JMF2006 Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Losing 3 o-line starters is a big deal no matter how you slice it. Reiter is the underrated part of this - he didn't give up a single sack all of last season. I don't care how good the rest of the offense is, if you don't have good pass protection your ceiling is capped. Look at Luck or Watson or Wilson. The best thing Beane has done since drafting Allen is building him a pocket. As a reminder here's what Mahomes had to do in the Super Bowl to get his passes of: He ran 497 yards total behind the line of scrimmage before throwing the ball or taking a sack. Not every team has the Buccaneers pass rush but it's going to be difficult to sustain an elite offense with that level of pass protection. We need Tee Shirts So that' s what running around like a chicken with your head chopped off looks like I wonder how many useless yards Tie Rod ran for at the Ralph on gameday ? Just think if Mahomee actually ran for a third of those yard beyond the line of scrimmage they might have had a chance 1
HappyDays Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, JMF2006 said: We need Tee Shirts The funniest part of that graphic is right below Mahomes's insane movement chart, that other tiny bundle of lines is what Brady did on his pass plays. Reminds me of those old posters, "This is your brain when sober. This is your brain on cocaine." 1 3
Zerovoltz Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 16 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: Just checked spotrac, they were 4.1m over the cap... Allow me to clarify alot of this. 1st. As pointed out elsewhere in the thread....Mahomes big money hasn't kicked in at all yet. ...for reference..Ryan Tannehill will make more than Mahomes...FOR TWO MORE YEARS. Furthermore, you'll see it in the next few days...KC will just convert a bunch of guys "roster" bonus over to "signing" bonus and kick that money down the road....open plenty of space....this is not a CAP hell situation for the Chiefs. 16 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: That is funny. You would have thought they would have locked them up after the SB. this is going to be such a loaded FA class with so much less money to spend. I bet there will be a ton of one year, prove it deals hoping for multi year deals next year. as a legit SB contender, we are in position to get some really good players for cheap who want to showcase themselves for next year. This could work out perfect for us. Todays moves weren't about losing their top 2 offenseive tackles...KC lost both of them during the season....and it manifested itself at the worst possible time (Super Bowl) Cutting Fisher, who almost certainly won't play this year....on the last year of his deal....is just smart conservation of cap space....Schwartz, only played a little to start the year and he was Horrible...you could tell his back was BAD. He's been outstanding when healthy....again, too much of a risk for KC to hold onto for a guy with what appears to be serious back injury.... I'm not telling anyone this is good...but the moves today were just reallocating money back to the roster/cap, that was going to players who we ALREADY don't have now. 13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Mahomes is outstanding but it's not talked about enough how great a situation he started in. It'll be interesting to see what happens without one of the best rosters around him. Mahomes did start out in a good situation....but his line has gotten worse each year and game he's played. Mitch Morse leaving was the beginning of the the line regressing. Mahomes hides some O line problems.....especially the bad interior line because at least the Tackles were good....he couldn't overcome 5 really bad JAG level guys all starting in the SB.... KC's line has been horrible and unable to generate push for 3 years going now...limits the red zone stuff and goal line stuff....adn 1 yard to go stuff KC can do.....IF they put together a a new line that can get some push....it MIGHT...(I said MIGHT) be a plus. 10 hours ago, HappyDays said: The path to beating the Chiefs next year is definitely easier as of right now. Just need to have a serviceable pass rush that can take advantage of their downgrades. Austin Reiter didn't allow a single sack last year. This needs context. Austin Reiter is the worst starting C in the NFL. He has been the last two years. He gets NO push, and he doen'st allow sacks because his job is to help one of the guards double someone. He's horrible. They can NOT possibly bring in a worse replacement......EXHIBIT A: Go back and watch KC Bills week 6. KC started Daniel Kilgore at C that game.....I was SURE KC would keep roling with Kilgore...he was awesome that game...and he was also awesome in the other game he started this year for KC....should have started the whole year. Reiter SUCKS. Moving on from him does NOT make things easier for the otehr team..this is GOOD FOR KC. 9 hours ago, MJS said: Uh, our oline sucked. The Chiefs had a good oline. I want to agree with this.....when Josh Allen got to the Bills...you guys had one of the worst lines I've ever seen.....congrats to Beane and McD for getting that thing turned over into somehting good in a short time. 8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I wonder if KC takes a step back offensively? Not saying they’ll be stopped but if Mahomes is running for his life all season long....maybe the offense is just good and not scary anymore. Too early to say yet....I would venture to guess that KC is going to rebuild the line, but that line chemistry is one of the most underrated aspects of football. No matter who KC rolls out there, it's going to take time to get the chemistry rolling. That alone will probably hold the O back some. but if they can put a decent group on the field that can A) get some chemistry and B) get a little push in short yardage, then KC's O should round into high level form as the season goes on. I have other thoughts on that, but this isn't the place for it. 8 hours ago, davefan66 said: I’m sure they have a plan on replacing these guys. Can’t imagine them jettisoning two starting tackles without a plan. I don’t expect them to miss the playoffs next season because of these moves. Now, if they are planning on replacing with internal candidates...then that would be a problem. Super bowl showed depth problems at o-line for them. Let me hit the starting C leaving again....that was the plan no matter what. Reiter Sucks (and you can find posts I've put on this board saying so for a long time) KC also did draft Lucas Niang from TCU in round 3 last year. He had 1st round grades, but injury red flags....he opted out of this past season for Covid...but reports are he's all healed up....so if Niang is legit..that's one replacement. In this odd COVID FA year...there may well be some decent bargain linemen available in FA...and this is a deep draft at OT.....KC SHOULD be able to get this built back up in short order......it's the key to their offseason for sure. 1 1
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 26 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: Mahomes did start out in a good situation....but his line has gotten worse each year and game he's played. Mitch Morse leaving was the beginning of the the line regressing. Mahomes hides some O line problems.....especially the bad interior line because at least the Tackles were good....he couldn't overcome 5 really bad JAG level guys all starting in the SB.... KC's line has been horrible and unable to generate push for 3 years going now...limits the red zone stuff and goal line stuff....adn 1 yard to go stuff KC can do.....IF they put together a a new line that can get some push....it MIGHT...(I said MIGHT) be a plus. I think he'll be fine, Brady went through dozens of OL combinations. There is a breaking point though. If KC decides Mahomes can save us, I think that's the wrong decision. I'm sure this was calculated and they have a plan. Andy Reid IMO is the best coach of our era, I've always felt that way. Look at his coaching tree.
Zerovoltz Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think he'll be fine, Brady went through dozens of OL combinations. There is a breaking point though. If KC decides Mahomes can save us, I think that's the wrong decision. I'm sure this was calculated and they have a plan. Andy Reid IMO is the best coach of our era, I've always felt that way. Look at his coaching tree. Unfortunatley, this was the plan in the Super Bowl.....KC made no adjustments, and just rolled out as if all was well... Obviously I love Mahomes....and I thought he could overcome it all....but he's human...I hope that the FO understand that you keep Mahomes upright and healthy first. That's it....job 1. Everything else is after that.
ALF Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 35 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said: Unfortunatley, this was the plan in the Super Bowl.....KC made no adjustments, and just rolled out as if all was well... Obviously I love Mahomes....and I thought he could overcome it all....but he's human...I hope that the FO understand that you keep Mahomes upright and healthy first. That's it....job 1. Everything else is after that. That should be the priority for Josh Allen also 2
machine gun kelly Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 Ask Pittsburgh how easy it will be to replace 60% of you’re line when they are only under by $6.1 mil. The Chiefs are over by $4.3 mil. There going to have to cut more players this week. That’s a lot of drafting of lineman. I like Mahomes, but he’s going to need a line for any success. At least he’s mobile, whereas Ben is not anymore. We bought a line in 2019, but we had a lot of cap space. The other problem for each team is they both pick towards the end of each round. I used to like the Steelers when we were in the drought, but there whining this year was annoying. The whole league had to deal with games moving around, and I didn’t hear other teams whining. As far as the Chiefs, they have some excellent players, but wasn’t unhappy about them getting spanked in the SB.
Zerovoltz Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said: Ask Pittsburgh how easy it will be to replace 60% of you’re line when they are only under by $6.1 mil. The Chiefs are over by $4.3 mil. There going to have to cut more players this week. That’s a lot of drafting of lineman. I like Mahomes, but he’s going to need a line for any success. At least he’s mobile, whereas Ben is not anymore. We bought a line in 2019, but we had a lot of cap space. The other problem for each team is they both pick towards the end of each round. I used to like the Steelers when we were in the drought, but there whining this year was annoying. The whole league had to deal with games moving around, and I didn’t hear other teams whining. As far as the Chiefs, they have some excellent players, but wasn’t unhappy about them getting spanked in the SB. No, they aren't....they have 5 or 6 guys who they will be converting roster bonus to signing bonus.
GunnerBill Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: Ask Pittsburgh how easy it will be to replace 60% of you’re line when they are only under by $6.1 mil. The Chiefs are over by $4.3 mil. There going to have to cut more players this week. That’s a lot of drafting of lineman. I like Mahomes, but he’s going to need a line for any success. At least he’s mobile, whereas Ben is not anymore. We bought a line in 2019, but we had a lot of cap space. The other problem for each team is they both pick towards the end of each round. I used to like the Steelers when we were in the drought, but there whining this year was annoying. The whole league had to deal with games moving around, and I didn’t hear other teams whining. As far as the Chiefs, they have some excellent players, but wasn’t unhappy about them getting spanked in the SB. @Zerovoltz is right that Lucas Niang is almost certainly slated as one starting tackle. I don't buy that he was a first round talent... he wasn't. He was always a mid/late 2nd through to a mid 3rd for me but I do think he has a chance to be a solid starting tackle but because of his opt out he will essentially be a rookie in 2021. I think they need one more tackle and they needed an upgrade at guard and centre in any event. It is likely their line will be young and inexperienced in 2021... but it isn't the worst year to need offensive tackles in the draft. That is the best position group talent wise of the first two days IMO.
Mr. WEO Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 8 hours ago, Doc said: True, Fisher wasn't going to play this coming year, but the larger point is he played almost all of the season and was a Pro Bowl LT. Schwartz though hadn't missed a game until this past season and as far as I know, isn't thinking of retiring. And his replacement (Remmers) will likely leave in FA. That's their top-3 OTs. That SB was a darker snuff film (oh how I wish the Bills had faced that Chefs OL!) and the Chefs will likely be losing 2 more starters from that MASH unit: (the aforementioned) Remmers and Reiter. Will they be able to replace them all? for the most part, they did. vs Bills: Reiter, Wylie, Allegretti, Remmers, Fisher (who didn't finish the game-Chiefs continued to run up the score), Wisniewski vs Bucs: Reiter, Wylie, Allegretti, Remmers, Wisniewski (albeit at various position changes) Look, none of this should be shocking. Both of these guys are past 30 and just had surgery for major injuries that put their return to game shape for the season in doubt. As recently as early Feb, the team was saying Fisher might be back for August. Obviously, something changed in the player's prognosis that made this less likely. Two older linemen with an achilles repair and back surgery? A team that needed to clear cap space? Not a hard decision. 1
GunnerBill Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: for the most part, they did. vs Bills: Reiter, Wylie, Allegretti, Remmers, Fisher (who didn't finish the game-Chiefs continued to run up the score), Wisniewski vs Bucs: Reiter, Wylie, Allegretti, Remmers, Wisniewski (albeit at various position changes) Look, none of this should be shocking. Both of these guys are past 30 and just had surgery for major injuries that put their return to game shape for the season in doubt. As recently as early Feb, the team was saying Fisher might be back for August. Obviously, something changed in the player's prognosis that made this less likely. Two older linemen with an achilles repair and back surgery? A team that needed to clear cap space? Not a hard decision. Completely agree. These are not surprise cuts they were expected moves. Does it leave them with a major need at tackle? Yes. But they have the time and the opportunity in the draft to do something about it. I don't think it is completely beyond the realm of possibility they could get a good tackle at #31 and a good tackle at #62. It is a really good tackle group on paper. Obviously they have some other needs to address as well, and two rookie tackles on the same line would be a big risk for a contending team, but this is a situation they will have been planning for pretty much since the Superbowl. 1
Mr. WEO Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Completely agree. These are not surprise cuts they were expected moves. Does it leave them with a major need at tackle? Yes. But they have the time and the opportunity in the draft to do something about it. I don't think it is completely beyond the realm of possibility they could get a good tackle at #31 and a good tackle at #62. It is a really good tackle group on paper. Obviously they have some other needs to address as well, and two rookie tackles on the same line would be a big risk for a contending team, but this is a situation they will have been planning for pretty much since the Superbowl. True. Haven't many here suggested the Bills take OT at 30?
GunnerBill Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: True. Haven't many here suggested the Bills take OT at 30? Yep. And with Williams seemingly now on his way out I think that is ever more likely. 1
Reed83HOF Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 8 hours ago, Zerovoltz said: Allow me to clarify alot of this. 1st. As pointed out elsewhere in the thread....Mahomes big money hasn't kicked in at all yet. ...for reference..Ryan Tannehill will make more than Mahomes...FOR TWO MORE YEARS. Furthermore, you'll see it in the next few days...KC will just convert a bunch of guys "roster" bonus over to "signing" bonus and kick that money down the road....open plenty of space....this is not a CAP hell situation for the Chiefs. Todays moves weren't about losing their top 2 offenseive tackles...KC lost both of them during the season....and it manifested itself at the worst possible time (Super Bowl) Cutting Fisher, who almost certainly won't play this year....on the last year of his deal....is just smart conservation of cap space....Schwartz, only played a little to start the year and he was Horrible...you could tell his back was BAD. He's been outstanding when healthy....again, too much of a risk for KC to hold onto for a guy with what appears to be serious back injury.... I'm not telling anyone this is good...but the moves today were just reallocating money back to the roster/cap, that was going to players who we ALREADY don't have now. Mahomes did start out in a good situation....but his line has gotten worse each year and game he's played. Mitch Morse leaving was the beginning of the the line regressing. Mahomes hides some O line problems.....especially the bad interior line because at least the Tackles were good....he couldn't overcome 5 really bad JAG level guys all starting in the SB.... KC's line has been horrible and unable to generate push for 3 years going now...limits the red zone stuff and goal line stuff....adn 1 yard to go stuff KC can do.....IF they put together a a new line that can get some push....it MIGHT...(I said MIGHT) be a plus. This needs context. Austin Reiter is the worst starting C in the NFL. He has been the last two years. He gets NO push, and he doen'st allow sacks because his job is to help one of the guards double someone. He's horrible. They can NOT possibly bring in a worse replacement......EXHIBIT A: Go back and watch KC Bills week 6. KC started Daniel Kilgore at C that game.....I was SURE KC would keep roling with Kilgore...he was awesome that game...and he was also awesome in the other game he started this year for KC....should have started the whole year. Reiter SUCKS. Moving on from him does NOT make things easier for the otehr team..this is GOOD FOR KC. I want to agree with this.....when Josh Allen got to the Bills...you guys had one of the worst lines I've ever seen.....congrats to Beane and McD for getting that thing turned over into somehting good in a short time. Too early to say yet....I would venture to guess that KC is going to rebuild the line, but that line chemistry is one of the most underrated aspects of football. No matter who KC rolls out there, it's going to take time to get the chemistry rolling. That alone will probably hold the O back some. but if they can put a decent group on the field that can A) get some chemistry and B) get a little push in short yardage, then KC's O should round into high level form as the season goes on. I have other thoughts on that, but this isn't the place for it. Let me hit the starting C leaving again....that was the plan no matter what. Reiter Sucks (and you can find posts I've put on this board saying so for a long time) KC also did draft Lucas Niang from TCU in round 3 last year. He had 1st round grades, but injury red flags....he opted out of this past season for Covid...but reports are he's all healed up....so if Niang is legit..that's one replacement. In this odd COVID FA year...there may well be some decent bargain linemen available in FA...and this is a deep draft at OT.....KC SHOULD be able to get this built back up in short order......it's the key to their offseason for sure. I know about mahomes contract, the meme is just hilarious. Most team are close to the cap this year and not crazily over need to do some cap magic, you have a very good gm. I am expecting that you guys will be able to still get some quality players to shore the lime up. Fisher is basically a goner due to his injury timeline and years on his contract. It is well know that Schwartz's back is shot. Ideally this is not the year, given that cap situation, that KC fans would want their team to go through this. If training camps are allowed to be normal, the growing pains of at least 3/5 of your OL will have time to gel. If not, could be a bumpy start to the year while they all learn to play together....
ColoradoBills Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Zerovoltz said: No, they aren't....they have 5 or 6 guys who they will be converting roster bonus to signing bonus. I have looked at their situation and while they can get some money in restructures it's not a lot. The biggest gain is restructuring Clark again. They can't get money from Mathieu unless the extend him (which is possible). After those 2 the rest of the players eligible to restructure is low money. Sort by Base Salary. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/
Doc Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: for the most part, they did. vs Bills: Reiter, Wylie, Allegretti, Remmers, Fisher (who didn't finish the game-Chiefs continued to run up the score), Wisniewski vs Bucs: Reiter, Wylie, Allegretti, Remmers, Wisniewski (albeit at various position changes) Look, none of this should be shocking. Both of these guys are past 30 and just had surgery for major injuries that put their return to game shape for the season in doubt. As recently as early Feb, the team was saying Fisher might be back for August. Obviously, something changed in the player's prognosis that made this less likely. Two older linemen with an achilles repair and back surgery? A team that needed to clear cap space? Not a hard decision. Fair enough with Fisher and Schwartz missing time after recent surgeries. But the post to which you responded was talking about their plans, and after losing their 2 best OTs and likely losing their 3rd best OT and starting C, they'll need far more than in-house plans. As for the Chefs' line in the SB being the same as the one playing against the Chefs "for the most part," it wasn't. Fisher played the first 3 quarters against the Bills, by which time they had put the game away. After being lost, the Chefs were forced to move Remmers from RT to LT, playing starting RG Wylie at RT and then start backup LG (Wiesnewski) at RG. And with them losing Fisher, Schwartz and likely Reiter and Remmers, they'll need to 6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: True. Haven't many here suggested the Bills take OT at 30? Only if Williams leaves. But he isn't.
Mr. WEO Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc said: Fair enough with Fisher and Schwartz missing time after recent surgeries. But the post to which you responded was talking about their plans, and after losing their 2 best OTs and likely losing their 3rd best OT and starting C, they'll need far more than in-house plans. As for the Chefs' line in the SB being the same as the one playing against the Chefs "for the most part," it wasn't. Fisher played the first 3 quarters against the Bills, by which time they had put the game away. After being lost, the Chefs were forced to move Remmers from RT to LT, playing starting RG Wylie at RT and then start backup LG (Wiesnewski) at RG. And with them losing Fisher, Schwartz and likely Reiter and Remmers, they'll need to Only if Williams leaves. But he isn't. They kept scoring on the Bills without Fisher. As pointed out, these cuts could be seen coming without question. Sensible moves without a doubt. They don’t seem as doubtful about their O line plan as you do.
njbuff Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 12 hours ago, Zerovoltz said: Allow me to clarify alot of this. 1st. As pointed out elsewhere in the thread....Mahomes big money hasn't kicked in at all yet. ...for reference..Ryan Tannehill will make more than Mahomes...FOR TWO MORE YEARS. Furthermore, you'll see it in the next few days...KC will just convert a bunch of guys "roster" bonus over to "signing" bonus and kick that money down the road....open plenty of space....this is not a CAP hell situation for the Chiefs. Todays moves weren't about losing their top 2 offenseive tackles...KC lost both of them during the season....and it manifested itself at the worst possible time (Super Bowl) Cutting Fisher, who almost certainly won't play this year....on the last year of his deal....is just smart conservation of cap space....Schwartz, only played a little to start the year and he was Horrible...you could tell his back was BAD. He's been outstanding when healthy....again, too much of a risk for KC to hold onto for a guy with what appears to be serious back injury.... I'm not telling anyone this is good...but the moves today were just reallocating money back to the roster/cap, that was going to players who we ALREADY don't have now. Mahomes did start out in a good situation....but his line has gotten worse each year and game he's played. Mitch Morse leaving was the beginning of the the line regressing. Mahomes hides some O line problems.....especially the bad interior line because at least the Tackles were good....he couldn't overcome 5 really bad JAG level guys all starting in the SB.... KC's line has been horrible and unable to generate push for 3 years going now...limits the red zone stuff and goal line stuff....adn 1 yard to go stuff KC can do.....IF they put together a a new line that can get some push....it MIGHT...(I said MIGHT) be a plus. This needs context. Austin Reiter is the worst starting C in the NFL. He has been the last two years. He gets NO push, and he doen'st allow sacks because his job is to help one of the guards double someone. He's horrible. They can NOT possibly bring in a worse replacement......EXHIBIT A: Go back and watch KC Bills week 6. KC started Daniel Kilgore at C that game.....I was SURE KC would keep roling with Kilgore...he was awesome that game...and he was also awesome in the other game he started this year for KC....should have started the whole year. Reiter SUCKS. Moving on from him does NOT make things easier for the otehr team..this is GOOD FOR KC. I want to agree with this.....when Josh Allen got to the Bills...you guys had one of the worst lines I've ever seen.....congrats to Beane and McD for getting that thing turned over into somehting good in a short time. Too early to say yet....I would venture to guess that KC is going to rebuild the line, but that line chemistry is one of the most underrated aspects of football. No matter who KC rolls out there, it's going to take time to get the chemistry rolling. That alone will probably hold the O back some. but if they can put a decent group on the field that can A) get some chemistry and B) get a little push in short yardage, then KC's O should round into high level form as the season goes on. I have other thoughts on that, but this isn't the place for it. Let me hit the starting C leaving again....that was the plan no matter what. Reiter Sucks (and you can find posts I've put on this board saying so for a long time) KC also did draft Lucas Niang from TCU in round 3 last year. He had 1st round grades, but injury red flags....he opted out of this past season for Covid...but reports are he's all healed up....so if Niang is legit..that's one replacement. In this odd COVID FA year...there may well be some decent bargain linemen available in FA...and this is a deep draft at OT.....KC SHOULD be able to get this built back up in short order......it's the key to their offseason for sure. With all this said............ the Chiefs offense was still able to do whatever they wanted against the Bills.
Doc Posted March 13, 2021 Posted March 13, 2021 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: They kept scoring on the Bills without Fisher. As pointed out, these cuts could be seen coming without question. Sensible moves without a doubt. They don’t seem as doubtful about their O line plan as you do. They scored 7 points in the 4th quarter. And how do you figure they don't seem doubtful? You think they're going to come out and say it?
Mr. WEO Posted March 13, 2021 Posted March 13, 2021 59 minutes ago, Doc said: They scored 7 points in the 4th quarter. And how do you figure they don't seem doubtful? You think they're going to come out and say it? they’ve done the math, doc. This is clear. They came to a different conclusion than yours. That’s something they probably won’t announce, no....
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