CB in 1st round

[glazeduck]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree pass rusher is the greatest need. I just don't expect there to be a day one difference maker there at #30 who fits this scheme. Maybe someone like Joseph Ossai who they are scouting is, but he is a bit of a project for a team like the Bills because he needs a LOT of work as a down lineman. I'm fine with taking him, he is a high ceiling guy. I just don't know that he is that missing piece for 2021. Azeez Ojulari could get there, he again is not a natural scheme fit and is a bit smaller than Ossai which means I am more concerned about his ability to transition even in the longer term. I don't think a guy like Carlos Basham is worth a first round pick but if they went that route he is a bigger end who is going to play the run and be stout at the point of attack but who I don't really see as a dynamic pass rusher. 

 

So the question you have to ask is if there is a high ceiling guy at another premium position who is a more natural scheme fit for this team then should the Bills prioritise their need over someone who could make more impact immediately and still have that long term difference making potential? It's tough and being at #30 it is too hard to predict how the board will fall in front of them and what their options will look like. But if they are saying "Edge at #30, no matter what" that is the wrong approach. I am very sure that is not the way they are looking at it. 

Agree with a lot of this, but Beane has said time and again that he'll identify his guy and go get him. Ossai or Phillips might not last all the way until 30, but I think either could very feasibly fall into the mid 20s, in which case a trade up wouldn't be prohibitively expensive...

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I don’t mind taking a flyer on a guy in the late rounds, but y’all seriously want a guy in the first 2 rounds w/ the holes we have on this team? Pass rusher is what we need so this defense can go back to top form. 

 

Besides pass rusher, what other holes are you referring to?  I agree that pass rusher is the bigger issue, but do feel there's better chance of drafting a CB at #30 who can contribute and start right away than a DE or TE.

 

More hoping to see they still address edge thru FA , maybe the guy from the Bengals Benson believe was his name?

[I'm Spartacus]

2 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

The old man was a safety, not a cb.  He was not the impact player we should have gotten w a #1. (to small)

How old are you? Antoine Winfield was an pro bowl CORNERBACK and one of the surest tacklers in the NFL!

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Which pass rusher are we drafting at 30 who is going to be an instant difference maker? This DE class = meh

 

Yeah, we need a FA pass rusher.  At 30, I'm going straight up BPA, which is likely to be either LB, RB, OL, or IDL, IMO.  

[John from Riverside]

I am thinking about what they probably will do

 

They did have success with White at the end of the first round.

 

Would not shock me to see a big nickel kind of guy

[BarleyNY]

There should be good value for a CB at 30.  Probably well into second round talents by that pick but we’d have our pick of the majority of that tier CBs.  We will have to see how things fall.  

[appoo]

Would be a hard no for me. I like BPA, but within reason and also when you don't have any holes to fill.

 

Right now, I think the bills will enter the draft with two significant holes, and two weaknesses, one of which they may or may not have an answer in house for.

 

Holes:

 

1) Premier EDGE rusher. I don't see how they fill this at this point, without a trade and extend deal, such as Danielle Hunter. You could go out and sign someone like Lawson, Hassan Reddick, Ngukue (sp?), or Clowney - but you can't really justify them as being legit upgrades over both Hughes and Addison, which is what you're looking for. I would have said that about Watt or Shaq, but those guys aren't available anymore. Bills also aren't going to find this player by drafting someone at 30.

 

2) TE. This one I think they can fill by staying at 30, but it's basically Pat Friermuth or not at all, as there just aren't enough 1st round caliber TEs this year. Fry would be an excellent fit though, as he's got the size and athletecism to be an elite combo TE. He's not a guy that's going to run past defenders, but he's got great hands, very nimble, and will punish defenders running with the ball, and he's got a pretty good understanding of running routes. He's also got all the tools you'd want in an elite run blocking TE - something he didn't have to do too much of at Penn State, as they often had him running routes instead. If they can't get Fry, then they probably run with the what they have. Mix and Match Dawson and Lee Smith depending on match up and game plan.

 

Weaknesses:

 

1) #2 corner. Levi Wallace is probably an average #2 corner, and there's potential for Dane Jackson to surpass him. But this isn't so weak that you invest a first rounder on.

 

2) Speed WR. Here you have some options Kadarius Toney, Tutu Atwell, Rondale Moore, etc would be interesting picks at 61 or 94. Maybe someone like Kenny Stills. I know MLJ has been ban hammering away for Travis Etienne and he might be an interesting speed prospect as well

[OldTimer1960]

6 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

HIs old m an never lived up to his draft status.....

Disagree - I think that Antoine Winfield was very good and had a long NFL career.

6 minutes ago, appoo said:

Would be a hard no for me. I like BPA, but within reason and also when you don't have any holes to fill.

 

Right now, I think the bills will enter the draft with two significant holes, and two weaknesses, one of which they may or may not have an answer in house for.

 

Holes:

 

1) Premier EDGE rusher. I don't see how they fill this at this point, without a trade and extend deal, such as Danielle Hunter. You could go out and sign someone like Lawson, Hassan Reddick, Ngukue (sp?), or Clowney - but you can't really justify them as being legit upgrades over both Hughes and Addison, which is what you're looking for. I would have said that about Watt or Shaq, but those guys aren't available anymore. Bills also aren't going to find this player by drafting someone at 30.

 

2) TE. This one I think they can fill by staying at 30, but it's basically Pat Friermuth or not at all, as there just aren't enough 1st round caliber TEs this year. Fry would be an excellent fit though, as he's got the size and athletecism to be an elite combo TE. He's not a guy that's going to run past defenders, but he's got great hands, very nimble, and will punish defenders running with the ball, and he's got a pretty good understanding of running routes. He's also got all the tools you'd want in an elite run blocking TE - something he didn't have to do too much of at Penn State, as they often had him running routes instead. If they can't get Fry, then they probably run with the what they have. Mix and Match Dawson and Lee Smith depending on match up and game plan.

 

Weaknesses:

 

1) #2 corner. Levi Wallace is probably an average #2 corner, and there's potential for Dane Jackson to surpass him. But this isn't so weak that you invest a first rounder on.

 

2) Speed WR. Here you have some options Kadarius Toney, Tutu Atwell, Rondale Moore, etc would be interesting picks at 61 or 94. Maybe someone like Kenny Stills. I know MLJ has been ban hammering away for Travis Etienne and he might be an interesting speed prospect as well

I don’t think Moore ok Toney will be around late in round 2.

40 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Yeah, we need a FA pass rusher.  At 30, I'm going straight up BPA, which is likely to be either LB, RB, OL, or IDL, IMO.  

I would add CB as possible BPA as well.

[appoo]

6 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Disagree - I think that Antoine Winfield was very good and had a long NFL career.

I don’t think Moore ok Toney will be around late in round 2.

I would add CB as possible BPA as well.

If Toney was available at 30, I'd snag him, if Friermuth wasn't available.

[OldTimer1960]

2 hours ago, glazeduck said:

Agree with a lot of this, but Beane has said time and again that he'll identify his guy and go get him. Ossai or Phillips might not last all the way until 30, but I think either could very feasibly fall into the mid 20s, in which case a trade up wouldn't be prohibitively expensive...

Question is are either of them worth trading 2nd or 3rd to move up for?  Phillips has a lot of injury history and even quit football at one point.  Not sure if Ossai is that good or not.

[ndirish1978]

There is a LOT of value at CB outside of the 1st round. With us picking at 30 we may as well wait til round 2 to pick up a Melinfowu or Joseph, we could wait a bit later and still get Mukuamu or Trill Williams. I'd love to pick up Shaun Wade or Haseem Nasirildeen as our Big Nickel in the 2-3 range. Because of that, we should look to another position in the 1st. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by ndirish1978

[glazeduck]

6 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

There is a LOT of value at CB outside of the 1st round. With us picking at 30 we may as well wait til round 2 to pick up a Melinfowu or Joseph, we could wait a bit later and still get Mukuamu or Trill Williams. I'd love to pick up Shaun Wade or Haseem Nasirildeen as our Big Nickel in the 2-3 range. Because of that, we should look to another position in the 1st. 

I don't feel like Mukuamu's getting talked about enough and Trill and Joseph both feel like their best FB is still ahead of them. I personally think Wade is a pretty decent fit @ corner for us too...

[Rigotz]

5 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

The old man was a safety, not a cb.  He was not the impact player we should have gotten w a #1. (to small)

 

You need a history lesson, my friend.

 

Antoine Winfield was a CORNERBACK for the Bills and Vikings and he was a very good one.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

8 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Which pass rusher are we drafting at 30 who is going to be an instant difference maker? This DE class = meh

You never know who might fall or if we trade up. Maybe Beane finds a diamond in the rough. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

why is CB not a hole that we need to fill?

 

Levi isn’t that good.  We have no clue if Dane is good.  Injuries happen all the time (Tre’davious, Norman, Wallace and Dan all

missed games last season).

 

Yes, pass rush needs to be upgraded.....but so does CB2.  It IS a hole and if CB is BPA in any round when we pick, they should definitely be considered.  It’s a passing league and corners are vital.  Not sure if there are any pass rushers in the draft that will make an instant impact 

It’s always a hole every year for almost every team. Good GMs draft CBs every year. I just don’t think it’s a big enough one where we need to get someone within the first 2 rounds. White, Johnson, Wallace = a solid group IMO. You may be right though seeing how much his regime values defensive backs.
 

Wallace sealed the game against the Steelers with that pick and has played damn well for an undrafted guy. He’s not top tier, but he’s a average #2. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

This entire thread makes me feel like a trade back or two is more likely in the cards. Not many 1st round grades, but many in the 2nd-4th.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Besides pass rusher, what other holes are you referring to?  I agree that pass rusher is the bigger issue, but do feel there's better chance of drafting a CB at #30 who can contribute and start right away than a DE or TE.

 

More hoping to see they still address edge thru FA , maybe the guy from the Bengals Benson believe was his name?

 
 

1) DE 2) TE 3) RG 4) RB

[appoo]

14 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 
 

1) DE 2) TE 3) RG 4) RB

RG isn't any longer. Not a lot of guys I'd want at 30 vs getting a 2nd second rounder and maybe a 4th.

[NewEra]

57 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

It’s always a hole every year for almost every team. Good GMs draft CBs every year. I just don’t think it’s a big enough one where we need to get someone within the first 2 rounds. White, Johnson, Wallace = a solid group IMO. You may be right though seeing how much his regime values defensive backs.
 

Wallace sealed the game against the Steelers with that pick and has played damn well for an undrafted guy. He’s not top tier, but he’s a average #2. 

They are a decent group that our coaching staff won’t consider put in man against the chiefs for a second.  Making our defense one dimensional.  Just like our offense. We might be able to get by with those guys vs KC but our O is going to have to put up 35+...... unless we get Danielle Hunter

 

and as it turns out, they didn’t even tender Wallace....he may not even return. I think we need another good corner

Edited March 16, 2021 by NewEra

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 
 

1) DE 2) TE 3) RG 4) RB

 

Hope you're not expecting any of those make a contribution to improve the team in 2021.  A RG may start as a sub, the DE and RB would likely be inactive.  Maybe the TE is active and plays when they go with 12 personal, but expecting much out of a rookie TE on a team with SB aspirations is likely going to be disappointing.