warrior9 Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I can see an argument either way. On the one had, he solidified the position. On the other, you can't improve the run game without improving the OL, and you can't improve the OL without making some change. Yupp and allowed us to move Ford to guard. Williams did struggle at times run blocking. To play devil's advocate here a little, with Josh Allen as your QB, wouldn't we want to keep a RT (if we can get a good salary comp) that can pass block with room to improve for run blocking as opposed to the opposite? 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, warrior9 said: Williams did struggle at times run blocking. To play devil's advocate here a little, with Josh Allen as your QB, wouldn't we want to keep a RT (if we can get a good salary comp) that can pass block with room to improve for run blocking as opposed to the opposite? Sure, and that's why I say I can see an argument either way. But to Devil's Advocate right back atcha, if Williams wants to be paid (and receives) Big Boy Bucks, like the $10-12M/yr, 3-4 year deal some are saying he should receive - isn't that what you pay for the complete package at RT, not for a good pass-blocking RT that you hope will improve as a run blocker? What if he doesn't step up the run blocking, and you're stuck with an albatross in terms of guaranteed money and amortized signing bonus? The only thing I'll say (and McBeane would be in position to know this) is if he was a better run blocker in Carolina before his injuries and movement around the line, and they feel it's something he can get back with some more reps and maybe more consistent guard play next to him.
YattaOkasan Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 Just dropping by to say we only have 6 OL on the roster even. This include Jordan Devey, Ryan Bates, and Trey Adams. We have a huge need on the OL. Put me in the camp of resign Williams and draft 2 OL this year (1 Tackle 1 iOL) along with a tender for Ike. Numbers from https://overthecap.com/calculator/buffalo-bills/ 1
warrior9 Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Sure, and that's why I say I can see an argument either way. But to Devil's Advocate right back atcha, if Williams wants to be paid (and receives) Big Boy Bucks, like the $10-12M/yr, 3-4 year deal some are saying he should receive - isn't that what you pay for the complete package at RT, not for a good pass-blocking RT that you hope will improve as a run blocker? What if he doesn't step up the run blocking, and you're stuck with an albatross in terms of guaranteed money and amortized signing bonus? The only thing I'll say (and McBeane would be in position to know this) is if he was a better run blocker in Carolina before his injuries and movement around the line, and they feel it's something he can get back with some more reps and maybe more consistent guard play next to him. 100%. I would not pay him 10-12. I'd gladly GLADLY pay 8.5. I think the bolded is interesting. I'll go look back at his time in Carolina. I can't remember for sure how he was there.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: Just dropping by to say we only have 6 OL on the roster even. This include Jordan Devey, Ryan Bates, and Trey Adams. We have a huge need on the OL. Put me in the camp of resign Williams and draft 2 OL this year (1 Tackle 1 iOL) along with a tender for Ike. Numbers from https://overthecap.com/calculator/buffalo-bills/ Absolutely. We need way more than 1. We already had Nsekhe on the roster when they drafted Ford. And we already had both of them on the roster when they signed Williams.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, warrior9 said: 100%. I would not pay him 10-12. I'd gladly GLADLY pay 8.5. I think the bolded is interesting. I'll go look back at his time in Carolina. I can't remember for sure how he was there. Right, so that's the quandry. I think the Bills would pay him 3 yrs/$28M or even 4 yrs/$32M quite gladly. But if someone is going to offer him 3 yrs/$36M or $4 years/$40M, should the Bills pay what the market dictates, or move on?
The Jokeman Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Absolutely. We need way more than 1. We already had Nsekhe on the roster when they drafted Ford. And we already had both of them on the roster when they signed Williams. Williams was second time all pro in 2017 so his resume was stronger than what we had. Toss in he played OG for the Panthers in 2019 he looked like a low risk high reward signing. At worst he would have been a backup at best he'd return to his All Pro form. He became somewhere in between. Personally I keep him over Milano since to me he's a better talent and think Milano is easier to replace. 1
warrior9 Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Right, so that's the quandry. I think the Bills would pay him 3 yrs/$28M or even 4 yrs/$32M quite gladly. But if someone is going to offer him 3 yrs/$36M or $4 years/$40M, should the Bills pay what the market dictates, or move on? I think move on. This year specifically, those 2-3 million dollars a year are huge.
BuffaloRebound Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 I think the Bills will consider tagging Williams at $13m if they can’t sign him for $8-9m per year. Might be smart to eat the $4m difference to buy a year of stability at RT and not have to commit long term to him. Somebody will give him $12m over 3 years. Young QB’s have no chance with bad OT play.
BillsfanAZ Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 Unless a good RT is released this coming week, the Bills should try to resign Williams. RT's that can pass protect and are good in the run game are expensive. Try to sign Williams to a 2 yr extension and look for a possible replacement in the draft this year or next. As others have mentioned his pass protection is what is needed for the Bills passing game. Maybe the Bills select a RB with some speed this draft so the outside run game comes into play.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I think the Bills will consider tagging Williams at $13m if they can’t sign him for $8-9m per year. Might be smart to eat the $4m difference to buy a year of stability at RT and not have to commit long term to him. Somebody will give him $12m over 3 years. Young QB’s have no chance with bad OT play. I think Beane will take the attitude "I have good pro personnel people and we're gonna beat the bushes and see who we can find who might be under-appreciated". No way do they take on a $13M hit they can't amortize in this cap-short season.
BuffaloRebound Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think Beane will take the attitude "I have good pro personnel people and we're gonna beat the bushes and see who we can find who might be under-appreciated". No way do they take on a $13M hit they can't amortize in this cap-short season. I hear you, but I just can’t see them gambling on a new Right Tackle when the passing game and Josh just put up franchise records. Yes, the Diggs addition was a huge part of that but so was better pass protection. Letting your Right Tackle walk over $3-4m in one year could turn out to be a huge mistake.
Rubes Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 I'm starting to think the Bills will let both of them walk, and try to replace them in the draft. I do think there are one or two options for RT around pick #30 that could step in and start as a rookie, though it's not ideal. If they go that way, it would be nice if they resigned Feliciano and put the rest of the FA money toward someone like Lawson or Tomlinson.
The Jokeman Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, YattaOkasan said: Just dropping by to say we only have 6 OL on the roster even. This include Jordan Devey, Ryan Bates, and Trey Adams. We have a huge need on the OL. Put me in the camp of resign Williams and draft 2 OL this year (1 Tackle 1 iOL) along with a tender for Ike. Numbers from https://overthecap.com/calculator/buffalo-bills/ Le'Raven Clark from the Colts to me is a veteran we should look at if we let Neskhe walk as he's younger guy who's played Tackle and Guard for the Colts. 1
Aussie Joe Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Le'Raven Clark from the Colts to me is a veteran we should look at if we let Neskhe walk as he's younger guy who's played Tackle and Guard for the Colts. Out of interest... what do you like about him? Can’t say he is on my radar... but only 27... He is earning minimum money at the Colts who signed him to a 1 yr $1.2M deal after his rookie contract so that doesn’t say a lot... Edited March 8, 2021 by Aussie Joe
TheFunPolice Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 protect Josh Allen and keep building the offense. A lot was made of how the Super Bowl "proved" that defense wins, but KC had their top 2 tackles out, and look what happened.
IgotBILLStopay Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 20 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: It looks like the contracts for Milano and Williams are going to be in the same range, around $12-$15mm a year. The question is who is worth more to the team, Williams or Milano? My position is that we need to keep Daryl Williams. He has played at an elite level all season long protecting our franchise QB. I dread a return to the days of shoddy O-Line play like we saw in JA17's rookie season. This team has evolved and we are now winning games on offense, not defense. We need to maximize the ability of Josh and the offense to score points. This decision all boils down to the fact that I value strong O-Line play above what Milano brings to the defense. Even when Milano was healthy our defense struggled this year. Milano missed six games this last season due to injury. The Bills' record was 3-3 during those games without Milano losing to Tenn, K.C., and Arizona while beating Miami, Seattle, and the Chargers. Some would argue the Hail Murray was a fluke and we should have gone 4-2 without Milano. Two of those loses also came when Josh Allen was playing injured. Williams stayed healthy all season and is now back in his All Pro form and he is only 28 years old. He should have another 5-6 good years ahead of him. Nsekhe is also a free agent this season, and while I'm a big Nsekhe fan, he's 35 years old. I think he would be a great re-sign to continue as our swing tackle for injuries, but I don't think anyone expects him to be able to step in and play a full regular season and a deep playoff run. Could we draft another RT? Sure we could and I expect we will, but I doubt Beane and McDermott want to roll the dice on the draft producing a starting rookie RT to protect Josh Allen. Similarly, I don't think McBeane wants to count on Cody Ford as their starting RT. He didn't play well there when he had the chance and is now coming off an injury. I don't see a free agent RT out there who would be a bargain either. It looks like Daryl Williams would be a top 3 RT on the market if he does hit free agency. Trent Williams in San Fran and Taylor Morton Carolina are the other two and both are expected to get resigned and stay where they are. Losing Daryl Williams creates a bigger hole for the Bills to fill than losing Matt Milano. In a perfect world we resign both Milano and Williams. It's more likely though that Beane has to chose just one, and I don't see the sense in giving a huge contract to Josh Allen sometime in the next year while cutting corners on his O-Line at the same time. 12-15 mill per year will be a pipe dream for either player in this market. That said, I agree we cant keep both and I also agree that Williams shd be the higher priority - Smith, Klein, Dodson, an FA and a top 3 round draft pick should fill in adequately for Milano.
Inigo Montoya Posted March 8, 2021 Author Posted March 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: 12-15 mill per year will be a pipe dream for either player in this market. That said, I agree we cant keep both and I also agree that Williams shd be the higher priority - Smith, Klein, Dodson, an FA and a top 3 round draft pick should fill in adequately for Milano. I'd respectfully disagree with you on that. The Bills are up against the cap as are some other teams, but there are 16 teams, half the league, with $25m+ in cap space. Nine teams have $35m+ in cap space. Several of those teams have young QBs behind terrible O-Lines, others are going to draft a rookie QB this year and they will need protection. If Williams gets to free agency he will get between $12-$15m a year. He will be the best free agent RT out there. The entire NFL just watched the best QB in football lose the Super Bowl because he had no offensive line in front of him. It just takes two teams to push the price higher. How much do you think the Bengals will pay for a top tier RT to keep Joe Burrow on his feet this year and off injured reserve? The Bengals have $47m+ in cap space. The Jets are going to draft their franchise QB this year. They have a horrific O-Line. They have $82m+ in cap space. The Jags are going to draft Lawrence. How much is protecting him worth to the Jags? (That's a rhetorical question) They have $85mm+ in cap space. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/ 🍻
Big Blitz Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) If you're good paying Williams 8 or 9 mill per then why not 11-12? We really can't make that work? I'd pay it. Secure the bookends. The argument over him and Milano is of course how replaceable each is. Edited March 8, 2021 by Big Blitz 1
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