Nextmanup Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 Remember when Chris Simms was just a garbage QB trying to make it in the NFL? Since when are we supposed to care about what he says, one way or the other?
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Gugny said: And there is not a smart reader who would interpret my comments this way. Uh, you purposely did a terrible stat comparison. Just now, Nextmanup said: Remember when Chris Simms was just a garbage QB trying to make it in the NFL? Since when are we supposed to care about what he says, one way or the other? I mean he zinged when everyone zanged on Allen. But he has been terrible about a lot of his other predictions
mannc Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean he zinged when everyone zanged on Allen. But he has been terrible about a lot of his other predictions Like which ones?
Mat68 Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 On 3/5/2021 at 5:43 AM, Thurman#1 said: Fair enough that you disagree. You're claiming the freedom to communicate unclearly, and nobody can take that away from you. To communicate clearly and well should - I personally believe - be the goal in any public communication. Message board or not. If someone wants to be understood correctly, he should speak clearly. But some people have other priorities, and that's their prerogative. And no, you don't have to say "I believe" or "in my opinion" before every opinion, to be clear. I pointed out four easy alternatives and there are surely hundreds if not tens of thousands of ways to point out you're expressing an opinion. But if you don't mind being misunderstood easily and often, who am I to challenge your priorities? Hell, I'm just a guy on the internet. On the other hand, I have the right to say something along the lines of "What you have there is an opinion, it is certainly not a fact," if you state an opinion as a fact. I'm not a mind-reader, just a text-reader. Even if your intention is to give your opinion, if I can't understand that from the writing, I'm gonna react to what you wrote, just as I do for everyone. I just do my best to understand the words on the page or the screen, myself. I think that's what most people do, they assume what someone wrote is what they meant. I don't think of myself as bright enough to elicit unexpressed meaning from text. Worth pointing out, though, that Simms spends a great deal of time and care pointing out that what he says is opinion. 01:30 "Zach Wilson is clearly the number one quarterback in the draft for me." 04:00 "To me, he is the clear-cut number one quarterback in this draft. I love Trevor Lawrence, there's a lot I like. But I think Zack Wilson and him, there's a separation there, for my money and what I see and what I've evaluated." He even prefaces the whole thing with a similar statement, "What I'm evaluating here is what I see on the field. Yeah, I hear rumors and all that kind of stuff, OK? But all I can do is see what I see on the field and use my knowledge that way, and that's really what my rankings are all about." That was only the first four minutes. He goes on like that constantly, in pretty much every podcast. Why? I think it's because through long experience he's found out that, people misunderstand him. They hear it as, "I know this, 'cause I'm just that smart." He's been faced with that misunderstanding often enough that he knows if he wants to be correctly understood he's got to say this. He is also putting his name on. He is right, most of the people who talk about the draft go off hearsay. Group think sort of speak. He over uses Me and I because he doesnt believe many people actually come to their own conclusions. Goes back to his early Bleacher report days. He firmly believes most people on TV talk about teams and players without actually ever watching them or the games during the season. As a Bills fan is obvious that he is right. I enjoy his opinions on players and games because he rarely talks about it without putting the effort into first.
Thurman#1 Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 On 3/4/2021 at 5:43 AM, Gugny said: I'm not saying Fromm is better than Fields. I'm saying this is like an EJ vs. Tyrod comparison? Was Tyrod better than EJ? Yes. Does that mean Tyrod was very good? Nope. Nothing I've seen, nor heard about, Fields tells me that he's a sure thing at the next level. Therefore, I don't know why any team would pick him in the first round. If teams only drafted sure things in the first round they'd probably have drafted three or four guys there over the last twenty years. Manning, Luck, one or two others. A sure thing is NOT the benchmark you look for at any position in the first round, much less QB, a position where you often have to just swallow and take the best chance you have. This year and last year it has been possible to get guys in FA or trades with a real chance to be really good. Historically that has really been true only very rarely. The teams that get shut out there will maximize their chances to get a franchise QB by grabbing one of the top four or five or six guys in this draft. Those guys will go in the first because without a franchise guy your team will be scrabbling for table scraps in the wins column for years. 1
Thurman#1 Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) On 3/5/2021 at 8:02 PM, GunnerBill said: You don't have to be a mind reader. You just have to use basic logic. Opinion on NFL draft prospects can never, by definition, be facts. They should always be read as opinions. I did not state an opinion as fact. Well, yeah, opinion can never be fact. I got that. But what a given person thinks is a fact and an opinion is not even close to that clear, Bill. I mean, come on. When something is stated as a fact, you really do have to be kind of a mind reader to be sure you understand when the guy is only giving his opinion. Maybe you're terrific at that. Maybe you never misunderstand. If so, more power to you, but I apparently have problems. I thought you were stating the opinion above as a fact. And I can promise you there are plenty more like me out there. Again, that's pretty clearly why Simms, a guy giving draft opinions as you are, does so much of this. He's found that there are an awful lot of people like me out there. Again, it's your communication, so do what you want. But I will also do what I want in my communication. Including pointing out that something you said that was stated as a fact is actually an opinion. That won't be separating you out, either. It's something I'm concerned with and do pretty often here, and really I do it generally. I find this to be a cause of a ton of modern problems. You can't turn on a TV talk show without somebody shouting an opinion as if it's a fact. It's what modern public discourse is becoming and I believe it has a lot of awful consequences. Edited March 8, 2021 by Thurman#1 1
Thurman#1 Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Mat68 said: He is also putting his name on. He is right, most of the people who talk about the draft go off hearsay. Group think sort of speak. He over uses Me and I because he doesnt believe many people actually come to their own conclusions. Goes back to his early Bleacher report days. He firmly believes most people on TV talk about teams and players without actually ever watching them or the games during the season. As a Bills fan is obvious that he is right. I enjoy his opinions on players and games because he rarely talks about it without putting the effort into first. Oh, I really like Simms as well. He's bright, interesting, knowledgeable and a good listen. And you're right that he often mentions and talks about groupthink and that most people make up their minds based on it. Which seems to me to be correct. But he also makes it very clear very often that he makes mistakes, that he knows what he has are opinions and not facts. He often says that sometimes he's wrong, that he's not saying he knows he's right, that this is his opinion but what he can say about it is that it's backed up with a lot of hard work watching these guys and a lot of knowledge about what it takes to be a great QB in the NFL. Though he also often says he's very aware that he was not a really talented QB. But his obsession with studying QB play has made him a well-informed evaluator.
GunnerBill Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Including pointing out that something you said that was stated as a fact is actually an opinion. Come on Thurman making a statement about a draft prospect being better than another is prima face opinion.
metbill Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: there is not a smart Georgia fan who would have rather had Fromm than Fields as a quarterback. Not saying they are smart, but the entire UGA coaching staff liked Fromm over Fields as he transferred to OSU due to his inability to unseat Fromm as the starter.
Doc Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Oh, I really like Simms as well. He's bright, interesting, knowledgeable and a good listen. And you're right that he often mentions and talks about groupthink and that most people make up their minds based on it. Which seems to me to be correct. But he also makes it very clear very often that he makes mistakes, that he knows what he has are opinions and not facts. He often says that sometimes he's wrong, that he's not saying he knows he's right, that this is his opinion but what he can say about it is that it's backed up with a lot of hard work watching these guys and a lot of knowledge about what it takes to be a great QB in the NFL. Though he also often says he's very aware that he was not a really talented QB. But his obsession with studying QB play has made him a well-informed evaluator. Interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a failed NFL QB admit that.
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