Has anyone seen an actual good breakdown of the Bills DL?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

For all the talk of cut Butler, cut Jefferson, etc etc - has anyone seen a quality breakdown of how they were actually used this year and performance?

 

I personally have trouble with Joe Buscaglia's grades - they might be great, but I can't tell what they're based on.

 

I've been looking and haven't found something - film breakdown, even just an assessment of how many snaps each DLman played and in what role 1T, 3T etc?

 

I started to try for my own assessment and quickly gave it up as more time than I had to put into it - the way the cameras are angled it's often very hard to pick up who is on the field for each snap.  But it probably exists somewhere - maybe on SIS or premium PFF or Football Outsiders?

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

For all the talk of cut Butler, cut Jefferson, etc etc - has anyone seen a quality breakdown of how they were actually used this year and performance?

 

I personally have trouble with Joe Buscaglia's grades - they might be great, but I can't tell what they're based on.

 

I've been looking and haven't found something - film breakdown, even just an assessment of how many snaps each DLman played and in what role 1T, 3T etc?

 

I started to try for my own assessment and quickly gave it up as more time than I had to put into it - the way the cameras are angled it's often very hard to pick up who is on the field for each snap.  But it probably exists somewhere - maybe on SIS or premium PFF or Football Outsiders?

 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2021/3/8/22309283/state-of-the-buffalo-bills-roster-interior-defensive-linemen-ed-oliver-star-lotulelei-vernon-butler

 

this might help

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2021/3/8/22309283/state-of-the-buffalo-bills-roster-interior-defensive-linemen-ed-oliver-star-lotulelei-vernon-butler

 

this might help

 

Appreciate it but while it's better than some others in actually mentioning what different guys natural positions are and whether they were playing in it or out of it, it's kind of more of the same -

 

-what I'd like to see is a breakdown of how much Butler, or Jefferson, or Oliver, or Harry, or Zimmer, were playing 3TDT vs 1TDT vs edge vs some variant

[Big Blitz]

We need an upgrade at the 1 tech.

 

Oliver needs to stay at the 3 and improve significantly.  He was fine but we need top 10 pick production.

 

AJ needs to make a big jump.  

 

Hughes still to be as effective as he's been.

 

 

If those things happen it will be a better line then it was in 2020.  

[PrimeTime101]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Appreciate it but while it's better than some others in actually mentioning what different guys natural positions are and whether they were playing in it or out of it, it's kind of more of the same -

 

-what I'd like to see is a breakdown of how much Butler, or Jefferson, or Oliver, or Harry, or Zimmer, were playing 3TDT vs 1TDT vs edge vs some variant

you need to be registered in one of the websites to get that kind of break down. Forget where but yea thats the only way...

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

We need an upgrade at the 1 tech.

 

Oliver needs to stay at the 3 and improve significantly.  He was fine but we need top 10 pick production.

 

AJ needs to make a big jump.  

 

Hughes still to be as effective as he's been.

 

 

If those things happen it will be a better line then it was in 2020.  

we have that in Star. the question is will he be and stay healthy this year.. That was our problem all last year.. our defense was not dictating who the O'Line was going to double team.. the offensive lines dictated it.. and that was a big part of our issue.

[warrior9]

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

We need an upgrade at the 1 tech.

 

Oliver needs to stay at the 3 and improve significantly.  He was fine but we need top 10 pick production.

 

AJ needs to make a big jump.  

 

Hughes still to be as effective as he's been.

 

 

If those things happen it will be a better line then it was in 2020.  

Star comes back.. which will help. I'd love to us make a run at Jurrell Casey. This would allow us to use Oliver and Phillips in that 3T role. I think Phillips will grow into a nice 1T eventually as well. I want to see Oliver in the position we drafted him to be to truly assess his performance. 

 

I, for one, don't think he was as bad at 1T as many think he was for being a 285lb 1T  

Edited March 9, 2021 by warrior9

[PrimeTime101]

11 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Star comes back.. which will help. I'd love to us make a run at Jurrell Casey. This would allow us to use Oliver and Phillips in that 3T role. I think Phillips will grow into a nice 1T eventually as well. I want to see Oliver in the position we drafted him to be to truly assess his performance. 

 

I, for one, don't think he was as bad at 1T as many think he was for being a 285lb 1T  

yea 285 pounds is why it DOES make him a bad choice for one Tech. and it showed.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

For all the talk of cut Butler, cut Jefferson, etc etc - has anyone seen a quality breakdown of how they were actually used this year and performance?

 

I personally have trouble with Joe Buscaglia's grades - they might be great, but I can't tell what they're based on.

 

I've been looking and haven't found something - film breakdown, even just an assessment of how many snaps each DLman played and in what role 1T, 3T etc?

 

I started to try for my own assessment and quickly gave it up as more time than I had to put into it - the way the cameras are angled it's often very hard to pick up who is on the field for each snap.  But it probably exists somewhere - maybe on SIS or premium PFF or Football Outsiders?

 

 

 

I don't think I can say I truly understand the nuances of the position.  I think chemistry is a greater part than we might give it credit, and they struggled a lot to start the year with the truncated camp situation.  

 

This season in general was a bit more of a challenge too with officiating seeming to allow more holding - which benefits rushing as well as passing offenses.  The ineligible man downfield rule also seems to be a bit less enforced than it was in the past, allowing more teams to effectively run RPOs (KC shredded us with these in the first meeting).  

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

We need an upgrade at the 1 tech.

 

Oliver needs to stay at the 3 and improve significantly.  He was fine but we need top 10 pick production.

 

AJ needs to make a big jump.  

 

Hughes still to be as effective as he's been.

 

 

If those things happen it will be a better line then it was in 2020.  

I like the idea of Star at the 1 for early/rushing downs and Oliver manning it on late/passing downs.  He can split time at the 3 as well, but his rush defense sucked last season.  I want him to have a chance to earn those snaps back, but I don’t want them handed to him. 

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Relying on Star would be an awful idea... not only because he sat out last season but because he's not very good either...

While I agree, he’s on the team this season due to his contract so we might as well see what he can do against the run.

[PrimeTime101]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Relying on Star would be an awful idea... not only because he sat out last season but because he's not very good either...

he drew double team the prior year before Injury and that is all you really need out of your one tech DT. that is the whole point, draw 2 people. no he is not a great player but we cant have great players at every position in the year we are in cap hell. Its sticky situation. only time will tell

[GoBills808]

25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Relying on Star would be an awful idea... not only because he sat out last season but because he's not very good either...

We were 26th ranked defense in 2017 before he showed up...immediately improved to 2nd and 3rd in 2018 and 2019 respectively...dropped back to 14th on 2020 when he opted out with essentially the same personnel. Pretty interesting stats for a not very good player I’d say.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Think that's more a byproduct of the schedule and QBs/offenses faced compared to this past season. 

We literally took Brady off the schedule 2x this year.

[Saxum]

50 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I don't think I can say I truly understand the nuances of the position.  I think chemistry is a greater part than we might give it credit, and they struggled a lot to start the year with the truncated camp situation.  

 

This season in general was a bit more of a challenge too with officiating seeming to allow more holding - which benefits rushing as well as passing offenses.  The ineligible man downfield rule also seems to be a bit less enforced than it was in the past, allowing more teams to effectively run RPOs (KC shredded us with these in the first meeting).  

 

It is amazing IMO for all of those call changing by Zebras in a year where many referees went full time and part of the argument for full time referees is they would be used more in training camps, etc.  What were they paid for then since clearly they were not studying rules and ensuring even enforcement?

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Brady and the Patriots offense were struggling towards the end of the 2019 season and still had a successful day against the Bills in week 16 of that season. 

 

The Bills played Darnold x 2, a washed Eli Manning, Dalton, Brady x 2, Haskins, Tannehill, Brandon Allen, Dak, Duck Hodges, Lamar Jackson(who they made look even worse this year without Star), and Fitz x 2, and then Watson who went off on the Bills defense in the 2nd half of that playoff game.... the opposite of a QB gauntlet. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the year before? Keep in mind the Panthers defense showed a similar progression/regression with and without him.

[Freddie's Dead]

I thought they broke down really well in the AFCCG....  Clearly we need Star back ASAP.  Hopefully he comes to camp in shape and ready to go.  Ed Oliver needs to put up or shut up.  

[BarleyNY]

49 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

he drew double team the prior year before Injury and that is all you really need out of your one tech DT. that is the whole point, draw 2 people. no he is not a great player but we cant have great players at every position in the year we are in cap hell. Its sticky situation. only time will tell

If he can consistently draw sustained double teams and keep Edmunds clean, then I’ll be happy with him.  Lots of people mention that he did that in 2019.  I watched for it and I saw him handled by a single blocker or a quick chip from a second far more often than not.  And I saw him moved consistently.  That’s definitely not a statistical analysis and I can’t find one so don’t take it as gospel.  At any rate he’s on the team this year so I’m hoping for the best from him.

[GreggTX]

Here's mine. Hughes can still play. Oliver is OK, but still a disappointment considering where he was drafted. I mean, we should be talking about how Oliver is making the guys around him look better, not how he needs better players around him to reach his peak. The rest of the DL consists of backup caliber players. Addison, Jefferson and Butler are WAY overpaid and should all be released to make cap space. Murphy was overpaid as well and should be gone. Epinesa didn't impress. Beane needs to quit signing below average DL and paying them like solid starters.

 

Move heaven and earth to get Von Miller in here and draft a 1-tech. Don't resign Lotulelei who is also overpaid.

[Eastport bills]

Bills D-line is just OK. They can generate pressure if they blitz, but Addison, Epenesa ,Murphy and the interior lineman can't do it effectively. Maybe if Hughes had another sack guy on the opposite side, we could get consistent pressure. The difference between getting pressure with the D-line only is huge for the LBs and the back end..

[YattaOkasan]

25 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Move heaven and earth to get Von Miller in here and draft a 1-tech. Don't resign Lotulelei who is also overpaid.

HAHA you were in the Williams vs Milano thread saying we should retain Williams, Feliciano, and sign a pro bowl OL.  Not sure what resigning Star means, but if it means cutting him I don't know what else to say other than youre not thinking about this seriously.  Moving Heaven and Earth will not be enough for the wish list you described with Von Miller.

Edited March 9, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[gobills404]

Here's a good cut up of 20+ plays for those who think we should cut Jefferson.