Miami trading Shaq Lawson to Texans

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Really? Check the pass rusher market. There are tons of options better than Addison.

 

This year 100%. I took it that he meant last year.

[Freddie's Dead]

I remember thinking like all the draft gurus out there that we got the steal of the draft when Shaq dropped to us at 19.   

[DJB]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Really? Check the pass rusher market. There are tons of options better than Addison.

 

Namely? 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

 

He hasn't lived up to expectations and I'm guessing Beane thought he was going to get more sacks. 

 

But who else could he have signed? 

He could have signed Lawson and cut Murphy.  Bills would have gotten similar production and spent less money in total.  The downside would have been a longer commitment to Lawson then he made to Addison - of course Lawson being years younger though

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Poor Texans, for thinking Shaq will give them the pass rush they desperately need...Lol

 

Shaq’s name actually pass rushes better than the actual player...😉

May be Rex Ryan is secretly their General Manager !!!

[Mango]

8 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

Houston is going to  4-3 D and does not need 2 ILB.  Makes sense for both teams.

Yeah, I don’t get the Shaq hate on this one. Houston is a mess at the moment, but this deal does not seem to be part of that dysfunction.

 

Looks like a pretty even trade and both teams fixed some need. 

[DJB]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He could have signed Lawson and cut Murphy.  Bills would have gotten similar production and spent less money in total.  The downside would have been a longer commitment to Lawson then he made to Addison - of course Lawson being years younger though

 

I dont see that as any upgrade. We would still be looking for a pass rushing DE but locked into a longer contract with Shaq

 

 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

I heard he was a starter, right off the bus 🤔

[billsfan89]

Seems like a mutually beneficial trade. 

8 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

I dont see that as any upgrade. We would still be looking for a pass rushing DE but locked into a longer contract with Shaq

 

 

Should have cut Murphy and not signed Shaq but I would rather have had Murphy on a one and done than be tied to Shaq now

[colin]

10 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Seems like a mutually beneficial trade. 

Should have cut Murphy and not signed Shaq but I would rather have had Murphy on a one and done than be tied to Shaq now

 

not certain i agree with that, but to be honest it comes down to how shaq's contract was done.  if it gave us wiggle room then i say he was the better choice, but ya if it's bonus heavy then i see your point.

 

obviously some mistakes on the DL were made.  stats and such aside, shaq and phillips (not to mention Star) were bigger more physical guys.  That adds up on blockers making it harder for them to get up and blow out our DBs and LBs.  and the lesson learned here, not at all forgotten by bean based on his off season moves this season, is the FA never helps the team he goes to as much as he hurts the team he leaves (obviously there are big exceptions, but that's the rule).

 

the above said, i still have a suspicion we will take at least one other shot at a real pass rusher, and draft a plug for our DL, i also think we get some kind of RB/TE or even both in the draft.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

Looks like easterby got to him

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

19 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He only played a grand total of 4 games last year and finished the season on the IR. Lawson ( while not great) didn’t do that bad of a job last year. It seems like Miami may have lost this trade. 

 

The problem with trying to decide a winner or loser in this trade is - I don’t think the player for player trade was the point.

 

I think Miami recognized that the DE market was flooded with talent of guys similar or better than Shaq.  Conversely the ILB FA market is very limited.  
 

Miami makes this trade to be able to go after a FA DE this year and gets an ILB that they could not find on the FA market.

 

If Miami is able to get a top flight DE for a good contract - they win this trade.  If they get shut out and get a mid tier out lower guy in the same vein as Shaq and have to over pay just like last year - then Houston did just fine.  Miami paid most of the bonus money end you know what you are getting with Lawson.

[Seoulofstone]

7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The problem with trying to decide a winner or loser in this trade is - I don’t think the player for player trade was the point.

 

I think Miami recognized that the DE market was flooded with talent of guys similar or better than Shaq.  Conversely the ILB FA market is very limited.  
 

Miami makes this trade to be able to go after a FA DE this year and gets an ILB that they could not find on the FA market.

 

If Miami is able to get a top flight DE for a good contract - they win this trade.  If they get shut out and get a mid tier out lower guy in the same vein as Shaq and have to over pay just like last year - then Houston did just fine.  Miami paid most of the bonus money end you know what you are getting with Lawson.

 

In a way I agree. Miami want sacks from the edge, but it begs the question why did they take Shaq in the first place?

 

 But if McKinney is done or they simply cut him for extra cap space, then they gave up a rotational DE for an older LB who is a liability in coverage and swapped their 7th for a 5th. Was that worth it to get a bit more space when you already have plenty of cap? Can they be sure they're getting sacks in FA?Perhaps no great loss either way but it reads to me like indecisiveness.

 

 There has been continual improvement under Flores but things are about to get harder now that they aren't playing a last place schedule. They won't have Fitz to save them next year. I think they will regret losing a solid edge setter.

 

  

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, colin said:

 

not certain i agree with that, but to be honest it comes down to how shaq's contract was done.  if it gave us wiggle room then i say he was the better choice, but ya if it's bonus heavy then i see your point.

 

obviously some mistakes on the DL were made.  stats and such aside, shaq and phillips (not to mention Star) were bigger more physical guys.  That adds up on blockers making it harder for them to get up and blow out our DBs and LBs.  and the lesson learned here, not at all forgotten by bean based on his off season moves this season, is the FA never helps the team he goes to as much as he hurts the team he leaves (obviously there are big exceptions, but that's the rule).

 

the above said, i still have a suspicion we will take at least one other shot at a real pass rusher, and draft a plug for our DL, i also think we get some kind of RB/TE or even both in the draft.

 

 

 

My issue wasn't letting Shaq and Phillips walk it was more so signing Addison and Butler. I think that even if they were to getting a bit less dead cap on Shaq and Phillips it was still the right move to let them walk. They spent about 17 million in cap space on the combination of Butler and Addison and while they weren't completely unproductive they definitely didn't provide 17 million worth of value in 2020. I am not sure where else they could have put that money but for 17 million in cap space they could have definitely done a better job. I think even had they spent 18-20 million on Shaq and Phillips I don't see that having worked out any better.

[C.Biscuit97]

Still would have Shaq than Murphy. But Shaq is not a special pass rusher.

[Rochesterfan]

4 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

 

In a way I agree. Miami want sacks from the edge, but it begs the question why did they take Shaq in the first place?

 

 But if McKinney is done or they simply cut him for extra cap space, then they gave up a rotational DE for an older LB who is a liability in coverage and swapped their 7th for a 5th. Was that worth it to get a bit more space when you already have plenty of cap? Can they be sure they're getting sacks in FA?Perhaps no great loss either way but it reads to me like indecisiveness.

 

 There has been continual improvement under Flores but things are about to get harder now that they aren't playing a last place schedule. They won't have Fitz to save them next year. I think they will regret losing a solid edge setter.

 

  

 

They took Shaq last year because he was one of the better DEs on the FA market and it took a player from a rival that they had knowledge of.  I think they knew what type of DE that Lawson was, but they signed a bunch of LBs - like Van Noy to pressure the passer.  Last year there was limited DE talent and lots of LBs.  They signed a few LBs and one of the top DEs.  
 

As the Dolphins look at the upcoming FA period - they see a lot of talent at DE and almost no talent at ILB.  With the cutting of Van Noy - they needed LB help and I believe much like Beane - Grier looks at what is coming up and uses that to plot a path.  Therefore you acquire an ILB to fill a position of need and open up a spot so you can aggressively pursue a better DE.  You moved the need from LB to DE at a time when the FA class has a bunch of DEs.  

 

I think it was less about the players and more about the positions.  You now have depth at LB and can pursue talent in the draft and a hole at DE with perhaps as many as six DEs available that could improve your team.

 

Your point about improvement is correct, but improvement for Miami is really wrapped up in QB.  Does Tua develop with a few new weapons or not.  If the defense can stay the same (as they had a great year last year) - then the question becomes can the offense generate more and that will be the deciding factor in improvement.
 

 

[Seoulofstone]

19 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

As the Dolphins look at the upcoming FA period - they see a lot of talent at DE and almost no talent at ILB.  With the cutting of Van Noy - they needed LB help and I believe much like Beane - Grier looks at what is coming up and uses that to plot a path.  Therefore you acquire an ILB to fill a position of need and open up a spot so you can aggressively pursue a better DE.  You moved the need from LB to DE at a time when the FA class has a bunch of DEs.  

 

 

 That works if McKinney is good. But he has been a liability in coverage and is a pure run stuff LB. The danger is that they assume the position is covered and leave it at that then McKinney actually turns out to be what he has been for the last few years. There are good ILBs in the draft.

 

 Also, it assumes that A they can secure an FA upgrade at DE and B he lives up to his contract. If you keep bringing people in and dumping them it is hard to build a unit. I am predicting the Miami D regresses. JMO.

 

  I get your logic though and time will tell.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Seoulofstone

[DolFAN93]

42 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

They took Shaq last year because he was one of the better DEs on the FA market and it took a player from a rival that they had knowledge of.  I think they knew what type of DE that Lawson was, but they signed a bunch of LBs - like Van Noy to pressure the passer.  Last year there was limited DE talent and lots of LBs.  They signed a few LBs and one of the top DEs.  
 

As the Dolphins look at the upcoming FA period - they see a lot of talent at DE and almost no talent at ILB.  With the cutting of Van Noy - they needed LB help and I believe much like Beane - Grier looks at what is coming up and uses that to plot a path.  Therefore you acquire an ILB to fill a position of need and open up a spot so you can aggressively pursue a better DE.  You moved the need from LB to DE at a time when the FA class has a bunch of DEs.  

 

I think it was less about the players and more about the positions.  You now have depth at LB and can pursue talent in the draft and a hole at DE with perhaps as many as six DEs available that could improve your team.

 

Your point about improvement is correct, but improvement for Miami is really wrapped up in QB.  Does Tua develop with a few new weapons or not.  If the defense can stay the same (as they had a great year last year) - then the question becomes can the offense generate more and that will be the deciding factor in improvement.
 

 

Bingo! Flores' defense is moreso centered around pressure. If he had to choose between a guy that's guaranteed to get 10+ sacks or DE/LB that causes consistent pressure, he's choosing the latter. Much easier to find a guy like that as opposed to a former Pro-Bowl LB; Lawson, Judon, Clowney, etc are better than Shaq.

 

 A weakness in the defense, aside from lack of a consistent pass rush, was defending the run. Bringing in McKinney now allows Flores to utilize our coverage backer, Jerome Baker, more effectively. 

 

Like most teams, Miami's success will depend on if they can build a run game and get weapons for Tua. 

[DJB]

19 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Really? Check the pass rusher market. There are tons of options better than Addison.

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, DJB said:

 

Namely? 

 

 

I guess you don't plan on answering this one? 

Edited March 15, 2021 by DJB