GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: On the other hand, I have the right to say something along the lines of "What you have there is an opinion, it is certainly not a fact," if you state an opinion as a fact. I'm not a mind-reader, just a text-reader. You don't have to be a mind reader. You just have to use basic logic. Opinion on NFL draft prospects can never, by definition, be facts. They should always be read as opinions. I did not state an opinion as fact. 1
H2o Posted March 5, 2021 Author Posted March 5, 2021 Ok, I went and watched some games of Zach Wilson to really dig into what Simms was saying. I watched him against Boise St., against Coastal Carolina, against Western Kentucky, and against Louisiana Tech (all the BYU offensive possessions). I remember hearing a knock on Wilson is that he was like Manziel, minus the party boy lifestyle. That he's basically out there just winging it on the field. In some instances when plays break down, maybe. But he looks like he's out there actually processing what the defense is doing, not just relying on his athleticism like JM. I watched him hang a ball 60 yards in the air with pinpoint accuracy, even though his WR slowed up causing it to be incomplete. He throws from different arm angles. He looks off defenders. He uses that little shoulder pump fake like Josh does. He puts the ball in the perfect place for his receivers almost every time. The only time he's really missing his guy is when he throws off his back foot fading away or sometimes on the run. He stands in the pocket keeping a good base most of the time as well when protection allows. He definitely needs to add about 10lbs to his frame for the NFL, but that shouldn't be a problem. In summary I still don't know if I would take him over Lawrence, but this kid does look like he's gonna be special. He does have a Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers type feel to his game. I am now hoping and praying both the Jets and Dolphins are stupid enough to pass on him because I don't want him in the AFC East for the next 15 years. This kid is gonna be good. 2
metbill Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 I would love for the Jets to draft Wilson at #2. That means they don't trade for draft capital and bring Wilson on to the current Jets team, 100% guaranteed disaster! The Jets trading the pick to build high end talent scares me more than any little string bean QB. Unless Wilson hits the roids for a few cycles, he will be beaten into an early retirement, if he is even NFL caliber, especially behind that Jets Oline as it looks now.
mannc Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 3 hours ago, H2o said: Ok, I went and watched some games of Zach Wilson to really dig into what Simms was saying. I watched him against Boise St., against Coastal Carolina, against Western Kentucky, and against Louisiana Tech (all the BYU offensive possessions). I remember hearing a knock on Wilson is that he was like Manziel, minus the party boy lifestyle. That he's basically out there just winging it on the field. In some instances when plays break down, maybe. But he looks like he's out there actually processing what the defense is doing, not just relying on his athleticism like JM. I watched him hang a ball 60 yards in the air with pinpoint accuracy, even though his WR slowed up causing it to be incomplete. He throws from different arm angles. He looks off defenders. He uses that little shoulder pump fake like Josh does. He puts the ball in the perfect place for his receivers almost every time. The only time he's really missing his guy is when he throws off his back foot fading away or sometimes on the run. He stands in the pocket keeping a good base most of the time as well when protection allows. He definitely needs to add about 10lbs to his frame for the NFL, but that shouldn't be a problem. In summary I still don't know if I would take him over Lawrence, but this kid does look like he's gonna be special. He does have a Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers type feel to his game. I am now hoping and praying both the Jets and Dolphins are stupid enough to pass on him because I don't want him in the AFC East for the next 15 years. This kid is gonna be good. I listened to the entire podcast this morning. Simms says he’s got Wilson ranked ahead of where he had Burrow and Herbert last year, and he’s got Lawrence ranked behind both of them. He also says no way in hell Jacksonville takes anyone other than Trevor Lawrence. It will be very interesting to see what the Jets do.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 1 - Simms is a genius who truly knows good qbs and should be employed by a nfl front office or 2 - he takes the unpopular opinion on purpose so if he is right, he looks way smarter than everyone else. 10 minutes ago, mannc said: I listened to the entire podcast this morning. Simms says he’s got Wilson ranked ahead of where he had Burrow and Herbert last year, and he’s got Lawrence ranked behind both of them. He also says no way in hell Jacksonville takes anyone other than Trevor Lawrence. It will be very interesting to see what the Jets do. I guess it depends on what they think about 2022 QB crop. I didn’t love Darnold but his situation on the Jets has been a joke. If they like next years qbs, they should trade down, load up on picks, and continue building their roster. They evaluate Darnold for another year snd he fails, draft a new guy who will step into a much better situation. It’s not a coincidence that the same bad franchises struggle to find qbs. I don’t think Wilson is some elite qb who can just elevate a bad nfl team.
mannc Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 49 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: 1 - Simms is a genius who truly knows good qbs and should be employed by a nfl front office or 2 - he takes the unpopular opinion on purpose so if he is right, he looks way smarter than everyone else. As documented upthread, Simms has a very good track record when it comes to analyzing college QBs for the draft; I don't know that anyone has said he's a genius, though. And if you listen to the podcast, he actually says his goal is to become a GM someday, and therefore he doesn't make these evaluations for clickbait purposes. 1
H2o Posted March 5, 2021 Author Posted March 5, 2021 1 hour ago, mannc said: I listened to the entire podcast this morning. Simms says he’s got Wilson ranked ahead of where he had Burrow and Herbert last year, and he’s got Lawrence ranked behind both of them. He also says no way in hell Jacksonville takes anyone other than Trevor Lawrence. It will be very interesting to see what the Jets do. I wouldn't rank him higher than Burrow either, but I do believe he is going to be good. Burrow was probably the most accurate deep ball passer I've ever seen.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 37 minutes ago, mannc said: As documented upthread, Simms has a very good track record when it comes to analyzing college QBs for the draft; I don't know that anyone has said he's a genius, though. And if you listen to the podcast, he actually says his goal is to become a GM someday, and therefore he doesn't make these evaluations for clickbait purposes. Do you have more links to his evaluations besides the Allen draft? Because his Tayson Hill one screams clickbait. 1 minute ago, H2o said: I wouldn't rank him higher than Burrow either, but I do believe he is going to be good. Burrow was probably the most accurate deep ball passer I've ever seen. It’s so hard to tell though with these guys in absolutely loaded offenses. He had Jefferson and Chase with CHE in the backfield. I like Burrow but who won’t look in college in that situation?
PrimeTime101 Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 Simms got a lot of visits and replies on this topic Simms likes getting attention 1
GunnerBill Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 Simms doesn't do it for clicks. But just because he has a good track record doesn't mean he is always right. Even within his "good" record there have been a few misses. He really liked Drew Lock for example. I think he is a bit too high on Wilson and too low on Lawrence. I think it likely doesn't matter, because I think both will be good. I actually like all the top 4 guys this year to some extent. If I was a QB needy team in the top 10 I wouldn't have any problem taking any of them. I think there are certain guys who fit certain schemes better than others but they are four pretty legit prospects in my view.
MrSarcasm Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 Honestly I'm not exactly blow away by Trevor Lawrence. I feel like he is going to be a mid tier QB when all is said and done. I think Derick Carr when I see him . People always forget that Clemson is/was the best or second best school in the country- meaning Trevor Lawrence had the best or second best talent around him. Lots of talent around a player can hide their defects, just ask Alabama RBs not named Derrick Henry.
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 Wilson is a monster and unfortunately the Jets are going to get him. I agree w/ Simms
YoloinOhio Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 On 3/3/2021 at 3:13 PM, GunnerBill said: I think a fair criticism is that there is not a lot of development from year 1 to year 2 and year 3 at Clemson. But he was so good year 1 anyway. He didn't play well in the playoffs in 2019 but he did play well against Ohio State this year and against ND in the conference championship. Lawrence wasn't the reason Clemson lost. Justin Fields was. Lawrence and Fields are both elite Qb talents and athletes who have not yet reached their ceilings. They are young and still developing. Their NFL traits are very clear. Both have the work ethic, leadership and intelligence to succeed in the NFL. I don’t know much about Wilson or lance but I think teams are overthinking it if those guys don’t go 1-2.
YoloinOhio Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 On 3/3/2021 at 3:36 PM, Gugny said: Fields had one ridiculous (fluke?) season bookended by two abbreviated okay seasons. Fromm had 3 consistently decent/complete seasons. They are just completely different QBs and athletes. I’m not sure comparing their stats are relevant when projecting to the nfl. Fields has elite talent. He has a lot less reps. He’s a bit of a project, with huge upside. But there is a reason that Fromm went in the 5th round.
Gugny Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 45 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: They are just completely different QBs and athletes. I’m not sure comparing their stats are relevant when projecting to the nfl. Fields has elite talent. He has a lot less reps. He’s a bit of a project, with huge upside. But there is a reason that Fromm went in the 5th round. Fromm played in 9 more games than Fields did, with 3000 more yards and 15 more TDs than Fields. 1
Buffalo716 Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, MrSarcasm said: Honestly I'm not exactly blow away by Trevor Lawrence. I feel like he is going to be a mid tier QB when all is said and done. I think Derick Carr when I see him . People always forget that Clemson is/was the best or second best school in the country- meaning Trevor Lawrence had the best or second best talent around him. Lots of talent around a player can hide their defects, just ask Alabama RBs not named Derrick Henry. It's not always just as cut and dry as that And Derek carr and Trevor Lawrence are absolutely nothing alike One is an average sized NFL quarterback with above average traits.. lawrence is 6'6 , can move like Josh Allen, and was making throws as a true freshman that some quarterbacks in the NFL can't even make Again I think the hype on Lawrence made it so he can never live up to it.. but he had the greatest true freshman season by a quarterback in the history of college football Just say that sentence again and soak it in. In over 100 years he had the greatest true freshman season ever for quarterback Everybody else is playing catch up to him as a prospect right now. And it's because he's been that far ahead of everybody since he was 15 Yea he had a good wideout room, but he still wasn't working with six NFL quality WRs .. he's going to look even better with a core of professionals Edited March 7, 2021 by Buffalo716 1
turftoe Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 On 3/5/2021 at 9:48 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: 1 - Simms is a genius who truly knows good qbs and should be employed by a nfl front office or 2 - he takes the unpopular opinion on purpose so if he is right, he looks way smarter than everyone else. Or maybe he parots what his dad says about the QBs. His coming out and saying he wants to be a GM is funny to me. I don't think he is some talent guru, seeing things that nobody else does. Wilson has talent, no doubt. Can he stay healthy as a smaller QB? I think that is the bigger question.
auburnbillsbacker Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 No one really knows but I think it's possible.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 11 hours ago, Gugny said: Fromm played in 9 more games than Fields did, with 3000 more yards and 15 more TDs than Fields. Haha, what a bunch of BS. You are counting the 12 games fields played as freshman where he threw 39 passes the entire year??? 😆 there is not a smart Georgia fan who would have rather had Fromm than Fields as a quarterback.
Gugny Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: there is not a smart Georgia fan who would have rather had Fromm than Fields as a quarterback. And there is not a smart reader who would interpret my comments this way.
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