Brandon Beane at Clemson pro day

[Thurman#1]

22 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I agree it's better to counter then to copy. I also agree that our blocking wasn't the best last season but I believe it was a mixture of Scheme, Blocking and our backs that didn't allow us to be better more efficient running game. We faced 6 man boxes almost more then any other team and our backs couldn't make those teams pay for it. 

 

Now we know Singletary and Moss are limited in there skill sets so that might have alot to do with us not running more sophisticated running Schemes. Btw how many times do we need to see Singletary benched during a playoff game to know he's not the answer? He was benched in 2019 vs Houston and also benched vs KC after that crucial dropped pass that in my opinion changed the whole complex of the game. If it's not Ettiene or Harris or even Javonta Williams I would love to see an upgrade in our bkfield somehow. I'm not a believer in Moss or Singletary there just JAGs

 

 

They're not just JAGs, they're solid, good backs. No, not breakaway threats, but good players. Their YPAs speak to that.

 

And it wasn't the RBs who were the problem, it was the line and the system. How many times do we need Brandon Beane to say this before we know that they are indeed the answer.

 

The Bills have been going towards a power scheme since they switched OL coaches last offseason. The RBs aren't the reason they're not doing sophisticated running schemes.

 

This team wants to throw the ball most of the time. As well they should. And for a team that wants to do that, spending a 3rd, a 3rd and then a 1st on an RB just is not smart resource management.

 

I expect that they might well go RB on day 3. That could be an upgrade. But I think they feel that the upgrade will come from the development of some of our younger OLs, some more OL continuity and more offseason work time together, maybe drafting another OL earlyish, Cody Ford staying healthy, etc.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Thurman#1

[BillsFan1988]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

They're not just JAGs, they're solid, good backs. No, not breakaway threats, but good players. Their YPAs a

 

And it wasn't the RBs who were the problem, it was the line and the system. How many times do we need Brandon Beane to say this before we know that they are indeed the answer.

 

The Bills have been going towards a power scheme since they switched OL coaches last offseason. The RBs aren't the reason they're not doing sophisticated running schemes.

 

This team wants to throw the ball most of the time. As well they should. And for a team that wants to do that, spending a 3rd, a 3rd and then a 1st on an RB just is not smart resource management.

 

I expect that they might well go RB on day 3. That could be an upgrade. But I think they feel that the upgrade will come from the development of some of our younger OLs, some more OL continuity and more offseason work time together, maybe drafting another OL earlyish, Cody Ford staying healthy, etc.

We actually went away from man power scheme last season to more zone scheme. That was actually a very bad idea considering our backs don't have the speed necessary to threaten the outside much. 

Just now, BillsFan1988 said:

We actually went away from man power scheme last season to more zone scheme. That was actually a very bad idea considering our backs don't have the speed necessary to threaten the outside much. 

Our backs suck just face it. Btw Beane wants to throw the oline under the bus but he's signing those guys back so don't believe everything u hear.

[BillsFan1988]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

We actually went away from man power scheme last season to more zone scheme. That was actually a very bad idea considering our backs don't have the speed necessary to threaten the outside much. 

Our backs suck just face it. Btw Beane wants to throw the oline under the bus but he's signing those guys back so don't believe everything u hear.

Singletary is not a game breaker he's a game wrecker that Mcd doesn't trust. Moss looks like a the old version of Frank Gore. These guys are JAGs u even said it just solid we'll I don't want solid I want a game breaker in the backfield that's what this Offense is missing.

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

We actually went away from man power scheme last season to more zone scheme. That was actually a very bad idea considering our backs don't have the speed necessary to threaten the outside much. 

Our backs suck just face it. Btw Beane wants to throw the oline under the bus but he's signing those guys back so don't believe everything u hear.

 

 

Great logic. 

 

And no, we absolutely did NOT go less power last year. Just the opposite. Less pulling. More power. That's why the guys they've brought in have been big strong and not especially athletic. They haven't brought in a nifty interior guy since Morse, and they've switched OL coaches since then.

 

How's this for a comeback with equal argumentative logic and power:   "Our backs don't suck. Just face it." 

 

Convincing, right? Thank you. I got it from you. Credit where credit is due.

 

Thing is, Beane agrees with me and disagrees with you. And yes, he's bringing back most of the OL, they were really good at pass protection, and that's what this team values most in an OL. Which will not help any new RB any more than it helped Moss and Singletary.

 

And I'm sure they want a game breaker in the backfield just like you. It's just not likely to be as high a priority on a team that has one of the highest pass:run ratios in the league as it appears to be for you.

 

But they're clear that the OL was most of the problem last year, even if you're not.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Thurman#1

[JaCrispy]

On 3/12/2021 at 10:41 AM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

We know Beane is not afraid of moving up in the first round.

I hope he is this year...moving up would be a disaster for this team, imo... The focus should be getting younger and fortifying the trenches for this year and beyond...I think trading back to the top of the 2nd, and scooping someone’s top 3rd round pick in the process would be much more desirable...

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The only time that Beane or McDermott have done that is when they spent the previous year accumulating massive amounts of draft capital with the intention of trading up for a franchise QB.

 

 

I thought they moved up for Edmunds too in that same draft. But i could be wrong.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

I hope he is this year...moving up would be a disaster for this team, imo... The focus should be getting younger and fortifying the trenches for this year and beyond...I think trading back to the top of the 2nd, and scooping someone’s top 3rd round pick in the process would be much more desirable...

 

I think disaster is a bit much.

 

In 2018 Beane moved up 6 spots to grab Edmunds. Bills received as many picks back two as they gave up, two. So it didn't cost us in terms of not having that extra pick for a low salary developmental guy. We need to be able to add low salary guys to the roster since the cap is a little tight right now. That would still be the case if we make a similar trade from say 30 up to 24. It will only cost us an approximate value of say the Bills 3rd round pick for the other teams 4th. Or possibly even just swap of 3rd rounders if the Bills have a late one and the other team has an early one.

 

The 2021 Bills roster is also quite different than the 2018 Bills pre-draft roster. We have a championship caliber team that is looking to add one or two pieces that can get us over the top. In no way do I see a similar 2018 trade as mortgaging the future.

[BillsFan1988]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Great logic. 

 

And no, we absolutely did NOT go less power last year. Just the opposite. Less pulling. More power. That's why the guys they've brought in have been big strong and not especially athletic. They haven't brought in a nifty interior guy since Morse, and they've switched OL coaches since then.

 

How's this for a comeback with equal argumentative logic and power:   "Our backs don't suck. Just face it." 

 

Convincing, right? Thank you. I got it from you. Credit where credit is due.

 

Thing is, Beane agrees with me and disagrees with you. And yes, he's bringing back most of the OL, they were really good at pass protection, and that's what this team values most in an OL. Which will not help any new RB any more than it helped Moss and Singletary.

 

And I'm sure they want a game breaker in the backfield just like you. It's just not likely to be as high a priority on a team that has one of the highest pass:run ratios in the league as it appears to be for you.

 

But they're clear that the OL was most of the problem last year, even if you're not.

Bills ran mostly inside zone in 2020 not much power. Btw power running Schemes have pulling, counters, sweeps there's definitely a ton of different concepts in power it's not just plowing up the middle on every play. 

 

 

 

 

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

We actually went away from man power scheme last season to more zone scheme. That was actually a very bad idea considering our backs don't have the speed necessary to threaten the outside much. 

Our backs suck just face it. Btw Beane wants to throw the oline under the bus but he's signing those guys back so don't believe everything u hear.

If we re-sign Feliciano, you have a point.  
 

However, to date there is no reason to believe he’s coming back, and if he doesn’t, that means 2/5ths of the OL (both Guard spots) could be different from what we saw for the majority of last year.  

[JaCrispy]

12 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I think disaster is a bit much.

 

In 2018 Beane moved up 6 spots to grab Edmunds. Bills received as many picks back two as they gave up, two. So it didn't cost us in terms of not having that extra pick for a low salary developmental guy. We need to be able to add low salary guys to the roster since the cap is a little tight right now. That would still be the case if we make a similar trade from say 30 up to 24. It will only cost us an approximate value of say the Bills 3rd round pick for the other teams 4th. Or possibly even just swap of 3rd rounders if the Bills have a late one and the other team has an early one.

 

The 2021 Bills roster is also quite different than the 2018 Bills pre-draft roster. We have a championship caliber team that is looking to add one or two pieces that can get us over the top. In no way do I see a similar 2018 trade as mortgaging the future.

I hear ya...but the problem we need to take into account is the issue Allen’s future contract will present...that’s why I feel we can’t afford to give up top picks...Allen’s salary will prohibit the Bills from signing guys in the future...so we will really be relying on these top picks in 2021 to carry us through, not only this year, but into the future as well...that’s why I would actually prefer trading back 5-10 spots, and pick up another top pick...

 

Also, when you trade up, you rarely get the value from the player compared to the extra capital required ...trading back gives you the better opportunity to be more successful imo...

[BillsFan1988]

44 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If we re-sign Feliciano, you have a point.  
 

However, to date there is no reason to believe he’s coming back, and if he doesn’t, that means 2/5ths of the OL (both Guard spots) could be different from what we saw for the majority of last year.  

I really believe it was a mixture of Scheme, Blocking and the Backs that was the problem running last season.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

And it wasn't the RBs who were the problem, it was the line and the system. How many times do we need Brandon Beane to say this before we know that they are indeed the answer.

 

This team wants to throw the ball most of the time. As well they should. And for a team that wants to do that, spending a 3rd, a 3rd and then a 1st on an RB just is not smart resource management.

 

It was partly the line and the scheme, but also the RBs weren't good enough. Singletary and Moss don't have particularly good vision and neither is fast or explosive enough to hit holes before they close. To your point about how we throw the ball most of the time, our RBs also were non-factors in the passing game. Singletary had a couple drops in critical situations, most notably the AFC Championship. And RBs without speed aren't good check down options. It's hard to run a consistently elite passing game with nothing but WRs.

 

So it is entirely possible that Beane and McDermott have lost trust in Singletary and are prepared to move on. Drafting 2 mediocre RBs in the 3rd round was a mistake. I don't want them to compound that mistake by deciding they don't need to get better. Good GMs move on from their bad picks sooner rather than later. If they can get an explosive RB in the early rounds and it means they have to trade Singletary for peanuts, so be it. You don't make draft decisions based on how you've used your draft picks in the past, it should all be based on current team needs and right now an RB1 is a need.

[BillsFan1988]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

If we re-sign Feliciano, you have a point.  
 

However, to date there is no reason to believe he’s coming back, and if he doesn’t, that means 2/5ths of the OL (both Guard spots) could be different from what we saw for the majority of last year.  

Another Beane shocker . I guess we can take his press conference with a grain of 🧂.

[billspro]

On 3/11/2021 at 7:28 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If they make the wrong decision and take a running back early I hope they at least don't put the process on "Bills embedded" like when Beane hungrily jumped up for Cody Ford.    Passing on DK and AJ (oh and Elgton Jenkins @Logic) was bad enough.    This isn't 1988.......taking a RB early is a BAD play.    

Etienne is more than a RB. We would be lucky to have him. I would be happy if we got Rodgers too.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, billspro said:

Etienne is more than a RB. We would be lucky to have him. I would be happy if we got Rodgers too.

 

 

No, he is just a RB...........and a running back with a lot of mileage.

[DCofNC]

On 3/11/2021 at 10:49 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That vert is bad for Etienne and Rodgers.........Allen's placement on passes to RB's is not one of his better attributes........and Singletary(35" vert) has a bigger catch radius than Etienne.

So you just assume a 5’7” guy who jumps 1.5” higher than a guy who is 5’10”, has a better “catch radius”?  Must be some common core math going on there.

If Etienne is going to be used more as a hybrid player than a pure RB, I’m all for taking him.  Playmakers are playmakers, I don’t really care how they get it done.  Tyreek Hill isn’t a pure WR either, but he sure makes a lot of difference.  If they see him a just a RB who can catch, meh, not going there.

[buffaloaggie]

Is anyone considering that Etienne ran up rushing numbers against poor ACC defenses? Ohio State limited him two years in a row, LSU shut him down, and he may have had one decent game against Bama in their blowout win three years ago. Otherwise, I'd rather have a more tested commodity in Najee Harris. I'm sure Daboll would like Harris too.