machine gun kelly Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 WG, I know the steps. I was trained to be a Licensed Psychotherapist and practiced for five years and treated patients with addictions among other things before going into business. I’ve attended professionally to gain some understanding and interviewed many reformed alcoholics to better understand the influence had over them. As to the lambo and the outing of himself, I’ve known many alcoholics who were very comfortable sharing with acquaintances. What they told me is it is a very personal decision to be vocal or not about their addiction. I asked one guy was there ever a concern you’re employer would hold it against you, and he said that is one risk for some, especially if they drive fir work like a salesperson. I honestly don’t know if he went from social to heavy drinking to alcoholism. It is a progressive disease. I’m just happy he acknowledged and is working to remain sober so in that position, good for him. WG, I know you’re trying to be helpful so thank you. 3
JMF2006 Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 13 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said: Pretty hefty post there sir, without providing a link. Buffalo Bills safety Jordan Poyer says he's one year sober (espn.com) https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31059386/buffalo-bills-safety-jordan-poyer-says-one-year-sober Congrats on one year sober Jordan the first step is admitting you have a problem which you did. Don't be ashamed it happens to lots of us and with your position you can influence and help other people just by speaking out. Next month I will celebrate 32 years on the wagon of sobriety I always say " just because its legal it doesn't make right" 6 5
CSBill Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 A courageous move in taking the steps to get clean, and then going public to help others (and to up the accountability). Thank you, Jordan Poyer. 1 2
JGMcD2 Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 6 hours ago, DrPJax said: Always have great respect for your insight and feel a kinship as we have been here / followed the Bills many years. Just didn’t seem like your typical quality / demeanor. I mean you know this board , it’s filled with good analysis and also a lot of very funny guys posting humorous stuff all the time. It’s not some place of literary genius or puritanical thought. It is what it is, a simple message board. No one on here in my experience ever truly means to be hurtful and I am certain none here would turn their backs on Someone in need or make light of a serious illness ( look at responses to pancho / pinto Ron’s surgery / someone losing a mom or josh losing a grandmother etc), and I know alcoholism would be included. We have all said less than ideal things at times , amplified by our lack of professional comedic talent. So, why be surprised that in an attempt to lighten things , joke a little, a couple of posts missed the mark ? Ideal, no. Worthy of character assault , adding nothing more positive by calling a dick move, just adds another attack criticizing those who attacked poyer in your analysis. Perhaps it compounds things, forgetting we all.live in glass houses so who is qualified ti throw stones?! Just saying it’s a message board of people who usually stand together, nothing of real social consequence going on here, and maybe we should all defer our need to be negative. Post when adding something that should not provoke more bad feelings, and do that old thing; if you can’t be positive ( on personal attributes etc) then why not just skip by what offends you , and not add more fuel to a fire? Just saying it’s a simple message board , is it enhanced by personal judgements on character or would it be better / just as good by skipping posting at times ? Not meant as an attack on someone I really appreciate on here, just feels like sometimes a person can’t even post a legit critical OPINION-of the Bills without personal attacks levied and it’s like cancel culture run amuck. Just a simple message board and I doubt anyone here would make light of poyer s. Issue IRL, in person. Not the first or last time there will be missed attempts at humor on here; easy to scroll past ! 😊 Not meant to offend, just thinking we can keep it light here, btw, always read and enjoy your insight on the Bills! Coming into a serious thread and making your first comments in that thread a joke about someone’s addiction shouldn’t sit well with anyone and deserves to be called out. It doesn’t matter what the intention is... it’s in poor taste. If you want to let that kind of behavior go unchecked... that’s fine. It’s not cancel culture... they’re still going to be here and that’s part of the reason for doing it... to avoid similar situations in the future. It’s calling someone out for inappropriate behavior... if this is a simple message board of like minded people... having a standard and some intramember accountability shouldn’t be an issue with anyone. I like to believe everyone on here would help someone who is in serious need and I’m sure everyone does... but what you say and do behind closed doors or in this case with a cloak of anonymity on a message board seems like a more accurate representation of how you truly feel. I would say keeping someone accountable and pointing out inappropriate behavior and making jokes about someone’s addiction are on two different ends of the spectrum.
machine gun kelly Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 20 minutes ago, JMF2006 said: Buffalo Bills safety Jordan Poyer says he's one year sober (espn.com) https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31059386/buffalo-bills-safety-jordan-poyer-says-one-year-sober Congrats on one year sober Jordan the first step is admitting you have a problem which you did. Don't be ashamed it happens to lots of us and with your position you can influence and help other people just by speaking out. Next month I will celebrate 32 years on the wagon of sobriety I always say " just because its legal it doesn't make right" Congrats JMF. 32 years is quite the accomplishment. Sincerely. Dan (MGK) 1 1
Gugny Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 7 hours ago, DrPJax said: Not meant to offend, just thinking we can keep it light here, btw, always read and enjoy your insight on the Bills! No offense taken, Doc. And the feelings are mutual. Be well and go Bills! 2 1
JMF2006 Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said: Congrats JMF. 32 years is quite the accomplishment. Sincerely. Dan (MGK) Thanks Dan
Niagara Dude Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 15 hours ago, Markaf431 said: My wife pointed this out so I don’t have a link, but Jordan Poyer just posted and discussed how he’s struggled with alcoholism. Not really anything to back it up but if I can find a way to link to it I will. https://www.instagram.com/p/CMYCM2jny1Y/?hl=en edited for link I wish him success but have to admit i am concerned for any player to have this a problem. 1
JMF2006 Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said: I wish him success but have to admit i am concerned for any player to have this a problem. How many players remain silent while hiding substance abuse problems? Too me thats far more concerning. It takes a lot of strength and courage to do this when your still playing. Plus his play on the field has taken a huge upswing with a career year. He should be celebrated not shamed or scorned 4
Billzfan37 Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 15 hours ago, Joe Mama said: What disturbs me is saying he was an alcoholic. I stopped drinking 17 years ago, and have not had a drink since, but I am still an alcoholic. Once a cucumber gets pickled it becomes a pickle to never be a cucumber again. This is such AA regurgitated crap - you're not always an "alcoholic forever" any more than you have to "yield to a higher power" - the two stupidest things about AA (and why it will be dead as an organization soon) are the "once an alcoholic, forever an alcoholic" and all of the Jesus pseudo Christian crap... all the 12 steps and all that are fine, so is the sponsorship and regular meetings for those who need it, but those other two things aren't universal laws for drinkers. 1 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 18 minutes ago, Billzfan37 said: This is such AA regurgitated crap - you're not always an "alcoholic forever" any more than you have to "yield to a higher power" - the two stupidest things about AA (and why it will be dead as an organization soon) are the "once an alcoholic, forever an alcoholic" and all of the Jesus pseudo Christian crap... all the 12 steps and all that are fine, so is the sponsorship and regular meetings for those who need it, but those other two things aren't universal laws for drinkers. You seem to have a lot of energy here. I don't want to argue, because I truly believe everyone has to find their own path here and that actually it's a bit of a problem that so many treatment programs do take a 12-step model because there are people who just can't relate. Addiction is a horrid problem to which there seem no sure-fire treatments as of today and it sucks. On the other hand, I wanted to respond because I kind of see three issues here: 1) whether 12-step programs are a good approach to addiction treatment. you seem to acknowledge the benefit for some, I can acknowledge it's not for everyone so maybe we have more common ground here than it first appears? 2) whether addiction (to alcohol or other) is, in fact, a lifelong issue - whether you're an "alcoholic forever" 3) whether a strategy other than complete abstinence can be effective treatment On the last point, I used Google to find something that I thought would be straightforward to read and in agreement with current research as far as I know it. (Some people confuse this with not knowing anything besides what I just Googled, but that's kinda their problem, not mine.). Here's what I found: https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/alcohol-abstinence-vs-moderation Conclusion: Quote Research into moderate or "controlled" drinking has shown that this strategy can be successful for patients who have not yet developed a pervasive pattern of alcohol abuse, or who have experienced few negative consequences from drinking. It also helps to be young, female, employed, in a stable social situation, and confident about moderating intake. The goal is to help patients set goals and drinking limits before they cross the line into dependence. But the research shows clearly that moderation is unlikely to be successful for patients who already meet criteria for dependence, whether defined by the DSM-IV or by a variety of assessment tools. Data from one study. Success meant maintaining personal goal for >12 months. Their point being that for low levels of dependence by DSM-IV criteria, moderation might be successful but for higher dependence scores, success at abstinence -vs- moderation flipped from roughly 1:2, to 2:1 then to zippo success at the "moderation" thing. I think most people who have gotten to the point where they're seeing impacts in their marriage, friends, work - are probably past the point where moderation will likely be a successful strategy. But that's just my hunch, and if your mileage or the mileage of someone you know varies, I'm honestly delighted. Provided a person puts some protections to others in place (they should never drink and drive), I don't think any treatment has the track record of success to say "my way or the highway" here, but some pathways do have more success than others. PS I hope you're mistaken that AA and its sibling organizations will be dead as an organization soon because it helps a lot of folks. 3 1 1
ghostwriter Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 Yep, I had that problem for years but I’ve got about 4 years of sobriety now. Not an easy thing to do but my faith in God made it possible for me. 🙏 2 6
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 4 hours ago, JMF2006 said: Buffalo Bills safety Jordan Poyer says he's one year sober (espn.com) https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31059386/buffalo-bills-safety-jordan-poyer-says-one-year-sober Congrats on one year sober Jordan the first step is admitting you have a problem which you did. Don't be ashamed it happens to lots of us and with your position you can influence and help other people just by speaking out. Next month I will celebrate 32 years on the wagon of sobriety I always say " just because its legal it doesn't make right" Congratulations man. That's great.Have a buddy recently maybe jaundice from drinking all time. Only 25 color skin yellow eyes yellow. Got him quit drinking past 6 days going he'sto see someone tomorrow. Hoping everything okay is a worries. Happy for Jordan as well. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said: Congratulations man. That's great.Have a buddy recently maybe jaundice from drinking all time. Only 25 color skin yellow eyes yellow. Got him quit drinking past 6 days going he'sto see someone tomorrow. Hoping everything okay is a worries. Happy for Jordan as well. Pulling for your friend, man. I hope he finds something that works for him. 2 1 1
Bill from NYC Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) I have what might seem like mixed views on this thread: 1) I am glad that he came forward. I didn't believe in AA until I saw many of my friends join, and it improved their lives 10 fold. 2) Do I think the poses sitting on a 150K car appeared to be a bit vain? Yes. I think that doing this was somewhat ill advised. I understand the assertion that a man who drank away his Ford Maverick might be turned off by seeing this. Do I hate, or even dislike him for the pics? No, I do not. 3) As far as his wife and AB, I don't remember ever hearing about this. I do however know just a little about domestic issues so here goes: I don't know the whole story but remember, Poyer and the average poster here getting divorced are 2 entirely different scenarios. Do they have kids? If so child support alone is 25% of your GROSS salary for 2 kids in NY, and guess who pays the tax on it? The house would be hers (can't upset the kid's living environment), and maybe that lovely car as well. Alimony would cost him millions, and it's no longer federally tax deductible for new divorcees. The person who pays the alimony CANNOT claim it, and the receipient does not have to. Old divorcees are grandfathered in; I think the cutoff is either 2016 or 2018. He just might not want to pay. And to be fair to his wife, Poyer is a young, strong, handsome, rich athlete with fans, and an admitted alcoholic. I don't know, could he have possibly have been sleeping around too? I would say it might be possible LOL. Anyway, JMO. Edited March 15, 2021 by Bill from NYC 1 2
Niagara Dude Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 3 hours ago, HOUSE said: Me too but I didn't get my own thread I pray for him and that he stays clean because at his age one slip and his career could be over, i remember when Bruce Smith had those substance abuse issues. 1
JMF2006 Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You seem to have a lot of energy here. I don't want to argue, because I truly believe everyone has to find their own path here and that actually it's a bit of a problem that so many treatment programs do take a 12-step model because there are people who just can't relate. Addiction is a horrid problem to which there seem no sure-fire treatments as of today and it sucks. On the other hand, I wanted to respond because I kind of see three issues here: 1) whether 12-step programs are a good approach to addiction treatment. you seem to acknowledge the benefit for some, I can acknowledge it's not for everyone so maybe we have more common ground here than it first appears? 2) whether addiction (to alcohol or other) is, in fact, a lifelong issue - whether you're an "alcoholic forever" 3) whether a strategy other than complete abstinence can be effective treatment On the last point, I used Google to find something that I thought would be straightforward to read and in agreement with current research as far as I know it. (Some people confuse this with not knowing anything besides what I just Googled, but that's kinda their problem, not mine.). Here's what I found: https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/alcohol-abstinence-vs-moderation Conclusion: Data from one study. Success meant maintaining personal goal for >12 months. Their point being that for low levels of dependence by DSM-IV criteria, moderation might be successful but for higher dependence scores, success at abstinence -vs- moderation flipped from roughly 1:2, to 2:1 then to zippo success at the "moderation" thing. I think most people who have gotten to the point where they're seeing impacts in their marriage, friends, work - are probably past the point where moderation will likely be a successful strategy. But that's just my hunch, and if your mileage or the mileage of someone you know varies, I'm honestly delighted. Provided a person puts some protections to others in place (they should never drink and drive), I don't think any treatment has the track record of success to say "my way or the highway" here, but some pathways do have more success than others. PS I hope you're mistaken that AA and its sibling organizations will be dead as an organization soon because it helps a lot of folks. Thats funny//ironic in a way. I thought I could be a social drinker when I was 25/ 26 I dried out for 10 months and my career took off. Then I tried/thought I could be a social drinker.....wrong....way wrong. 5 years later my life was a wreck and I had hit bottom again......this time I knew I could never touch another drop. I can be around it (most of my friends drink when we go to hockey/football/concerts ect.) Too me its poison and I know its not going to be a part of my life anymore those ten months gave me a valuable lesson to live by. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, JMF2006 said: Thats funny//ironic in a way. I thought I could be a social drinker when I was 25/ 26 I dried out for 10 months and my career took off. Then I tried/thought I could be a social drinker.....wrong....way wrong. 5 years later my life was a wreck and I had hit bottom again......this time I knew I could never touch another drop. I can be around it (most of my friends drink when we go to hockey/football/concerts ect.) Too me its poison and I know its not going to be a part of my life anymore those ten months gave me a valuable lesson to live by. I'm glad you're where you need to be! I'll put it out there: I'm skeptical of the "moderation" thing myself. I think addiction has to do with the way our brains are wired. But the point of the link is that it does apparently work for some people, at least over the short term. It's an opening where some are willing to try, then willing to change if they can't make the social thing work. 1
JMF2006 Posted March 14, 2021 Posted March 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm glad you're where you need to be I'll put it out there: I'm skeptical of the "moderation" thing myself. I think addiction has to do with the way our brains are wired. But the point of the link is that it does apparently work for some people, at least over the short term. It's an opening where some are willing to try, then willing to change if they can't make the social thing work. Thanks We all gotta do what we gotta do to be happy. I went from fun drunk to miserable drunk.....not a good way to live your life.
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