mannc Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 3 hours ago, ProcessTruster said: yeah, Simms is a straight shooter; doesn't really seem to be one of those to say things to just stir up views and clicks. I've never seen Wilson play so there's that, so there will be a bias towards Lawrence bc of his exposure, but Josh had no exposure and he turned out better than all in his draft class. Think about it...how often does the first QB taken actually turn out to be the best in his draft class? It’s rare.
DCOrange Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Looked up his pre draft rankings from 2018 on. Not too shabby so far. He went along with the consensus number one in 2019 and 2020 so I can't say he's putting Wilson in front of Lawrence just for attention. Still continuing hope that the Jets will screw the pooch and keep Darnold. 2018 Lamar Jackson Josh Allen Baker Mayfield Sam Darnold Josh Rosen 2019 Kyler Murray Drew Lock Dwayne Haskins Ryan Finley Jarrett Stidham Daniel Jones Clayton Thorson Will Grier 2020 Joe Burrow Justin Herbert Jordan Love Tua Tagovailoa Chris Simms actually ended up ranking the 2018 class as follows: Josh Allen Josh Rosen Baker Mayfield Lamar Jackson Sam Darnold The clip of him ranking Lamar and Allen at the top was an older take before he changed it all at the last minute. 1
machine gun kelly Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 Someone brought up earlier about retro grading teams drafts. I love that series on NFLR, as it’s usually a Blitz (the show) topic where they grade the draft from four years ago. They rate on an A,B,C,D etc. draft. It’s a very interesting series, and the primary guy was Mark Dominic, the old GM from Tampa. He’s a very interesting guy with Bruce, the main host. Needless to say our drafts prior to McBeane on a four years later have not been the best, but they were fair. They consider, who’s still on the NFL whether starting or a role player, regardless if they are still on the team that drafted the player. It’s part of their off season series each show does to basically fill down time. You may not always agree with the hosts, but they make several good points trying to quantify a draft. This year should be fun as it’s the 2017 draft, but I know I think it’s Late Hits does something like this, but would be the 2018 draft. Its interesting to see, because for example we don’t still have Wyatt Teller, but he starts for the Browns and was a 2018 draft guy. To me that’s fair given they are a national show, not biased by a local market like WGR. Anyway, you Sirius guys have a listen when they do it. If memory serves, it’s usually done after the draft. By then FA is over, the draft is over, coaching hires are over, and even the UDFA market is over. They can then focus on this kind of topic.
Thurman#1 Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Lawrence is the best QB in the class. Come on, Bill. That's an opinion, too. A less controversial one than his, certainly. Could easily turn out to be absolutely correct down the line. But it's not a fact. We'll find out who the best QB in the class is a few years down the line. Right now we can't even agree on who was the best college QB. I have great respect for your opinions, but that is what this is. Edited March 4, 2021 by Thurman#1
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, Thurman#1 said: Come on, Bill. That's an opinion, too. A less controversial one than his, certainly. Could easily turn out to be absolutely correct down the line. But it's not a fact. We'll find out who the best QB in the class is a few years down the line. Right now we can't even agree on who was the best college QB. Of course it's an opinion. What suggested it wasn't?
Orlando Buffalo Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 I watched both QBs twice this year and I was more impressed with Zach during those two games, but I would not be surprised if these are the two gems of this draft and they are both pro bowlers for years to come.
Thurman#1 Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Of course it's an opinion. What suggested it wasn't? Your words. "_________ is ___________," is not grammatically how you present an opinion. It's how you present a fact or something you believe is a fact. "I've got _______________ as _____________." or "_______________ looks like ________________." or "I believe __________ is _____________." or "Doesn't seem that way to me." Those, and a thousand alternatives and a million variations are ways to present an opinion. You know all this. You find Simms using this kind of language constantly. Edited March 4, 2021 by Thurman#1
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Your words. "_________ is ___________," is not grammatically how you present an opinion. It's how you present a fact or something you believe is a fact. "I've got _______________ as _____________." or "_______________ looks like ________________." or "I believe __________ is _____________." or "Doesn't seem that way to me." Those, and a thousand alternatives and a million variations are ways to present an opinion. You know all this. You find Simms using this kind of language constantly. I disagree actually. I think when I post something on a message board it should be pretty implicit that it is my opinion. I don't think I should have to say "I believe" before everything I say to distinguish it as opinion. It is self evidently opinion to say player X is better than player Y etc. Indeed, on the contrary... on a message board such as this I think you should make it explicit when what you are doing is giving factual information. Like when I say "I know, for a fact, that Doug Whaley wanted to hire Hue Jackson in 2015 and was overruled." I don't do that very often. I occasionally will clarify things relating to the CBA or the salary cap where people aren't aware of specific regulations etc, but everything else I post is generally opinion. Whether it says "in my opinion" or "I believe" in that sentence or not. Edited March 4, 2021 by GunnerBill 4
LeviF Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 He's about to be on the Dan Patrick show to explain himself.
mannc Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 57 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: He's about to be on the Dan Patrick show to explain himself. Simms explained himself fully on his podcast. He convinced me, even though I haven’t seen much of Wilson. By the way, he also loves Mack Jones, and ranks him just a shade behind Lawrence and Wilson. 1
njbuff Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 What's most important is that Wilson is a MUCH BETTER prospect than Sam Darnold was. That's good for the Jets and not so good for the Bills as they might have a divisional rivalry a few years down the road with Wilson leading the Jets. But here is to hoping that Wilson is a Jets bust too. 😁
H2o Posted March 4, 2021 Author Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, njbuff said: What's most important is that Wilson is a MUCH BETTER prospect than Sam Darnold was. That's good for the Jets and not so good for the Bills as they might have a divisional rivalry a few years down the road with Wilson leading the Jets. But here is to hoping that Wilson is a Jets bust too. 😁 Yes, but are the Jets going to take a QB is the question. They could instead think that Darnold was just a product of Gase the last two years and look to add weapons in the draft. It's going to be interesting to see how the first 3 picks play out. You know Jax is taking a QB, but both NY and Miami could justify taking one. I think Miami is less likely because they just drafted Tua, but you never know. Then you have Atlanta who obviously are looking towards their future, Carolina in need, San Fran I'm sure wants to upgrade, NE is in limbo, then you have Chicago, and Washington. It will be fun to watch the mad scramble and see how it all plays out. 2
TailgateChef Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 22 hours ago, Brennan Huff said: Trevor Lawrence is going to be a bust. I’m prepared for the hate... Mark me down for this as well. 1 1
GunnerBill Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 36 minutes ago, H2o said: Yes, but are the Jets going to take a QB is the question. They could instead think that Darnold was just a product of Gase the last two years and look to add weapons in the draft. It's going to be interesting to see how the first 3 picks play out. You know Jax is taking a QB, but both NY and Miami could justify taking one. I think Miami is less likely because they just drafted Tua, but you never know. Then you have Atlanta who obviously are looking towards their future, Carolina in need, San Fran I'm sure wants to upgrade, NE is in limbo, then you have Chicago, and Washington. It will be fun to watch the mad scramble and see how it all plays out. Jets are taking a QB. Book it. 1
Buffalo716 Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 In 100 years of college football Trevor Lawrence had the best true freshman campaign by a quarterback ever It's kind of hard to wow anybody after that Then For the next few years everybody is looking for every single fault to knock him down a peg.. he would have been the first overall pick after his freshman year 1 1
LeviF Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: In 100 years of college football Trevor Lawrence had the best true freshman campaign by a quarterback ever It's kind of hard to wow anybody after that Then For the next few years everybody is looking for every single fault to knock him down a peg.. he would have been the first overall pick after his freshman year Yeah and that was with some need for growth. He's gotten better and in my mind there's zero question about his position as a prospect.
Buffalo716 Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, LeviF91 said: Yeah and that was with some need for growth. He's gotten better and in my mind there's zero question about his position as a prospect. Yea barring injury or something catastrophic he's as clean as they come His upper body mechanics, release, arm strength, football IQ, athleticism, are all off the charts I was lucky enough to see him in high school and he was better than some NFL quarterbacks, not kidding Like he was making throws that some guys in the NFL can't make today 1
Thurman#1 Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 12 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree actually. I think when I post something on a message board it should be pretty implicit that it is my opinion. I don't think I should have to say "I believe" before everything I say to distinguish it as opinion. It is self evidently opinion to say player X is better than player Y etc. Indeed, on the contrary... on a message board such as this I think you should make it explicit when what you are doing is giving factual information. Like when I say "I know, for a fact, that Doug Whaley wanted to hire Hue Jackson in 2015 and was overruled." I don't do that very often. I occasionally will clarify things relating to the CBA or the salary cap where people aren't aware of specific regulations etc, but everything else I post is generally opinion. Whether it says "in my opinion" or "I believe" in that sentence or not. Fair enough that you disagree. You're claiming the freedom to communicate unclearly, and nobody can take that away from you. To communicate clearly and well should - I personally believe - be the goal in any public communication. Message board or not. If someone wants to be understood correctly, he should speak clearly. But some people have other priorities, and that's their prerogative. And no, you don't have to say "I believe" or "in my opinion" before every opinion, to be clear. I pointed out four easy alternatives and there are surely hundreds if not tens of thousands of ways to point out you're expressing an opinion. But if you don't mind being misunderstood easily and often, who am I to challenge your priorities? Hell, I'm just a guy on the internet. On the other hand, I have the right to say something along the lines of "What you have there is an opinion, it is certainly not a fact," if you state an opinion as a fact. I'm not a mind-reader, just a text-reader. Even if your intention is to give your opinion, if I can't understand that from the writing, I'm gonna react to what you wrote, just as I do for everyone. I just do my best to understand the words on the page or the screen, myself. I think that's what most people do, they assume what someone wrote is what they meant. I don't think of myself as bright enough to elicit unexpressed meaning from text. Worth pointing out, though, that Simms spends a great deal of time and care pointing out that what he says is opinion. 01:30 "Zach Wilson is clearly the number one quarterback in the draft for me." 04:00 "To me, he is the clear-cut number one quarterback in this draft. I love Trevor Lawrence, there's a lot I like. But I think Zack Wilson and him, there's a separation there, for my money and what I see and what I've evaluated." He even prefaces the whole thing with a similar statement, "What I'm evaluating here is what I see on the field. Yeah, I hear rumors and all that kind of stuff, OK? But all I can do is see what I see on the field and use my knowledge that way, and that's really what my rankings are all about." That was only the first four minutes. He goes on like that constantly, in pretty much every podcast. Why? I think it's because through long experience he's found out that, people misunderstand him. They hear it as, "I know this, 'cause I'm just that smart." He's been faced with that misunderstanding often enough that he knows if he wants to be correctly understood he's got to say this.
Recommended Posts