Star L. possible cut?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Guys, I’m going to stay on the positive side of things.

 

Star is going to come back a shredded 315 pounds of pure 3Tech nastiness 

[yall]

5 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Your friends sources are wrong.  Star’s contract makes it very unlikely he gets cut.  Too much dead cap space.   

Yeah I agree after seeing the informative responses on his cap hit a cut is super unlikely. 

 

But I think it's two scenarios at this point; retirement or just offloading his house and grabbing an apartment and sending the fam back home.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by yall
Spelling

[ndirish1978]

If Star decides to retire I'd hope he'd at least agree to a contract restructure so we can spread that cap hit out over a few years to not screw us. It's doable. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

If Star decides to retire I'd hope he'd at least agree to a contract restructure so we can spread that cap hit out over a few years to not screw us. It's doable. 

If Star retires, I don’t think there are options for spreading the cap other than doing it post-June 1.  But again, if he retires, the Bills can request refund of his amortized signing bonus and his guaranteed salary.  
 

Sometimes teams say “here, have a present” like the Colts did with Luck.  Other times the player says up front he’ll return it.  In the middle, sometimes it gets messy.  

5 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Guys, I’m going to stay on the positive side of things.

 

Star is going to come back a shredded 315 pounds of pure 3Tech nastiness 

But we need a 1T

 

Is this like the joke about the guy who asks his doctor if he’ll be able to dance after his broken leg heals?  “Sure” “That’s great, I couldn’t before!”

 

Anyway hope you’re right on the shredded nastiness and the 315

[TPS]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

If Star retires, I don’t think there are options for spreading the cap other than doing it post-June 1.  But again, if he retires, the Bills can request refund of his amortized signing bonus and his guaranteed salary.  
 

Sometimes teams say “here, have a present” like the Colts did with Luck.  Other times the player says up front he’ll return it.  In the middle, sometimes it gets messy.  

Can't they do what Brees did?

[Thurman#1]

On 3/12/2021 at 9:38 PM, yall said:

Well I confirmed it then, albeit inadvertently...

 

 

Yeah, I think you're misunderstanding what people mean when they say they want confirmation.

 

Reminds me of the old Rodney Dangerfield joke: 

 

 

Guy goes into a doctor's office.

 

Doctor does some tests and says, "You've got cancer."

 

Guy says, "I want a second opinion."

 

Doctor says, "OK, you've got cancer and you're ugly."

 

 

 

When we say we want confirmation, we're looking for a second source. 

 

When some guy on the internet says something and we say we want confirmation, that doesn't mean that if the same guy says the same thing again we'll all say, "Oh, the anonymous guy from the internet said it again. Guess that puts any doubt to rest. When someone says something twice, well, it's always true.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Agree on pretty much everything but Fromm/Barkley.  That the Bills kept Fromm on the 53-man roster tells me they liked enough of what they saw to not risk cutting him to try and sneak him onto the PS.  He is a supposedly a quick study and will have had a year in the NFL and in the system anyway.  And while he didn't have the same experience most rookies do, he'll get that this year.  Again the tight cap make Barkley expendable, but he's unlikely to get offers so they should keep him on speed dial, while Webb will likely be on the PS.

 

 

It shouldn't tell you clearly they liked him that much. The Bills have kept three QBs active for three of the last four years. It appears to be the way they like to do business, even without COVID.

 

Another reason a team might keep the COVID replacement QB on the 53-man is so that he could be switched to active up to 30 minutes before a game if the other QBs tested positive just before a game.

 

And even assuming that they do "like him enough to not risk cutting him," that's how they've felt over the years for guys like Andre Smith and Reggie Gilliam, and you don't want those guys or rather QBs who are the equivalents of Andre Smith or Reggie Gilliam to be stepping in to take snaps when Josh Allen is injured for 3 - 5 weeks, you just don't. Fromm is a development guy.

 

And while he's had a year in the NFL, it hasn't been a normal year. He was separated from the other QBs and in fact the other players. He certainly might get a year in the system this year, but he might not. How will the offseason be this year? Will there be offseason get-togethers? Will there be COVID replacement QBs again? If there are

 

Expecting a 5th rounder who again has never thrown an NFL pass to be the backup after one season in which he couldn't do the things ordinary backups get to do in practice and meeting ... to expect that guy to step in immediately and play in case of injury is ridiculous. Not much more to say about this, but I'd put the chance on them cutting Barkley and then not replacing him with a vet as very low. And if they think they have the #2 on the roster, they likely think it's Webb, not Fromm.

 

 

 

[Doc]

I guess we’ll see. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Guys, I’m going to stay on the positive side of things.

 

Star is going to come back a shredded 315 pounds of pure 3Tech nastiness 

we like him at 1tech

[Thurman#1]

22 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Agree on pretty much everything but Fromm/Barkley.  That the Bills kept Fromm on the 53-man roster tells me they liked enough of what they saw to not risk cutting him to try and sneak him onto the PS.  He is a supposedly a quick study and will have had a year in the NFL and in the system anyway.  And while he didn't have the same experience most rookies do, he'll get that this year.  Again the tight cap make Barkley expendable, but he's unlikely to get offers so they should keep him on speed dial, while Webb will likely be on the PS.

 

 

 

I thought I'd go back and look at their history, and I've changed my mind. I think they might do what you say, dump Barkley and just keep Fromm.

 

After all, they did virtually the exact same thing three years ago.

 

They drafted a 5th rounder in Fromm, they could then dump a guy with more experience. They were worried that somebody might snag the 5th rounder if they cut him, so they kept him off the practice squad in his 1st and 2nd years, and they then have that 5th rounder in his second year be Josh's first backup.

 

Heck, they already did it that way once, almost precisely the same thing. Why wouldn't they do it again?

 

They drafted a 5th rounder - Nate Peterman - and they were worried another team would grab him if they cut him so they didn't put him on the practice squad in that 5th rounder's 1st or 2nd years. They brought in a guy with more experience in McCarron but decided that with a 2nd year 5th round pick on the roster they didn't need a guy with more experience, so they traded him away and installed Peterman as Josh's backup.

 

Granted Peterman had a few passes thrown as a rookie and a full offseason, so he was significantly more experienced than Fromm.

 

Why would we expect them to do anything different this time?

 

 

Final thought:  Yes, we'll see.

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, TPS said:

Can't they do what Brees did?

 

? Brees hasn't retired yet?  He converted salary to roster bonus and they extended his contract with "void years" which gave the Saints cap room to use now, but as far as I know if he retires, it all gets accelerated into this year unless he's designated post-June1 (in which case guaranteed salary and bonus for this year stay with this year, and the rest goes to next season).

[TheyCallMeAndy]

14 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

we like him at 1tech

Yeahhh I got it backwards, meant 1tech

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

It shouldn't tell you clearly they liked him that much. The Bills have kept three QBs active for three of the last four years. It appears to be the way they like to do business, even without COVID.

 

First off, I don't think you mean "active".  As far as I know, the Bills have never had more than 2 QB active on game days.  I think you may mean "on the roster".

 

Let's start with 2018 when the Bills drafted Josh Allen since that's the current relevance.

 

The Bills dealt themselves into an exceptional circumstance where they expected to let their raw, development-project 1st round rookie sit behind AJ McCarron, but McCarron couldn't get it done and got cut, leaving them scrambing to backfill that "vet QB" niche after Peterman predictably flamed out.  Which the Bills did by combining roles, Anderson for the veteran to demonstrate proper work ethic and preparation habits, and Barkley to actually play if needed once he mastered enough of the playbook.  It was kind of an exceptional circumstance.

 

2019, Barkley established as vet backup, 2 QB.

 

2020, again, exceptional circumstance of Covid, decided to keep an isolated QB and didn't want him poached.  Otherwise, pretty sure it woulda been 2 QB on the roster.

 

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Expecting a 5th rounder who again has never thrown an NFL pass to be the backup after one season in which he couldn't do the things ordinary backups get to do in practice and meeting ... to expect that guy to step in immediately and play in case of injury is ridiculous. Not much more to say about this, but I'd put the chance on them cutting Barkley and then not replacing him with a vet as very low. And if they think they have the #2 on the roster, they likely think it's Webb, not Fromm.

 

I tend to agree with you that at present, if they think they have a backup on the roster, it's Webb.  But that's only based on glimpses.

 

On the other hand....look around the league. 

Jags.  Gardiner Minshew.  6th round 2019 draft pick, comes in and plays respectably.

Panthers.  Taylor Heinicke undrafted in 2015, rattles around the league for 3 years, comes in in 2018, plays respectably except picks until injured and is replaced by...

                  Kyle Allen, undrafted 2018, who then replaced Heinicke and did OK, did even better in 2019 - team record 5-7 but 5 TD and 0 int in his 1st 4 starts.

                  (Heinicke did well in the playoffs in 2020 after being out of football)

Steelers    Duck Hodges, UDFA 2019, who replaced the Reindeer in 2019 - 3-3 record with him

49ers        Nick Mullins, UDFA 2017, got his chance in 2018 and team was 3-5 with him

 

Point being that there are a number of teams that have had to rely on late round, inexperienced QB their 1st or 2nd year in the league and have done OK, provided the defense was decent. 

 

Peterman is an...interesting case.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

36 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

I thought I'd go back and look at their history, and I've changed my mind. I think they might do what you say, dump Barkley and just keep Fromm.

 

After all, they did virtually the exact same thing three years ago.

 

They drafted a 5th rounder in Fromm, they could then dump a guy with more experience. They were worried that somebody might snag the 5th rounder if they cut him, so they kept him off the practice squad in his 1st and 2nd years, and they then have that 5th rounder in his second year be Josh's first backup.

 

Heck, they already did it that way once, almost precisely the same thing. Why wouldn't they do it again?

 

I think we all must admit that Peterman is an anomaly in the league, because he has somehow hypnotized not one, not two, but three NFL offensive coordinators (who have actually been OCs on winning teams) into believing that he has what it takes to be an NFL QB.  This has happened on not one, but two NFL teams and in fact he is still on an NFL roster as we type, and it persists despite his record-setting interception rate.

 

All I can say about that is That's Some *****. 

 

I think what Peterman has must be Catnip for Coaches in the film room and on the scout team.  He must be a Whiteboard Wizard who can ace the test "here's 1 second of defensive formation, what is the answer to "where do you go with the ball"? on the video screen. 

 

Either that, or Peterdude's got naughty pictures of first Sean McDermott and now Jon Gruden having a 3-way that involved an underaged Ovine.  Only thing I can think of; two pedicure models and a bottle of Wesson oil under black-lights would not be nearly enough.

 

36 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

They drafted a 5th rounder - Nate Peterman - and they were worried another team would grab him if they cut him so they didn't put him on the practice squad in that 5th rounder's 1st or 2nd years. They brought in a guy with more experience in McCarron but decided that with a 2nd year 5th round pick on the roster they didn't need a guy with more experience, so they traded him away and installed Peterman as Josh's backup.

 

Granted Peterman had a few passes thrown as a rookie and a full offseason, so he was significantly more experienced than Fromm.

 

Golly, with how well that turned out, why would we expect them to do anything different this time?

 

C'mon Man.  You don't see any differences between then and now? 

 

You don't see any difference between having a raw rookie who needs to learn how to prepare in the NFL, how to break down film, how to run an NFL practice, basically everything? -vs- now, where Josh Allen is the established starter on the Bills with a near-MVP like season and two playoff wins?

 

The one situation begs for an established starter and it was really negligent not to bring in a veteran the second McCarron got cut (something Beane has publicly acknowledged as a mistake).

 

The current situation could arguably be handled by a guy who can play QB well enough that we could break even or nearly break even for 6 games - as, you know, a bunch of other teams have.

 

It does require that the guy they keep actually be able to play QB on the level of Duck Hodges, Gardner Minshew, Kyle Allen, Taylor Heineke, or Nick Mullins, I grant you that.

[PrimeTime101]

On 3/11/2021 at 8:14 AM, yall said:

Good friend of mine with pretty accurate sources tells me he has reason to believe Star Lotulelei is gonna get cut. Based on what he shared with me, seems very possible.

 

From a cap perspective, does it make sense? I didn't get the feeling he was a likely candidate for release.

Back on topic. There is a great way to tell if someone has dropped a good amount of weight and that is looking at there face. This video was 8 months ago 

Interesting that during an interview he is wearing a hoodie that is way bigger then him with the hood over his head.

 

Then I look at this picture 

 

Again we are comparing side views with front view but that face is much more sucked in.

 

I have checked with a couple of my sources and they are not saying a WORD! which usually means something is up.

 

but in comparing. this is interesting look.

 

Me personally, I think the OP is spot on, I think he has lost weight and is not the same player.

 

Leads me to question... did he opt out cause he was not in the shape buffalo wanted him to be in or new they would want to be in?

Edited March 13, 2021 by PrimeTime101

[ghostwriter]

On 3/11/2021 at 1:57 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I wouldn’t. They need a NT and moving him costs more money than playing him

Sometimes players are cut on principle and not because of financial logistics.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, Victory Formation said:

Sometimes players are cut on principle and not because of financial logistics.

We don’t have the cap absorb dead money  because fans don’t like his stat line. 

[ghostwriter]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

We don’t have the cap absorb dead money  because fans don’t like his stat line. 

Fair enough. I just get the idea that there’s lots of friction between Star and this front office. Didn’t make sense financially for the Raiders to cut Brown neither. We’re going on almost 2 years now without Star playing football, I just get the sense that he’s lazy and not very driven. COVID sucks, but you can just as easily get it in a restaurant or a night out than you could on a football field.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

I believe his 4.5M base salary is fully guaranteed, so the only reason to cut him would be if he was not worth the 1M in roster and workout bonuses.  Basically they would have to believe that they are better off with a 3rd round pick in the rotation rather than Star.  If that was the case, he could be cut to save 1M and develop a younger player and then they would be forced to restructure someone to handle the dead cap.  Hopefully he is committed to playing and has a great year for us this year.

[Don Otreply]

This Star stuff is starting to have a conspiracy theory tinge to it... 😁👍