A case against continuity

[Augie]

39 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Can we at least wait until free agency starts or better yet, preseason ball before we say everything is the same?

 

So, the baseline is the much same (for a team that played in the AFCCG) BEFORE free agency or the draft. I mean, we still get to participate in those, right??? 

 

This is trying WAY too hard to find a downside, IMO. 

[Perk71]

Before last season started, people would have been estatic if Bills went to AFC championship game. 🤷

 

Guess what, they did and they are trying to get back.  I'm glad they are finally doing well again.  It's been a long 34 years.  I Trust the Process...

 

Go Bills!!

[Doc]

42 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Banking on rookies to come in and play well, particularly at needs like DE, CB, and interior OL from the start is not an effective strategy. 

 

The draft can certainly help. The Bills can also easily free up more cap space by restructuring the younger players. 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Doc

[K-9]

DOOMED!!!

[teef]

Wasn’t the op the guy who was telling us not to worry, and just relax and enjoy the season this past year?

[billsfan89]

13-3 with two playoff victories against pretty good teams is hardly a team you want to blowup because you perceive one team in the conference they can't matchup well against. The case for continuity is to keep that 13 win talent base and then supplement it with veteran reclamation projects on the cheap and the draft. 

[BillsVet]

29 minutes ago, BillsDude said:

To the OP, at 12:00 Beane started working his tampering magic. You may not see it right now, but stay tuned! He likely has 10 phones in his Bills basement and they are all ringing off the hook, and each of his fingers picks up one, while he plays it cool balancing them all, sitting back in his recliner grinning and one by one telling each on the other end what it means to be Buffalo Bill, the financial terms required to be A Bill, and how he can help them succeed and be happy as a Buffalo Bill. Just wait and see, and assume our master magician is at work again This is far from over! Remember Beane never takes a minute off, much less than a day off. He works on Sundays too. He has a master plan, and will go step-by-step to achieve that.

 

With ~6M required for rookie contracts, Buffalo has (unless they re-structure other contracts) about 4M to play with.  Who do you want to restructure or cut to provide more space for UFAs or RFAs? 

 

I also see the usual suspects who lack the ability to analytical dissect the point offered about continuity.  To those individuals...have a nice day. 

[ngbills]

You can assume everyone that played better than expected last year will do the same this year. And everyone that played worse than expected does not matter. 

We let go of Brown, Murphy, Jefferson - these were three of our highest paid players last year. We shifted that money to Milano, Williams and Feliciano who were three of the guys on three bottom of the pay scale. We also let go of Norman, Kroft, Nsekhe three midlevel pay guys to. I am not saying we are worse losing these guys, but if we cant find adequate replacement for them than we are worse. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

I wouldn’t argue against continuity unless we DID NOT have a relentless GM who is always looking to improve this team through any means necessary. 

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

With ~6M required for rookie contracts, Buffalo has (unless they re-structure other contracts) about 4M to play with.  Who do you want to restructure or cut to provide more space for UFAs or RFAs? 

 

I also see the usual suspects who lack the ability to analytical dissect the point offered about continuity.  To those individuals...have a nice day. 

A lot of $ can be freed via DIggs, Dawkins, White

[teef]

10 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

With ~6M required for rookie contracts, Buffalo has (unless they re-structure other contracts) about 4M to play with.  Who do you want to restructure or cut to provide more space for UFAs or RFAs? 

 

I also see the usual suspects who lack the ability to analytical dissect the point offered about continuity.  To those individuals...have a nice day. 

I think most people are just going to let this play out a bit before the complaining starts. 
 

you may think it’s due to posters who, “lack the ability to analytical dissect the point”.   I think it’s more due to people being patient and reasonable. 

[BillsVet]

12 minutes ago, ngbills said:

You can assume everyone that played better than expected last year will do the same this year. And everyone that played worse than expected does not matter. 

We let go of Brown, Murphy, Jefferson - these were three of our highest paid players last year. We shifted that money to Milano, Williams and Feliciano who were three of the guys on three bottom of the pay scale. We also let go of Norman, Kroft, Nsekhe three midlevel pay guys to. I am not saying we are worse losing these guys, but if we cant find adequate replacement for them than we are worse. 

 

None of that matters.  They have no money right now without making other moves and before rookie cap allocation. 

 

2 minutes ago, teef said:

I think most people are just going to let this play out a bit before the complaining starts. 
 

you may think it’s due to posters who, “lack the ability to analytical dissect the point”.   I think it’s more due to people being patient and reasonable. 

 

It's the snarky responses whenever anyone offers a different point of view.  So be it...my take is that if you can't offer an opinion and support it, there's not much use debating. 

 

There's an expectation that Buffalo just will get better...using the same personnel and schemes.  I disagree and will suggest that making the jump to playing in the SB requires more improvement.  We're going to find out if they make the leap.  Go back to the AFC CG where they were suffocated by a solid pass rush, could not do that themselves, their running game was weak, and the defense couldn't stop two of the league's best receivers. 

 

You are how you lost the last game of your season and it was Brandon Beane who said that, not me.  If personnel hasn't changed and  they don't have the room to add other players, then what? Continuity? 

 

[teef]

19 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

 

It's the snarky responses whenever anyone offers a different point of view.  So be it...my take is that if you can't offer an opinion and support it, there's not much use debating. 

 

There's an expectation that Buffalo just will get better...using the same personnel and schemes.  I disagree and will suggest that making the jump to playing in the SB requires more improvement.  We're going to find out if they make the leap.  Go back to the AFC CG where they were suffocated by a solid pass rush, could not do that themselves, their running game was weak, and the defense couldn't stop two of the league's best receivers. 

 

You are how you lost the last game of your season and it was Brandon Beane who said that, not me.  If personnel hasn't changed and  they don't have the room to add other players, then what? Continuity? 

 

i'm not sure the bolded is the case.  it's just so early in this process, and if nothing else, we know that this staff can pull off some pretty unexpected moves.  you may end up being completely right with your concerns, but i'm guessing most people are willing to see what's done first.  

 

i suppose if you think this is the exact team that will walk out on the field in september, so be it.  we'll see more changes.

[Dr. K]

23 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

None of that matters.  They have no money right now without making other moves and before rookie cap allocation. 

 

 

It's the snarky responses whenever anyone offers a different point of view.  So be it...my take is that if you can't offer an opinion and support it, there's not much use debating. 

 

There's an expectation that Buffalo just will get better...using the same personnel and schemes.  I disagree and will suggest that making the jump to playing in the SB requires more improvement.  We're going to find out if they make the leap.  Go back to the AFC CG where they were suffocated by a solid pass rush, could not do that themselves, their running game was weak, and the defense couldn't stop two of the league's best receivers. 

 

You are how you lost the last game of your season and it was Brandon Beane who said that, not me.  If personnel hasn't changed and  they don't have the room to add other players, then what? Continuity? 

 

Your point is reasonable if you assume that the Bills are done and will make no more changes. 

 

But it's a certainty there will be more roster turnover before the season starts with trades, cuts, the draft, pickups of players cut by other teams, etc. Yes, the cap situation makes it harder to make a splash move, but Beane has not been one to sit on his hands and say "Everything's okay as it is." He seems tough minded and creative in roster management.

 

I understand your point, but it's too early to throw up our hands and say the Bills roster will be no better than it was last season. I also expect some of the players who are already on the team, like Epanesa and Oliver, to improve with experience. 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Dr. K

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

On the cusp of a new league year, the latest Bills narrative advanced is that continuity is the way forward.  To that point, they retained pending UFAs while restructuring others now slotting them with less cap space when you consider rookie signing requirements. 

 

Doing the same thing over again, albeit even on a 13-3 team, is no guarantee of success.  Schematically, Buffalo was predictable on both sides of the ball last year and personnel issues have not been addressed for 2021, such as:

 

1. An ineffective running game which didn't get much push on the interior.  Both their starting C and RG have been restructured/retained.  The LG is a RFA and perhaps average.  

2. The inability generate a good pass rush.  Aside from cutting one DLineman, they've largely kept that unit intact and their defense in 2020 was the highest paid unit by more than 9.5M? This will likely remain the case in 2021? 

3.  Teams could throw in Buffalo, even with a very pricey secondary.  That was helped, particularly in the AFC CG, by a defense which sat on its heels. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/2020/defense/

 

Perhaps Buffalo has another signing planned and other roster clipping to make for more cap space.  Perhaps younger guys elevate their level of play.  Perhaps they have a draft pick come in and play well from the start.

 

Retaining the same players who struggled to address those primary issues does not inspire a lot of confidence.  Nor would employing the same offense and defense scheme as the HC is wont to do.  I just don't want to see this team become like the late (EDIT: Green Bay) McCarthy years when they expected to succeed with Rodgers, an average OL and little at the skill positions.  Josh deserves more than the status quo. 

Can we talk more about your awesome use of the 12th century word, "wont"...this qualifies for post of the day, just 'cause!   

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wont

[Mojo44]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Do you know if we didn’t just play in the AFC championship game this thread would mean so much more

The OP should be praising the continuity that has occurred! Instead it’s more like the old saying “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, just tweak it a little bit”

Edited March 15, 2021 by Mojo44

[BillsfaninChicago]

In 2009 when One Brandon Drive was pushing the “continuity” narrative I would have agreed with you. 

[First Round Bust]

good points raised. I think Bills management decided that they way the team came together during the second-half of last season won 2 out of 3 playoff games validated keeping the roster in place given that replacement either were either not as good and or not likely to come here given cap constraints or secondary reasons (the wife or girl not crazy about WNY)...yes...what is the next step to improve the pass rush and middle pass coverage ?  Is Star the answer to stabilzing the interior against the run, is he going to retire or not ?  

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

On the cusp of a new league year, the latest Bills narrative advanced is that continuity is the way forward.  To that point, they retained pending UFAs while restructuring others now slotting them with less cap space when you consider rookie signing requirements. 

 

Doing the same thing over again, albeit even on a 13-3 team, is no guarantee of success.  Schematically, Buffalo was predictable on both sides of the ball last year and personnel issues have not been addressed for 2021, such as:

 

1. An ineffective running game which didn't get much push on the interior.  Both their starting C and RG have been restructured/retained.  The LG is a RFA and perhaps average.  

2. The inability generate a good pass rush.  Aside from cutting one DLineman, they've largely kept that unit intact and their defense in 2020 was the highest paid unit by more than 9.5M? This will likely remain the case in 2021? 

3.  Teams could throw in Buffalo, even with a very pricey secondary.  That was helped, particularly in the AFC CG, by a defense which sat on its heels. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/2020/defense/

 

Perhaps Buffalo has another signing planned and other roster clipping to make for more cap space.  Perhaps younger guys elevate their level of play.  Perhaps they have a draft pick come in and play well from the start.

 

Retaining the same players who struggled to address those primary issues does not inspire a lot of confidence.  Nor would employing the same offense and defense scheme as the HC is wont to do.  I just don't want to see this team become like the late (EDIT: Green Bay) McCarthy years when they expected to succeed with Rodgers, an average OL and little at the skill positions.  Josh deserves more than the status quo. 

 

Good God - what a worthless post at this point.

 

So the Bills that just went 13-3 and made the AFCCG and are working to retain many pieces of the roster is a bad thing?

 

The fact that the team did not have its starting 5 offensive Linemen play 1 snap together.  The fact that they did not have any preseason to adjust either the new O line or D line and had to make those adjustments on the fly.  This all means that we can not get better as Allen learns even more and as Moss gets his NFL body under him and the OLine gets some time together with all 5 starters - maybe some of that will allow Daboll to be a bit different.

 

Maybe they played a more conservative defense because that is what had worked to slow down KC prior - now TB showed a different way - do you think the Bills might be able to adapt?  Do you think the Bills can better adapt as they know exactly what their team can do?

 

Do you think the Bills might still get players in FA and the draft.  And if you are going to use the draft understand they need a bit over 3 million (not the 6 million BS you spout) because of where they are drafting and the top 51 players for the cap.  So that doubles what they have left with some other potential money still available.

 

My God - I could understand if this was the middle of September and they were struggling, but with FA just starting - you should turn your fan card in and go sit in time out to think about what you said.

 

🤦‍♂️

Edited March 15, 2021 by Rochesterfan

[mjt328]

First of all, it's way too early to make any assumptions about how this offseason is going to play out.

Several cap experts in the media have shown that with a few restructures (like many other teams are doing), the Bills can still clear another $20-30 million.  They have plenty of room to sign additional talent.  History has always shown the best bargains in free agency come from either re-signing your own guys, or by waiting until the first wave is over.  

 

Second, the Bills were a Hail-Murray away from finishing 14-2 last year, and one game away from the Super Bowl.  It's not a fluke.  They are close.

Clearly the Kansas City Chiefs (who we were 0-2 against) are the next big hurdle, and we need to make some improvements to get there.  But every season is going be a mix of trying to improve your weak areas, while trying to sustain current success.  You need to know where to make the additions, and where to make the subtractions.  It's not simply one or the other.

 

Third... assuming the Chiefs are the next big hurdle... it's important to recognize that Buffalo's offense was arguably better/equal to the Chiefs last year.  We scored more points than Kansas City, finishing #2 in scoring behind the Packers.  We were also only 20 yards per game behind Kansas City (also finishing #2).  So although I agree that steps should be taken to improve the run game, we need to be very careful not to upset what is working.  And overhauling the O-Line is a recipe for possibly taking a step back in pass blocking... and ruining what worked well in 2020.  

 

I think a better strategy is to focus this offseason on improving the defense, which finished right in the middle of the NFL.  We were 16th in scoring defense and 14th in yards allowed per game.  We struggled to stop the run.  Our pass rush was inconsistent.  And we had no answers for the Chiefs receiving weapons in either game we played them. 

 

In my opinion, keeping continuity along the O-Line is a great strategy by Brandon Beane.  He can still aim for upgrades on our running backs or at left guard.  But at least now he's not trying to fill holes left by guys actually playing well.