Addison takes pay cut

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In that case they still would have had 8 DL with a lot of NFL experience under contract (plus Mike Love who they like and has some).  

 

They have the highest paid personnel department in the league behind Beane..........they should be able to fill in the blanks from there and still be able to rotate heavily.  

We'll see what happens. I will be disappointed if we don't add something to the pass rush. 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah but c'mon..........he was an OBVIOUS cut..........I just assumed they were waiting because his roster bonus wasn't due until March 22.

 

They could have gotten bigger, better and younger(or at least 2 of the 3) with that money.

 

$5M in cap space is enough to get a STUD player in year one of long term deal.

 

Worst moves so far:

 

1) Not cutting Addison

2) Signing Milano......the deal required $8M in cap space year 1.......a very high #........because he's too injury prone to stretch the deal.

3) Not cutting Morse........this one is more debatable but considering the concussions and limitations in the run game I was ready to turn the page.

4) Not cutting Butler........I understood why they kept him.......he took one for the team more than anyone last year.........but if they weren't going to cut Addison then he had to go.......just deferring money for he, Addison and Morse was not good.  Some folks don't realize that the unguaranteed money they make this year takes a chunk out of the future cap flexibility as well.   Need big years from those 3 to justify those deals in this market.......in which case they then lose the cap space next year from those pay cuts.

 

 

I don't have any real issue with 2, 3 or 4. I think all are moves you could see either way. But I don't like 1. I would not have signed Addison in the first place and I certainly wouldn't be keeping him.

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

$2M each for Butler and Addison.  I see it this way, they took the pay cut to "hopefully" make the team.

It seems that neither were given any additional guarantee that they ultimately make the team this year.

 

If a D-Lineman in FA is a better fit I think Beane will do what he has to!

 

Morse was they turned some (just under $2m) of the unguaranteed portion of his 2021 base salary into guaranteed salary. He is on the team this year.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We'll see what happens. I will be disappointed if we don't add something to the pass rush. 

 

 

Me too.

 

If people want to know what the difference between Addison and a more effective pass rusher is..........think about the Hail Murray.........poor ol' Addison had Murray in his grasp but couldn't close the deal.   A slightly better pass rusher and that pass never gets thrown.   And that's just the impact of one play.

 

They were good at getting pressures last year.....as they should have been with an offense that forced teams into throwing downs.........but they struggled to nail down games earlier in part because they weren't good at getting home.

 

Don't get me wrong..........it's nice to have a player like Milano.........it's nice to have veteran depth on the DL..........but I do find it funny that the narrative on Beane has been so heavily to "he signs deals it's easy to get out of" and then when it's pretty obviously time to get out of the deals he doesn't.  

 

It's all pretty random.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We have to remember how McDermott deploys his DL. He uses them in waves, heavy rotation. Cutting Addison and Butler to sign a better pass rusher makes sense to us but maybe he likes having 2 average players over 1 above average player? I don't know. 

 

There isn't enough value to the scheme McD wants to run which necessitates a deep DL rotation.  At present, Buffalo is allocating 25% of their cap dollars to the DL.  

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defensive-line/

 

At some point, McD's defensive needs are going to interfere in maintaining a solid offense.  They'll find a way to keep Diggs and Allen, but that alone isn't enough.  

 

My sense is beginning in 2022 they'll face the prospect of whether to keep that DL so deep or not.  I'm not convinced McD will relent, but we'll see. 

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah but c'mon..........he was an OBVIOUS cut..........I just assumed they were waiting because his roster bonus wasn't due until March 22.

 

They could have gotten bigger, better and younger(or at least 2 of the 3) with that money.

 

$5M in cap space is enough to get a STUD player in year one of long term deal.

 

Worst moves so far:

 

1) Not cutting Addison

2) Signing Milano......the deal required $8M in cap space year 1.......a very high #........because he's too injury prone to stretch the deal.

3) Not cutting Morse........this one is more debatable but considering the concussions and limitations in the run game I was ready to turn the page.

4) Not cutting Butler........I understood why they kept him.......he took one for the team more than anyone last year.........but if they weren't going to cut Addison then he had to go.......just deferring money for he, Addison and Morse was not good.  Some folks don't realize that the unguaranteed money they make this year takes a chunk out of the future cap flexibility as well.   Need big years from those 3 to justify those deals in this market.......in which case they then lose the cap space next year from those pay cuts.

 

$5m is enough cap to get a stud player at defensive end, hahaha really?  Show me 1 contract (not a rookie deal), where a stud player is at that level.  

 

1. Addison is slotted about 30th, before free agency begins, in terms of pay at the position.  Only way we can afford to get better, is cut Addison and someone else at another position (downgrade another position), OR draft someone early, which we might do anyhow.  Yes, I want better production too, but $2m pay cut is significant

2. Everyone has an opinion on Milano, that's fine.  To me, it comes down to Mcdermotts scheme. He needs certain type of players there, and Milano fits it to a T.  We also groomed Milano and have seen improvement year to year, yes injuries are a concern, but if you look at all FA and draft, we weren't going to.find a better option.  Good price and resigning IMO.

 

For the rest of your message, continuity is important on the lines.  Butler was forced to play out of position, imo. He's a better fit at the 3-tech.  We are no longer paying Butler or Morse high end contracts, yes we'd save cutting them, but you act like it's some guarantee the next guy signed or drafted is going to be an improvement. 

 

We need a better push/pass rush, and likely 2 more offensive weapons.  But this team just made the AFCG, i think Beane and McDermott have earned some trust and leeway not to 2nd guess every move

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

 

We need a better push/pass rush, and likely 2 more offensive weapons.  But this team just made the AFCG, i think Beane and McDermott have earned some trust and leeway not to 2nd guess every move

 

So we are not allowed to talk about moves? Better shut the forum down then. Look I love McDermott, I am Beane fan, and other than keeping Addison I don't really have an issue with any of the decisions made. But they haven't got every move right. They won't get every move right in future either, nobody does. And sometimes fans will get ones right that they get wrong. That's life. Doesn't mean I (or anyone else) thinks we would make better GMs.

[ngbills]

So we still are paying over $15m to Addison and Butler. Don’t like it all. Would rather have $13-15m guy and a couple minimum contact guys. 

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So we are not allowed to talk about moves? Better shut the forum down then. Look I love McDermott, I am Beane fan, and other than keeping Addison I don't really have an issue with any of the decisions made. But they haven't got every move right. They won't get every move right in future either, nobody does. And sometimes fans will get ones right that they get wrong. That's life. Doesn't mean I (or anyone else) thinks we would make better GMs.

No thinking allowed. Only clapping. 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So we are not allowed to talk about moves? Better shut the forum down then. Look I love McDermott, I am Beane fan, and other than keeping Addison I don't really have an issue with any of the decisions made. But they haven't got every move right. They won't get every move right in future either, nobody does. And sometimes fans will get ones right that they get wrong. That's life. Doesn't mean I (or anyone else) thinks we would make better GMs.

Speak for yourself. I’ve been waiting for the call since 2014.

[whatdrought]

3 hours ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

This is where I'm at too...I don't think an edge rusher that's actually worth pick #30 will be available. But the good news is I think there's a lot of depth and value in Rounds 2-3.

 

I like the guys you listed plus Quincy Roche (Miami), Victor Dimukeje (Duke), and Jordan Smith (UAB) are three other prospects I love. 

Smith is an interesting one... physical specimen whose raw and had had some character issues. 

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The deep DL rotation is frustrating... waste of cap space to maintain an overall average group.

 

Use some of that cap space an invest in a good front four instead of spreading it around to an average rotation..... dumb strategy, but looks like they are rolling with it again in 2021.

And that's the difference between us and teams like the Bucs and Chiefs.... too many average players and Josh Allen. Not enough great players. 

Can’t really argue with you too much here.  
 

I would’ve preferred they cut Butler, Jefferson and Addison outright - then used that money to go after one of the talented DL that are available in FA.  
 

Alas, they cut just Jefferson and restructured Butler/Addison.  
 

Maybe a full year with the team allows Butler and Addison to be more effective.  Maybe Epenesa grows into a legit pass rusher.  Maybe Oliver becomes a menace now that he’s playing the position we drafted him for.  ....a lot of maybe’s for a DL that still has a lot invested in it.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

$5m is enough cap to get a stud player at defensive end, hahaha really? 

 

 

 

Yeah, it is........to prove it I will give you an even more extreme example than say........last weeks signing of JJ Watt for $15M per year aav that has  just a $5M cap figure in year one.

 

Let's say the best defensive player in the NFL was available in UFA and he wanted to go to a winning team with a good QB.......there aren't any $25M per year pass rushers this season........but let's say that you sign one to a 5 year $125M contract.

 

That deal has a $20M signing bonus and $80M in other guarantees.........so a huge deal with $100M gtd.

 

First year.........base $1M and $4M in amortized bonus($20M/5 years).

 

That's a $5M cap figure, boss.

 

Rest of contract:

 

2) $15M +4M

3) $20M +4M

4) $25M +4M

5) $44M(only $19M gtd) +4M

 

The advantage of putting the guarantees into base salary is that they can be converted to bonus money to create cap room in future seasons.........which is exactly what's going on in KC and Tampa right now.

 

Mahomes signed a $50M per year deal last summer.........his cap hit for 2020 was just $5.3M. 

 

So yeah they could easily afford that much cheaper DE equivalent of Tre White and Stefon Diggs and fit him under the cap for $5M in year 1.

 

But damn........it's hard to do with less than $5M in space.........a good free agent is going to want a signing bonus of at least the aav of the deal.

 

 

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea, I'd rather have the money. Oh well. Him at this new price is better than him at his old price.

I think you have to put some trust in McBeanes on this matter.
 This does not limit the Bills from acquiring new players at those positions. 
and to your point ?
 Taking the pay cuts makes the situation more palatable for the for the folks who wanted them out right cut.
Yes I like Addison. I admit it. I expect a stronger season from him.
still need to upgrade both DEs /edge players.

 

PS folks

 I love the rotation. Its smart football.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So we are not allowed to talk about moves? Better shut the forum down then. Look I love McDermott, I am Beane fan, and other than keeping Addison I don't really have an issue with any of the decisions made. But they haven't got every move right. They won't get every move right in future either, nobody does. And sometimes fans will get ones right that they get wrong. That's life. Doesn't mean I (or anyone else) thinks we would make better GMs.

‘tis the season for second guessing I have no problem with it everybody put your opinions for work just please people don’t be complaining about it all season after it’s done in the end being put together a championship caliber team I also would like to see more pass rush

[MasterStrategist]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So we are not allowed to talk about moves? Better shut the forum down then. Look I love McDermott, I am Beane fan, and other than keeping Addison I don't really have an issue with any of the decisions made. But they haven't got every move right. They won't get every move right in future either, nobody does. And sometimes fans will get ones right that they get wrong. That's life. Doesn't mean I (or anyone else) thinks we would make better GMs.

Calm down.  You took that personal, when not even directed at you.

 

I was just saying it's bold to say Milano was a bad signing and so and so should be cut, when our GM has done a solid job getting us where we're at.

 

Everyone question things, but picking every single offseason move is what is crazy

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah, it is........to prove it I will give you an even more extreme example than say........last weeks signing of JJ Watt for $15M per year aav that has  just a $5M cap figure in year one.

 

Let's say the best defensive player in the NFL was available in UFA and he wanted to go to a winning team with a good QB.......there aren't any $25M per year pass rushers this season........but let's say that you sign one to a 5 year $125M contract.

 

That deal has a $20M signing bonus and $80M in other guarantees.........so a huge deal with $100M gtd.

 

First year.........base $1M and $4M in amortized bonus($20M/5 years).

 

That's a $5M cap figure, boss.

 

Rest of contract:

 

2) $15M +4M

3) $20M +4M

4) $25M +4M

5) $44M(only $19M gtd) +4M

 

The advantage of putting the guarantees into base salary is that they can be converted to bonus money to create cap room in future seasons.........which is exactly what's going on in KC and Tampa right now.

 

Mahomes signed a $50M per year deal last summer.........his cap hit for 2020 was just $5.3M. 

 

So yeah they could easily afford that much cheaper DE equivalent of Tre White and Stefon Diggs and fit him under the cap for $5M in year 1.

 

But damn........it's hard to do with less than $5M in space.........a good free agent is going to want a signing bonus of at least the aav of the deal.

 

 

Haha OK.  So to prove your point you will get a 1sy yr cap hit of $5m then 4 yrs later, when said player is likely over the hill, you will have a $40m+ cap hit.  Interesting management of the cap, talk about going all in and kicking the can.

 

To each our own, everyone hoping for thr best and think they know the best method right now (me included 😉)

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

The deep DL rotation is frustrating... waste of cap space to maintain an overall average group.

 

Use some of that cap space an invest in a good front four instead of spreading it around to an average rotation..... dumb strategy, but looks like they are rolling with it again in 2021.

And that's the difference between us and teams like the Bucs and Chiefs.... too many average players and Josh Allen. Not enough great players. 

I agree they need to get better rushing the passer. 

[CaptnCoke11]

Looks like they may be standing pat at defensive end.. better hope Epenesa takes a huge step forward.  

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Looks like they may be standing pat at defensive end.. better hope Epenesa takes a huge step forward.  

They will probably draft someone but it will be tough to make a difference in Year 1 ...Hope Im wrong..

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Calm down.  You took that personal, when not even directed at you.

 

I was just saying it's bold to say Milano was a bad signing and so and so should be cut, when our GM has done a solid job getting us where we're at.

 

Everyone question things, but picking every single offseason move is what is crazy

 

 

I didn't take anything personally. This is a message board. It is where people express their opinions  

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Looks like they may be standing pat at defensive end.. better hope Epenesa takes a huge step forward.  

 

I wouldn’t assume that one although logical.  They could be targeting someone, and start the negotiations, amd the plan is convert Addison’s pay cut to just cut the guy.  They could have him as the fall back plan, and if they lock up one of the studs talked about this off season, then go from a $2 mil. pay cut (hypothetically) to dropping him and save the $6+ mil.

 

We’ll find out this week.

 

Beane is getting a lot of love from NFLR lately at extending people that are priorities for the Bills.  I’ve heard it on multiple shows amd good for him.