for teams that use 10 and 11 personnel as much as the Bills did to end up not being very good running the ball........despite forcing the other team to play nickel and dime defenses.

do you want Singletary in a time share next year with Moss?  Do you think we can win the SB with those 2 guys running the ball behind the same line as last year....if they’re lucky enough to have 4 starters at the end of the year.  
 

You don’t think it would be in our best interests to replace Singletary with a RB that is a threat to score if he gets crack of daylight?  I certainly think we could use a rb with some take it to the house speed.  It would change the way teams defend us

[OrtonHearsaWho]

I think everyone that is placing 100% of the blame on any one thing needs to calm down just a little bit.  Were we amazing at running the ball last year?  Of course not but were we dreadful?  No.  We were average and I think that's a combo of scheme, blocking, actual commitment to the run at times and yes, to the talent in the backfield.

 

If we drafted Etienne I would be fine with that & he is just about the only "home run" threat in the draft at RB but I also think that home run threat is vastly overrated.  Who are some of what we'd consider home run threats?  Dalvin Cook...Nick Chubb...Derrick Henry?  They all have 40 times pretty much the same as both Moss and even Antonio Williams (one of the boards favorite future hall of famers).

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, NewEra said:

do you want Singletary in a time share next year with Moss?  Do you think we can win the SB with those 2 guys running the ball behind the same line as last year....if they’re lucky enough to have 4 starters at the end of the year.  
 

You don’t think it would be in our best interests to replace Singletary with a RB that is a threat to score if he gets crack of daylight?  I certainly think we could use a rb with some take it to the house speed.  It would change the way teams defend us

 

 

I want them to add some speed to the backfield mix..........but yeah they can win a SB with Singletary and Moss being the lead backs.   Runnin' bax aren't that important.  

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I want them to add some speed to the backfield mix..........but yeah they can win a SB with Singletary and Moss being the lead backs.   Runnin' bax aren't that important.  

RBs are important if the opposing defense doesn’t bother to defend them and they can’t make them pay.  Singletary rarely makes anyone pay.  Hopefully it’ll be more Moss than motor

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

RBs are important if the opposing defense doesn’t bother to defend them and they can’t make them pay.  Singletary rarely makes anyone pay.  Hopefully it’ll be more Moss than motor

 

Maybe the Chiefs will waive Damien Williams and then everyone here can get a Super Bowl champion quality RB.

 

Remember him.........4 years a turd in Miami.

 

I don't think much of Motor or Moss..........didn't like drafting either of them...........but backs good enough to win with are still a dime-a-dozen.