Spotrac: freeing up cap space for Bills

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Personally, I would extend Brown and free up money that way.  There’s no reason to break up our weapons.

I think 2019 was his best season.  I dont think Brown reaches that again.  If no upgrade is available I keep him. If they can find a vetbto replace him ir draft a wr high I would understand it.

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

I think 2019 was his best season.  I dont think Brown reaches that again.  If no upgrade is available I keep him. If they can find a vetbto replace him ir draft a wr high I would understand it.

I so disagree with this it is beyond words... Has he slowed down? yes.. but he is still fast.. you can't possibly go from 2019 healthy season to 2020 very unhealthy... played unhealthy and even begin to come up with this assumption.

[Adam727]

I would be on board with restructuring White, Poyer, Dawkins, and cutting Addison/Butler/Jefferson.  That would free up about $35m to resign Feliciano/Williams and hopefully Milano, or maybe a space eater or pass rusher on the DL.  

 

I hope they don't cut Brown or Morse I want to keep as much of last year's offense in tact as possible.  I also wouldn't approach Diggs for a restructure, because if I were him my answer back would be sure, but can I have a raise first?  (Which I'm fine if the team gives him, just hopefully not until next year when our cap space is better)

[Mike in Horseheads]

A lot of this comes back to me  at some point, 40m needs to be laying around for Josh.

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I hear ya.  I’d love to have him back if he were making 4-5M a year, but it all comes back to salary cap for me. I just don’t think he’d sign an extension for 4-5M.  Considering the talent we can sign/draft at WR (with resources MUCH less than the 7-8M he’ll likely cost), I don’t think he’s worth it and I’d rather apply that cap space to other needs.  
 

If he would have gotten separation vs KC in the AFCCG, maybe I’d be singing a different tune, but I watched the game in depth in his performance really disappointed me.  Our offense didn’t seem to miss him when he was out.  He seems like a really expensive depth player and I feel the biggest defense for keeping him is that Josh Allen loves him

You bring up a valid point that I’ve thought about with the shrinking cap and Milano.  
 

Will guys be willing to take deals that spread the money out strangely to help the team.  Also, do any of these guys realize how close we are and want to be a part of it.  
 

I firmly believe we want all of our guys back and it’s just a financial thing.  We aren’t going to lowball Milano because we don’t think he’s worth it.  It’s our reality.  
 

I wonder if that understanding will be taken into consideration by the players. 

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Why release Morse? He will easily fetch a 4th or even a 3rd in the trade market. Centers at 7mill per year dont grow on trees even in the shrinking cap 2021 situation.

 

 

Centers at $7M really do grow on trees.

 

Only 12 centers are on contracts for more than $11M average per year, and one of those 12 is Mitch Morse, who averages $11, though.

 

And it's hard to get much for a guy most other teams think you're likely to cut anyway. Especially this year. IMO you're over-estimating his value. Of course if they decide to cut him they'll look to trade him instead. I think we'll see they won't get what you believe.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He will consume at least $11.8M in cap space over the next two years even if they cut him today.

 

If they cut him post June 1 they can push some of that cap debt off to 2022 but then they will owe him more.........a total of $12.05M or $12.3M guaranteed because he's got $250K each in roster and workout bonuses that will have accrued during that time.

 

They are totally f*cked on the Star deal........it's a sunk cost even if he shows up for the offseason workouts at 250 pounds(I guess the rumor is he lost a lot of weight).

 

 

 

That rumor has not been substantiated. That I've seen anyways. If it has, I'd love to update my knowledge of the situation, so if you can link to a reliable source, please do.

 

And we're not screwed on that. We've got Star to play at the very least for this year, which is what they wanted when they signed the contract. And last year showed we needed him.

 

If he (or any player) shows up not ready to play then it's worth worrying about. Till then a guy we wanted to come back is coming back.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Ummmm ok not sure when I was running him out of town, but they structured his deal last year to have an easier out this year. 

 

 

That's one way to spin it. You can just as easily say that they structured a deal to keep him around the final three years of his contract fairly cheap now that the signing bonus is paid, with the ability to cut him easily if he regresses. 

 

Plenty of guys on this roster are in the same situation, easy to cut if they regress. Jerry Hughes, for example. Cole Beasley. Matakevich. John Brown. Poyer. There are a bunch more. Several of them will get cut. Several won't. It's how you want to try to structure guys who are getting older, ideally. If their play drops off, or if things fall right, you let 'em go. Doesn't mean that's what they want, though.

 

If he hadn't opted out, they could have cut him this year, but it wouldn't have helped their cap much. They'd only have saved around $1.4M. After the opt-out that's what they'll save if they cut him before the 2022 season.

[NewEra]

38 minutes ago, Virgil said:

You bring up a valid point that I’ve thought about with the shrinking cap and Milano.  
 

Will guys be willing to take deals that spread the money out strangely to help the team.  Also, do any of these guys realize how close we are and want to be a part of it.  
 

I firmly believe we want all of our guys back and it’s just a financial thing.  We aren’t going to lowball Milano because we don’t think he’s worth it.  It’s our reality.  
 

I wonder if that understanding will be taken into consideration by the players. 

I think it will, to a point.  Asking a guy to take 1-2 mill less a year can be feasible depending on the player/players bank account/love for being in this team.  Taking more than that can be more difficult.  
 

In milanos case, I think the difference in money will be a lot.  I think he’s gonna get significantly more on the market than what Beane will be willing to pay him.  

[Thurman#1]

40 minutes ago, Virgil said:

You bring up a valid point that I’ve thought about with the shrinking cap and Milano.  
 

Will guys be willing to take deals that spread the money out strangely to help the team.  Also, do any of these guys realize how close we are and want to be a part of it.  
 

I firmly believe we want all of our guys back and it’s just a financial thing.  We aren’t going to lowball Milano because we don’t think he’s worth it.  It’s our reality.  
 

I wonder if that understanding will be taken into consideration by the players. 

 

 

Beane hasn't showed that he's one of those GMs who wants to re-structure a lot of guys and kick a lot of cans down the road. He wants to be in decent cap shape every year. I suspect he'll write a deal or two or three this year but won't max out everything he could do with re-structures, as some armchair GMs here would like him to. He wants to be solid next year on the cap too.

 

I love that, personally. They said their goal is to be consistently competitive, and if that's your goal, this is smart.

 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

BTW, Is the opt out in play for another season? 
 

Have we heard any hints from Star himself on his plans for this season?

 

The reason I ask is a week or so ago I Saw a report on Good Morning Football that the Pats were definitively getting a host of players back from opt out last season.. 

[TPS]

2 hours ago, costrovs said:

 

Idk, i just don't see it. Cutting a very good center just to save $4.8M? That seems like a really stupid move TBH.

 

Spotrac along with overthecap cover all sports, they just punched in some numbers and came up with 60M savings. Not realizing that some of it makes 0 sense, and just isn't going to happen. Although the savings would be nice.

 

Restructure Diggs? like @BillsFanForever19 said, I do remember hearing about something earlier in the year with his contract.

Restructure White? C'mon! He just signed his contract in September. Him, his Attorney, the Bills FO all knew about the potentially lower salary cap this year. So any type of savings that we'd get, is already factored in.

 

Cut John Brown? This one makes the most sense to me. Doable, and we have his replacement in GD.

Cut Butler, Jefferson, Addison? Go right ahead, they're all replaceable with similar if not better players.

Cut Morse? Stupid idea. top 10 center, only to save $4.8M.

 

This isn't a stab at you, or the OP. It's more of a stab at Spotrac. 'Let's publish this list because it'll save the Bills $60M'

No disagreement. It shows potentially what the Bills could do to open up cap space, but doesn't mean they will. 

 

[IgotBILLStopay]

51 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Centers at $7M really do grow on trees.

 

Only 12 centers are on contracts for more than $11M average per year, and one of those 12 is Mitch Morse, who averages $11, though.

 

And it's hard to get much for a guy most other teams think you're likely to cut anyway. Especially this year. IMO you're over-estimating his value. Of course if they decide to cut him they'll look to trade him instead. I think we'll see they won't get what you believe.

C’mon man - how do your stats negate my point? Bills have already paid Morse over 28 mill the past two years. This year his salary is 7 mill of which 2 mill is guaranteed. 
 

Showing that 12 centers make more than 11 mill a year only makes it more obvious that the remainder left on Morse for this year at 7 mill is very reasonable, no?

 

the key point is that though Morse will make 35 mill in his first 3 years of the deal - the Bills have already paid out 28 mill with what is left being cheap for a starting center.

 

[BuffaloRebound]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Centers at $7M really do grow on trees.

 

Only 12 centers are on contracts for more than $11M average per year, and one of those 12 is Mitch Morse, who averages $11, though.

 

And it's hard to get much for a guy most other teams think you're likely to cut anyway. Especially this year. IMO you're over-estimating his value. Of course if they decide to cut him they'll look to trade him instead. I think we'll see they won't get what you believe.

Where do you see 11 centers making more than $11m per year?  I see 4 on spotrac.  Morse is 5th highest paid.  It sucks but the reality is his concussion issues make it really hard to justify him being the 5th highest paid Center when you can’t rely on him being on the field.  I think he either takes a pay cut or gets released.  

[HalftimeAdjustment]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

They are totally f*cked on the Star deal........it's a sunk cost even if he shows up for the offseason workouts at 250 pounds(I guess the rumor is he lost a lot of weight).

 

 

If he comes in at 250, try him at LB.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Where do you see 11 centers making more than $11m per year?  I see 4 on spotrac.  Morse is 5th highest paid.  It sucks but the reality is his concussion issues make it really hard to justify him being the 5th highest paid Center when you can’t rely on him being on the field.  I think he either takes a pay cut or gets released.  

 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/center/

 

Yes, I agree that he likely either takes a pay cut or gets released.

 

More, I said that

 

 

1 hour ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

C’mon man - how do your stats negate my point? Bills have already paid Morse over 28 mill the past two years. This year his salary is 7 mill of which 2 mill is guaranteed. 
 

Showing that 12 centers make more than 11 mill a year only makes it more obvious that the remainder left on Morse for this year at 7 mill is very reasonable, no?

 

the key point is that though Morse will make 35 mill in his first 3 years of the deal - the Bills have already paid out 28 mill with what is left being cheap for a starting center.

 

 

 

I disagreed with two things in your post. First you said he would bring a 3rd or 4th in a trade. That seems very unlikely to me.

 

You seemed to me to be saying that he would be easy to trade, partly because of his salary. Again, I just don't think this is so.

 

If you are actually saying that he'd be easy for the Bills to keep (???), I think the problem is that for them $5 mill is a lot to pay this year if they can find a way to pay less, and that Morse doesn't seem to fit the profile of the new line they seem to be building. When we did a lot of pulling, Morse fit that strategy really well. But last year they pulled much less and went towards a power scheme. Morse doesn't fit that profile well.

 

And as for whether I negated your point ... go back and look at that post again. What exactly was your main point? I don't think that you had any clear main point there, myself, so I addressed the specifics of what you said.

 

EDIT: There are now two people who seem to have responded mostly to your trade thoughts.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Thurman#1

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Why release Morse? He will easily fetch a 4th or even a 3rd in the trade market. Centers at 7mill per year dont grow on trees even in the shrinking cap 2021 situation.

Morse is due $7.6M in cash this season.  That’s the cap hit a team that traded for him would take on.  That would put him 10th for centers this season.  (His cap hit to us would be $10.3M which puts him 4th.)

 

Teams - including the Bills - have to be concerned about his concussions.  I just don’t see a lot of teams rushing to trade anything for a guy that they have to pay well and who carries an elevated risk of not actually solving their problem at center.  I don’t go down that road if I’m a GM unless I don’t have other good options. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That rumor has not been substantiated. That I've seen anyways. If it has, I'd love to update my knowledge of the situation, so if you can link to a reliable source, please do.

 

And we're not screwed on that. We've got Star to play at the very least for this year, which is what they wanted when they signed the contract. And last year showed we needed him.

 

If he (or any player) shows up not ready to play then it's worth worrying about. Till then a guy we wanted to come back is coming back.

 

 

No,  the way the contract was set up........including the pay cut.........it was pretty obvious that they didn't see him in the plans for 2021.

 

They didn't miss Star in 2020.    Defensively,  what they really missed was the incredibly easy 2019 schedule.   They also lost 3 effective pass rushers(2019 Alexander, Phillips, Shaq) and Edmunds and Milano were injured for much of the season.   

 

Star is an easy excuse but the truth is they held 2,000 yard rusher Derrick Henry to his lowest production of the year and shut down the near historic Ravens run game in the playoffs.       Lotulelei at his best was JAG.........at his worst he was bad.    

 

This is one of those things that a % of people like you fight me on that will be accepted as entirely obvious that I was right a year from now.

 

[Special K]

9 hours ago, thurst44 said:

Not sure of a restructure, but cutting him would cost more, and given how our D played in two seasons with him and this last season without him, I'd much rather they see if he returns and Oliver and Edmunds get a chance to make more plays. 

 

9 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I think they redid his deal last offseason expecting he could be cut this offseason. However the opt out kinda screwed the pooch on that idea. 

 

8 hours ago, whatdrought said:

it’s something crazy like 11m if we cut him vs the 7m he’s owed if on the team.
 

A restructure just pushes that money down the road and I’m not sure that’s beneficial.

 

Thanks for the responses....I guess the best the Bills can hope for is that he comes back ready to play after missing the season...the run-D did take a hit this year without him.

[purple haze]

10 hours ago, costrovs said:

Power Run scheme or not, it doesn't help when both Moss and Singletary suck. lol

They don’t.  But their offensive line did when it came to run blocking consistently.