Southern_Bills Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 I definitely get Dawkins point of view and why he sees it that way. More people are definitely in prison for bad decisions than being actual "bad people". Not sure how you separate bad decisions from bad people but there is definitely a difference. I will say anyone who grew up south of the poverty line probably recieved similar treatment in life. Same as growing up north of the poverty line. We always have certain individuals who give everyone a bad name but we will never fix all people, its impossible.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 2, 2021 Author Posted March 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: I don't know anybody who wouldn't have empathy for a father stuck in jail. That's absolutely tragic. Hopefully he can get out soon and get back to his family. If he's saying that a specific law is impacting certain people more than others then maybe gun law education is the answer and he can help spread the word using his platform. What is his proposed solution? Bills fans want to support him and his family That wasnt his point though. He was only providing some context that it was a non-violent, victimless crime for which other states do not mandate prison time. So folks can see past the crime and see the person. Doesnt matter whether it was guns, drugs, speeding, shoplifting, etc. Nor did he say it needs a solution. Please dont derail this thread with politics. Go Bills!
BillsShredder83 Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 I hate the state of race relations in this country. We have criminal charges for hate crimes, yet the media skates freely while profiting from widening the racial divide. I dont know what the answer is but it feels too late to fix in my lifetime (im 32). Too much finger pointing, in all directions. (Im staying on the point of the article, hang with me) Im White, Christian, straight and male, and am exhausted from being constantly vilified for it. My feelings on that are just a drop in the bucket compared to how the black community has been treated during this countries existence, then I can absolutely empathize with the frustration they must feel.
Boxcar Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Not to get into race but I know a lot of white people who don't have dads either I don't think it's a race thing. It's an upbringing thing and an economic thing It's a statistics thing.
Gregthekeg Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Not to get into race but I know a lot of white people who don't have dads either I don't think it's a race thing. It's an upbringing thing and an economic thing OR maybe it is the fact based systematic approach to arresting minorities in this country that is the issue then? OR its the fact here are people in this country that will look down on someone just because of the color of their skin. I mean there are people that were alive when there was nothing wrong with "Whites Only Pools" for goodness sake. Then some of these people also created legislation and laws to target and harass minorities to keep the socio-economic advantages away from them. Not discussing race is not the answer. The old "I don't see color" isn't the answer that works anymore. In the article he discusses empathy, that is what we need. To understand that everyone has a story and that we cannot judge them without knowing their story too. Nobody wants to be poor, everybody wants to be happy and healthy and provide for themselves. I know how lucky I have been in my life to have the social and economic advantages that I have had in my life; and that doesnt make me feel that I am any better than anyone else. 2 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said: I don't know anybody who wouldn't have empathy for a father stuck in jail. That's absolutely tragic. Hopefully he can get out soon and get back to his family. If he's saying that a specific law is impacting certain people more than others then maybe gun law education is the answer and he can help spread the word using his platform. What is his proposed solution? Bills fans want to support him and his family I think perhaps Dawkins point is that there are people who don't have empathy for a father stuck in jail, because they see him as "criminals" and less. That sometimes, the fact that someone committed or was involved in a crime, blunts our perception of them as people. I don't think he was looking for answers or solutions to the specific crime his brother is in prison for. There are for sure some people locked up for whom I don't have much empathy, but they would be murderers or repeat violent offenders. My empathy's all for the victims there. 2
Buffalo716 Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Gregthekeg said: OR maybe it is the fact based systematic approach to arresting minorities in this country that is the issue then? OR its the fact here are people in this country that will look down on someone just because of the color of their skin. I mean there are people that were alive when there was nothing wrong with "Whites Only Pools" for goodness sake. Then some of these people also created legislation and laws to target and harass minorities to keep the socio-economic advantages away from them. Not discussing race is not the answer. The old "I don't see color" isn't the answer that works anymore. In the article he discusses empathy, that is what we need. To understand that everyone has a story and that we cannot judge them without knowing their story too. Nobody wants to be poor, everybody wants to be happy and healthy and provide for themselves. I know how lucky I have been in my life to have the social and economic advantages that I have had in my life; and that doesnt make me feel that I am any better than anyone else. Right there is part of the problem and your answer. For the most part it's not your everyday Joe that is some crazy racist It's actually the people in charge. The people in congress who make those laws and who made them They want to divide us I spent years of my life on the east side of Buffalo and everybody was struggling. The black white Latinos , all of them And if anything it honestly brought them closer because they were all going through the same stuff.. it doesn't matter if Your white or black in the hood when you both are struggling to eat obviously millions of lives can be changed if they had the ability to grow up in a nice Neighborhood 1 1
colin Posted March 2, 2021 Posted March 2, 2021 i don't really think just having a weapon on you without papers in nj gets you 5 years, at least not practically. im guessing dawin's brother had some other stuff on the rap sheet. we do have some draconian laws here in NJ tho.
Augie Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: Important for everyone to read perspectives like this. Especially those hailing from Bills country. I tend to be a rule follower. Break the rules, you get in trouble and lose what you have. It was easy for me, because I had a lot to lose (relatively). I didn’t have to create many opportunities, they were generally expected and given to me. Middle class, not privileged, but lucky. If I had grown up under different circumstances, there’s no telling what kind of desperate mistakes I might have made. I was born “lucky”. This is tricky. We need laws. We need to enforce the laws. (NOT taking a stance on gun laws in particular.) I have plenty of empathy for the people caught in this type of mess, and I can only wish I had an answer. . Edited March 3, 2021 by Augie 1
The Firebaugh Kid Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Not to get into race but I know a lot of white people who don't have dads either I don't think it's a race thing. It's an upbringing thing and an economic thing ECONOMIC 100%. It's cyclical poverty. The system is built to breed centuries of families who surrender their lives to broken dreams and government handouts because its "the way".
Andy1 Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 None of us can choose our parents or the zip code we grow up in. Statistically speaking, a lot of where we end up in life is probably determined by those types of things. Now certainly, some people overcome great odds to achieve success but those who got a bad roll of the dice when they were born have a much steeper hill to climb than others. Those of us who were fortunate to get a good upbringing do need empathy for others. Personally, I struggle to have empathy for violent criminals or those who physically or financially harm those less fortunate than themselves. I think people find it easier to be more empathetic with others, similar to themselves. One of the great things about football is that people from all sorts of backgrounds come together and form friendships with teammates who are different than themselves. Where else in society does a cantaloupe farmer hang with guys from the hood? Maybe football players are more empathetic than others because of this dynamic. Definitely sounds like something McDermott would preach. It’s not easy, but empathy for others different from ourselves is a start. It’s in the Bible too. 1
Southern_Bills Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, Andy1 said: None of us can choose our parents or the zip code we grow up in. Statistically speaking, a lot of where we end up in life is probably determined by those types of things. Now certainly, some people overcome great odds to achieve success but those who got a bad roll of the dice when they were born have a much steeper hill to climb than others. Those of us who were fortunate to get a good upbringing do need empathy for others. Personally, I struggle to have empathy for violent criminals or those who physically or financially harm those less fortunate than themselves. I think people find it easier to be more empathetic with others, similar to themselves. One of the great things about football is that people from all sorts of backgrounds come together and form friendships with teammates who are different than themselves. Where else in society does a cantaloupe farmer hang with guys from the hood? Maybe football players are more empathetic than others because of this dynamic. Definitely sounds like something McDermott would preach. It’s not easy, but empathy for others different from ourselves is a start. It’s in the Bible too. Your statement is definitely truthful, usually when we interact with people on a personal level we get along fine. When we have preconceived ideas of people from outside forces things can get silly. Hopefully we eventually learn to talk to our neighbors again.
Augie Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Southern_Bills said: Your statement is definitely truthful, usually when we interact with people on a personal level we get along fine. When we have preconceived ideas of people from outside forces things can get silly. Hopefully we eventually learn to talk to our neighbors again. Sadly, our immediate neighbors too often look and think just like us, whatever that may be. One of the (few) things I like about moving to Atlanta is the diversity. I like being a minority in many places and ways. I’m a rare white guy at some of my favorite places and I get a different perspective into how others live. You think you know, but life is full of surprises. I think I’m better for that. 2 2
T master Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) That really sucks for Dion but mostly for his brothers kids !! One thing i caught was that the law must have been made because where they were was a high crime area & i know NJ has some really bad places that i for one wouldn't want to live in but that being said all should not be judged the same for their actions due to the area in which they live or the color of their skin ! I don't know the particulars but it seems if this was Dions brothers first offense that he should be judged as harshly and that he has children that depend on him should have definitely been a consideration in his discipline . Every one makes mistakes and deserves a second chance especially if its a first offense they need to take into consideration the persons past and not just the moment . But when you enter gov't into any thing you can bet it's definitely not going to be right in some way shape or form !! Edited March 3, 2021 by T master
BuffaloBill Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 Very powerful read. It is hard to break the cycle of poverty when the school systems, legal process and then just acceptance in general have decks stacked against you. As Dion said it may take a combination of both hard work and luck to do so.
Southern_Bills Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 4 hours ago, T master said: That really sucks for Dion but mostly for his brothers kids !! One thing i caught was that the law must have been made because where they were was a high crime area & i know NJ has some really bad places that i for one wouldn't want to live in but that being said all should not be judged the same for their actions due to the area in which they live or the color of their skin ! I don't know the particulars but it seems if this was Dions brothers first offense that he should be judged as harshly and that he has children that depend on him should have definitely been a consideration in his discipline . Every one makes mistakes and deserves a second chance especially if its a first offense they need to take into consideration the persons past and not just the moment . But when you enter gov't into any thing you can bet it's definitely not going to be right in some way shape or form !! Well, he had an unregistered gun which usually means you have prior or you don't want anyone to know you have it, or you just simply didn't do what you was supposed to as far as registering it. Not judging him just saying one of those 3 are true. I live in Alabama so gun laws here are extremely relaxed (which I enjoy) I will avoid anti-gun/pro-gun speak. I grew up on the not so fortunate side so I do understand how easy it is to make a huge mistake just doing what everyone you know does.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 On 3/2/2021 at 1:11 PM, DrDawkinstein said: I wont quote from the article. You all can read it and take it how you want. But I will ADD to it. A quote from Good Omens by Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett: “It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people.” Love that book
ghostwriter Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 On 3/2/2021 at 1:10 PM, Boxcar said: Was the gun charge simply having a gun that wasn't registered to him? If so, 5 year minimum is insane. I get you need to have standards for crimes but that seems like a long time. Not to get political or anything, but a lot of black youth suffer from not having a dad, statistically speaking. This has correlated to a higher likelihood of crime and gang activity. So I have to ask: how does taking a dad away from his kids for 5 years help this situation at all? It seems counter productive, assuming Dion isn't skipping over any important details. A lot of them have to acquire firearms because they’re in fear of their life. I’ve lived in multiple bad neighborhoods, some of my neighbors are drug addicts and hardened criminals. What do you do if you have an offense and a nonviolent offense at that that prohibits you from protecting yourself? Hell, what do you do if you have even a violent offense that prohibits you from protecting yourself when you live in a neighborhood riddled with drugs, violence and gangs? You can get killed in these places over $50 or even because you are wearing the wrong clothes. Have too many valuables in your house? Can get robbed and killed over that too..
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 On 3/2/2021 at 1:10 PM, Boxcar said: Was the gun charge simply having a gun that wasn't registered to him? If so, 5 year minimum is insane. I get you need to have standards for crimes but that seems like a long time. Not to get political or anything, but a lot of black youth suffer from not having a dad, statistically speaking. This has correlated to a higher likelihood of crime and gang activity. So I have to ask: how does taking a dad away from his kids for 5 years help this situation at all? It seems counter productive, assuming Dion isn't skipping over any important details. My guess is jersey has extreme gun laws because the gun violence is so bad... some of the most violent parts NY and Philly metro area are in Jersey.
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