HOUSE Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 Anyone that follows the Cowboys owner realizes he will be fine spending the money but anything less then a SUPERBOWL win will never fly
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 6 hours ago, FireChans said: This is what you and @Alphadawg7 don’t seem to understand. Being overpaid does not mean “we are better off letting you walk.” Half of the players in the NFL are overpaid. 10 years ago, we “overpaid” for Mario Williams. He was our best defensive player and an All-Pro. That’s Free Agency. That’s the NFL. The NFL has a fixed number of wins possible and every year, 31 other teams are trying to steal yours. If you let a talented player walk at the most important position, and you fail to adequately replace him 4 years later, with multiple losing seasons, YOU FAILED. The Vikings went further with Case Keenum. No Washington fan ever says they miss Cousins. And Mario Williams was arguably the 1st or 2nd best DE when he was here. Cousins never came close to that level at his position. part of the reason the Vikings sucked this year is because they had to let talent go because they had to overpay Cousins. He’s solid but hardly a franchise changing qb. And the Vikings will be mediocre as long as they have him at that price. 1
FireChans Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But while Minnesota didn't get any better the WFT did get worse.... This is the crux. It’s argued that overpaying for a let’s say Alex Smith tier QB to be competitive is somehow bad. KC parlayed a competitive era with Smith into two SB appearances and one win. The Ravens had money tied up with Flacco and won a decent amount of games AND found an MVP QB. The difference between the “good” franchises and the trash ones is that they don’t have to have a great QB to be good teams. That’s why Washington sucks and has sucked forever. That’s why the Bills pre-Marrone sucked. The Pats had signed Bledsoe to a 10 year $100M contract and were competitive before Brady ever stepped on the field. If the 49ers walk from Jimmy G and win a Super Bowl in 2 years with one of the rookies or acquire an upgrade at QB, no one is going to say “man what a waste those Jimmy G years were.” Incredibly, QB’s tend to have more success when they are inserted on a good team with a strong winning culture instead of some bottom feeder with a million draft picks and a horrific culture. It’s why Sam Darnold’s career is in jeopardy. 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The Vikings went further with Case Keenum. No Washington fan ever says they miss Cousins. And Mario Williams was arguably the 1st or 2nd best DE when he was here. Cousins never came close to that level at his position. part of the reason the Vikings sucked this year is because they had to let talent go because they had to overpay Cousins. He’s solid but hardly a franchise changing qb. And the Vikings will be mediocre as long as they have him at that price. The Vikings have been way better than WFT since gaining Cousins. Case Keenum was a mirage, as evidenced by the fact that he eventually went to WFT and went 1-7 as a starter. A truly hilarious argument. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But while Minnesota didn't get any better the WFT did get worse.... They were 9-7 and 8-7-1 with Cousins and went 7-9 the first 2 years after he left. again, he’s not terrible but he’s not a franchise elevator. He’s dorky Alex Smith with throws the ball down the field a little more. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But while Minnesota didn't get any better the WFT did get worse.... I mean no disrespect at all, I enjoy you as a poster and respect you, but this reply here couldn’t be less relevant to what I’ve been saying and what we’ve been discussing. I mean literally my entire point has been that sometimes it’s better to get worse so you can get better versus just committing to mediocrity for the sake of winning a few more regular season games. Edited March 10, 2021 by Alphadawg7
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: This is the crux. It’s argued that overpaying for a let’s say Alex Smith tier QB to be competitive is somehow bad. KC parlayed a competitive era with Smith into two SB appearances and one win. The Ravens had money tied up with Flacco and won a decent amount of games AND found an MVP QB. The difference between the “good” franchises and the trash ones is that they don’t have to have a great QB to be good teams. That’s why Washington sucks and has sucked forever. That’s why the Bills pre-Marrone sucked. The Pats had signed Bledsoe to a 10 year $100M contract and were competitive before Brady ever stepped on the field. If the 49ers walk from Jimmy G and win a Super Bowl in 2 years with one of the rookies or acquire an upgrade at QB, no one is going to say “man what a waste those Jimmy G years were.” Incredibly, QB’s tend to have more success when they are inserted on a good team with a strong winning culture instead of some bottom feeder with a million draft picks and a horrific culture. It’s why Sam Darnold’s career is in jeopardy. The Vikings have been way better than WFT since gaining Cousins. Case Keenum was a mirage, as evidenced by the fact that he eventually went to WFT and went 1-7 as a starter. A truly hilarious argument. And keep pounding the table for a guy who signed at the time the richest contract in nfl history who has a .500 record (he is a whooping 4 games over .500 in Minny though!). washington is run by a stupid person. Doesn’t mean they were wrong about not paying Cousins. 1
FireChans Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: And keep pounding the table for a guy who signed at the time the richest contract in nfl history who has a .500 record (he is a whooping 4 games over .500 in Minny though!). washington is run by a stupid person. Doesn’t mean they were wrong about not paying Cousins. 17-31 since letting the man out of the building. Numbers don’t lie 1
GunnerBill Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I mean no disrespect at all, I enjoy you as a poster and respect you, but this reply here couldn’t be less relevant to what I’ve been saying and what we’ve been discussing. I mean literally my entire point has been that sometimes it’s better to get worse so you can get better versus just committing to mediocrity for the sake of winning a few more regular season games. But Washington three years later is not better. Your decisions don't get 5 years to bear fruit in the NFL. It isn't the way it works. Cousins isn't a star. No debate there. But Washington tried to sign him they didn't make a distinct decision to move on and 3 years after screwing that up they are starting 4 different QBs in a single season. That is failure.
FireChans Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I mean no disrespect at all, I enjoy you as a poster and respect you, but this reply here couldn’t be less relevant to what I’ve been saying and what we’ve been discussing. I mean literally my entire point has been that sometimes it’s better to get worse so you can get better versus just committing to mediocrity for the sake of winning a few more regular season games. Is it? Isn’t your whole argument, “my goal is to win a Super Bowl?” Out of the last 15 Superbowls, which teams jettisoned a good NFL starting QB and got worse to get good enough to win a Super Bowl? Peyton Manning I guess?
Alphadawg7 Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, FireChans said: 17-31 since letting the man out of the building. Numbers don’t lie Who cares though...I mean Washington keeping Cousins and instead going say 25-23 wouldn’t be any better. No one plays for regular season wins, they play for Championships. I will take the current WFT roster and cap situation right now over the Cousins led one 100 times over and so would just about anyone else. 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But Washington three years later is not better. Your decisions don't get 5 years to bear fruit in the NFL. It isn't the way it works. Cousins isn't a star. No debate there. But Washington tried to sign him they didn't make a distinct decision to move on and 3 years after screwing that up they are starting 4 different QBs in a single season. That is failure. I didn’t say Washington was good at it. Just because they didn’t have a good enough front office doesn’t make it wrong. I do think their staff is better now and that roster is up and coming with some really good young talent. Outside of QB, it’s a better roster and better cap situation. And let’s not forget the QB carousel also happened due to bad luck of a horrific leg injury to the guy who was supposed to hold the position for a little bit. And that same guy after almost losing his leg came in this year and made WFT a better team when he was on the field and a tough out despite people saying he would never play again. 1
GunnerBill Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Who cares though...I mean Washington keeping Cousins and instead going say 25-23 wouldn’t be any better. No one plays for regular season wins, they play for Championships. I will take the current WFT roster and cap situation right now over the Cousins led one 100 times over and so would just about anyone else. I didn’t say Washington was good at it. Just because they didn’t have a good enough front office doesn’t make it wrong. I do think their staff is better now and that roster is up and coming with some really good young talent. Outside of QB, it’s a better roster and better cap situation. And let’s not forget the QB carousel also happened due to bad luck of a horrific leg injury to the guy who was supposed to hold the position for a little bit. And that same guy after almost losing his leg came in this year and made WFT a better team when he was on the field and a tough out despite people saying he would never play again. But you can't say they made the right decision when all the evidence says they didn't. 1
FireChans Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Who cares though...I mean Washington keeping Cousins and instead going say 25-23 wouldn’t be any better. No one plays for regular season wins, they play for Championships. I will take the current WFT roster and cap situation right now over the Cousins led one 100 times over and so would just about anyone else. I didn’t say Washington was good at it. Just because they didn’t have a good enough front office doesn’t make it wrong. I do think their staff is better now and that roster is up and coming with some really good young talent. Outside of QB, it’s a better roster and better cap situation. And let’s not forget the QB carousel also happened due to bad luck of a horrific leg injury to the guy who was supposed to hold the position for a little bit. And that same guy after almost losing his leg came in this year and made WFT a better team when he was on the field and a tough out despite people saying he would never play again. Yeah your argument comes down to “hope” but with really no backing. WFT’s chances of winning a Super Bowl aren’t really any higher than any of the other mediocre teams in the NFL, they just have a few more lotto tickets. That’s not worth much of anything. It is the way to keep the fans dreams alive as you continue to suck over and over and over again. 1
GunnerBill Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Yeah your argument comes down to “hope” but with really no backing. WFT’s chances of winning a Super Bowl aren’t really any higher than any of the other mediocre teams in the NFL, they just have a few more lotto tickets. That’s not worth much of anything. It is the way to keep the fans dreams alive as you continue to suck over and over and over again. Exactly this.
Chicken Boo Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 6 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: The Bills were a QB away for over 20 years. That tall order can be as high as Mount Everest. No doubt, it's the hardest piece of the puzzle to acquire, but QBs are available via trade. They just have sack up and make the move.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But you can't say they made the right decision when all the evidence says they didn't. Wrong. Evidence says that 100% proof Cousins was not worth being paid the most in NFL history, which is what he was wanting from WFT. 26 minutes ago, FireChans said: Yeah your argument comes down to “hope” but with really no backing. WFT’s chances of winning a Super Bowl aren’t really any higher than any of the other mediocre teams in the NFL, they just have a few more lotto tickets. That’s not worth much of anything. It is the way to keep the fans dreams alive as you continue to suck over and over and over again. Not my argument at all...you clearly are missing the point. Its comical to see you arguing to me that WFT would be a better team right now had they paid Cousins the richest contract in NFL history when they were not a good football team when they had him. 1
GunnerBill Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Wrong. Evidence says that 100% proof Cousins was not worth being paid the most in NFL history, which is what he was wanting from WFT. How long would he have been that? Months? It is the market.
FireChans Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Wrong. Evidence says that 100% proof Cousins was not worth being paid the most in NFL history, which is what he was wanting from WFT. Not my argument at all...you clearly are missing the point. Its comical to see you arguing to me that WFT would be a better team right now had they paid Cousins the richest contract in NFL history when they were not a good football team when they had him. No your point is they were bad to be good later. But they aren’t. They just might be. That’s hope. They have been bad and they are still bad. They are in the bottom half of teams in the NFL without many appreciable differences from the other crappy teams. They just might not be. That’s selling hope. You also haven’t pointed to when this has resulted in a Super Bowl win in the modern NFL, but that is your standard for why paying a guy like Cousins is silly.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 40 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Who cares though...I mean Washington keeping Cousins and instead going say 25-23 wouldn’t be any better. No one plays for regular season wins, they play for Championships. I will take the current WFT roster and cap situation right now over the Cousins led one 100 times over and so would just about anyone else. I didn’t say Washington was good at it. Just because they didn’t have a good enough front office doesn’t make it wrong. I do think their staff is better now and that roster is up and coming with some really good young talent. Outside of QB, it’s a better roster and better cap situation. And let’s not forget the QB carousel also happened due to bad luck of a horrific leg injury to the guy who was supposed to hold the position for a little bit. And that same guy after almost losing his leg came in this year and made WFT a better team when he was on the field and a tough out despite people saying he would never play again. For real. If Alex Smith (Cousins’ less dorky twin) does have his leg explode, there is almost no difference between Washington with or without Cousins. In fact, they were better (they were 6-3 when it happened). No team lets a legit franchise qb hit free agency unless there’s a major injury or they don’t believe in him. The fact that Cousins hasn’t taken Minnesota any further than Keenum and Washington was perfectly fine until Smith’s leg exploding shows he’s not elevating your franchise. And Minnesota is going to lose a lot of good talent because they paid cousins that much. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: For real. If Alex Smith (Cousins’ less dorky twin) does have his leg explode, there is almost no difference between Washington with or without Cousins. In fact, they were better (they were 6-3 when it happened). No team lets a legit franchise qb hit free agency unless there’s a major injury or they don’t believe in him. The fact that Cousins hasn’t taken Minnesota any further than Keenum and Washington was perfectly fine until Smith’s leg exploding shows he’s not elevating your franchise. And Minnesota is going to lose a lot of good talent because they paid cousins that much. Couldn't agree more, and honestly, its pretty indisputable really.
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