Eagles submit rules change to onside kick

[Cheektowaga Chad]

If its only 4th and 15 you need to put a cap on the amount of times a team can use it in a game

 

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I’m a big fan of this rule. While winning the game in the final minute shouldn’t be likely, it also should be impossible. Id also argue there’s far more luck than skill involved in the current onside kick format. Changing it to 4th and 15 shifts the needle closer to skill. 

But the reason of the rule would be to make it less impossible than an onside kick, not more. 4th and 25 and you might as well keep the current format. They didn’t arbitrarily pull the 15 yards out of thin air. It has very similar conversion percentages of the old onside kick I believe. 

I maintain my stance that 15 yards is too easy.  Start it off at 25 and see how it goes.  If no one attempts it and success is nil, than lower it 5 yards.  15 is too easy and changes the game drastically imo

[BillsShredder83]

I haaaate this! Glad the general consensus is the same here

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

A contrarian thought: the onside kick is available throughout the game, not just at the end. Remember the Saints fooling Indy in the Super Bowl? Teams just don’t use it because it’s risky. What if the 4th and 15 rule is adopted and a good team (like the Bills) scores early and then uses this to really put pressure on an opponent? Sounds interesting. 

They have minimized it because it causes more injuries than any other play in the league.

[without a drought]

I say sure, why not, except they should start on their own 10.

 

While we're at it they should change FGs to

 

1 point for FGs 33 yards and under, same as an extra point.

2 points for FGs 34 -44 yards

3 points for FGs 45 -55 yards

4 points for FGs 56+ yards

 

And all TDs over 50 yards are worth 7 points

 

After a TD you can go for the extra point, 2 point conversion or the 3 point conversion from the 15

 

And last but not least, safeties are now worth 3 points

[Beerball]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What about street basketball rules? Make it take it.

 

How about if your score a TD and 2 point conversion you keep ball. At least that would be exciting. No game would be over. Lol. 

That sounds good, but is it really? Do you want a game of chance (that's where this is going) or a game of skill?

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If anything go back to the old rules for onside kick. 

 

 

In terms of likelihood of a game turnaround and being better in synch with the spirit of the game, this would be best.

 

Don't see it happening, though. They'd have legit safety concerns.

[Nextmanup]

9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I just don't like this rule. How about a 100 yard dash. Get your fastest guy up. Winner gets the ball on their own 20.

 

 

Skills contests to help decide team sports are a bad idea.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, NewEra said:

Awful rule.  If they were to give the option of an offensive play, I feel it should be 4th and 25 at least, if not more.

 

 

The whole reason people hate the new onside kick rule is that it nearly eliminates suspense. They are converted so very infrequently that fans don't worry if the other team is trying one.

 

Apparently the new conversion rate is slightly less than 10%.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/risky-business/2020/risky-business-week-12-onside-kicks

 

... whereas rates under the old rules were closer to 13%. That's the sweet spot, IMO.

Kicking teams historically recovered onside kicks between 15% and 20% of the time in a given season. In 2018, in part to changes on the kickoff play, that number dropped below 10%.
 

https://operations.nfl.com/gameday/analytics/stats-articles/why-fourth-and-15-from-the-25-insight-into-the-nfl-s-experiment-with-an-onside-kick-alternative/

 

And I think 4th and 25 would probably have a conversion rate even lower than the new onside kick rule that people find unsatisfactory because conversions are so infrequent nobody worries about them.

 

I do think maybe you're right that 4th and 15 might be a bit easy. 4th and 17, maybe? 18? Something along those lines might be better, IMO. A fifteen yard penalty would result in a conversion, and that's probably not a good idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Thurman#1

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The whole reason people hate the new onside kick rule is that it nearly eliminates suspense. They are converted so very infrequently that fans don't worry if the other team is trying one.

 

Apparently the new conversion rate is slightly less than 10%.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/risky-business/2020/risky-business-week-12-onside-kicks

 

... whereas rates under the old rules were closer to 13%. That's the sweet spot, IMO.

Kicking teams historically recovered onside kicks between 15% and 20% of the time in a given season. In 2018, in part to changes on the kickoff play, that number dropped below 10%.
 

https://operations.nfl.com/gameday/analytics/stats-articles/why-fourth-and-15-from-the-25-insight-into-the-nfl-s-experiment-with-an-onside-kick-alternative/

 

And I think 4th and 25 would probably have a conversion rate even lower than the new onside kick rule that people find unsatisfactory because conversions are so infrequent nobody worries about them.

 

I do think maybe you're right that 4th and 15 might be a bit easy. 4th and 17, maybe? 18? Something along those lines might be better, IMO. A fifteen yard penalty would result in a conversion, and that's probably not a good idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, maybe 4th and 25 is a stretch.  Maybe start at 20 and see how it goes?  I’d be worried that the best offenses would be trying it every kickoff. If they could  convert 30%.  
 

From my eye, it seemed like we were pretty successful on 3rd and longs last year, so the change would probably benefit us.  Although it seemed we were pretty terrible at stopping 3rd and long for a stretch in 2020.  

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

10 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Rock paper scissors?  I will leave out lizard and Spock since the zebras would #*¥! that up.

What the fweak is that?

 

All Hail Sam Cass!
 

Hail Sam Cass!

 

Sorry Ridge, that is one of my funnier scenes from the Big Bang.  Couldn’t help myself.

 

As far as the idea, it’s stupid (IMO).  Even if on sides mostly fail, it’s one of the fun things about the game.  Talk about the brass Sean Payton had doing that in the SB against the Colts.  How boring is 4th and 15?
 

There are a bunch of dumb rules changes proposed every year and most are shot down.  I seriously doubt this one makes it.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

How about this idea. I think it's perfect. 

 

There are 2 options for 2 point conversion. Attempt from the 2, if you make it then kickoff as normal where you can attempt an onside kick. 

 

The 2nd option would be an attempt from 15. If you convert the attempt from the 15 you get the ball back on your own 25 yard line. 

 

Its perfect.

[Draconator]

[TBBills]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Would be great for Bills even though our kicker can also execute an onside kick 

No thanks this could come back to kick us in the ass.

[CSBill]

14 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

And just think about how often teams will get the benefit of a bs pass interference call as well.  

 

That, may be the best argument against it.

[DCOrange]

This proposal is an easy yes from me just like it's been every other time it's been proposed.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

And just think about how often teams will get the benefit of a bs pass interference call as well.  

Good lord.  With the inevitable reviews, the game becomes like the last two minutes of a close game in collegiate basketball.  Geologic ages pass. 😴

[Saxum]

17 hours ago, Logic said:

I’m fine with 4th and 20.

 

NFL passing offenses are too good these days for 4th and 15 to be difficult enough.

 

And Zebras are too lenient on some teams and not others.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Doc]

If safety is the concern with the old rules, just keep the onside kick the way it is now.  There's no rule that says you have to have a certain percentage chance of recovering it.  Do a better job during the first 58 or so minutes of a game.