So do a Diggs type deal this year for a DE?

[SoCal Deek]

I didn’t read through all of this but just skimming the surface you’d get the sense that the Bills are a mess. They’ve been to the playoffs three out of four years now, finished the season 13-3, and came within a win of the super bowl. Not too shabby. They’re going to be fine with a few roster tweaks here and there. They’re in so much better shape than they were just a year ago. We all know the roster spots needing attention and so do the coaches. I’m guessing they’ll improve ‘a little’ at each of them but I’m doubtful that there’ll be any home run, swing for the fences, changes.

Edited March 2, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[poblano]

12 minutes ago, colin said:

For crying out loud, it's the last line you quoted dude:

 

 if we don't trade for mccaffery, etiene or whoever could be the guy to be the 1 to moss's 2, im really not certain on one player over another.  i'd assume we could get OG in the 1st and RB in the 2nd.

 

if, IF, we don't trade for mccaffery, we can get an OG in the 1st.  if we traded our first, i think it's rather evident that we wouldn't be able to use it on an OG.

But why  overpay to Carolina for a player you have to overpay 💵, if you want McCafrey don't waste a 1st, much less two 1st.  To take the load of his contract you must pay less, much much less.

And certainly i want interior OL in draft

[Matt_In_NH]

My opinion, yeah you can do it that way but there are consequences.  Typically you might do things that way if you have a small window.  You are trading draft capital for cap/known production.  Sometimes that makes sense but for the most part you want to draft, hit and get production from players on rookie contracts.   The Bills are not in a great position to take on large contracts, they could do some cap gymnastics to make it happen but there will be pain down the road if you do it that way.  

[RyanC883]

15 hours ago, smuvtalker said:

I don't disagree with you that a good defense is a great offense.  During our glory years with our juggernaut offenses, our "bend but don't break" defense wasn't legendary, but we had HOF type talent at every level: Bruce on the line, Biscuit AND Talley at LB, Odomes in the secondary....

 

But time and time again its been PROVEN that in the big show, its a stellar defense that can pave the way to hoist the Lombardi.  I know you said it was only one game last year, but it was THE game!!  Tampa's D shut down one of the most prolific offenses to grace the field!  They made a half a billion dollar quarterback look like a journeyman....

 

totally agree.  You need the complete package to win it all.  Our 90's D's got LIT UP in Super Bowls due to the "bend and don't break."  That only works so long.   You need ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK, D to win.  

[Chicken Boo]

15 hours ago, smuvtalker said:

But time and time again its been PROVEN that in the big show, its a stellar defense that can pave the way to hoist the Lombardi.  I know you said it was only one game last year, but it was THE game!!  Tampa's D shut down one of the most prolific offenses to grace the field!  They made a half a billion dollar quarterback look like a journeyman....

 

Keep in mind the Chiefs dropped 2 TD passes. They ended up leaving 11 points on the field.

 

Eric Fisher doesn't get hurt against the Bills and that's a completely different ball game.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Chicken Boo

[RyanC883]

12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Yup. All four SuperBowls and even a bunch of the AFC playoff games the Bills super offense was stopped.  What did they beat the Broncos 10-7 for one of the Championship games. Everyone remembers 51-3 and the comeback game, but there were low scoring games too.

The answer isn't defense. The answer is pass rush. They already have a secondary that is good enough. They need to improve the pass rush. I don’t care one bit about stopping the run game and neither does the NFL.

 

Agree we need a better pass rush, but you also have to stop the run game.  You simply cannot get gashed there or we will get beaten like we did against KC and Tenn this year.  you can't be a total sieve.  That said, I think we can draft some 1T's to help in run stopping.  And developmental Edge players who can contain and eventually pass rush, while spending FA money on impact pass rushers.  Bonus: there are 1T's that generate pass-rush pressure.  

[Boxcar]

15 hours ago, costrovs said:

 

So which RB do you want with pick 30?

Alex Leatherface

[Hebert19]

The key to sustainability in the NFL is cheap rookie contracts.   We need to draft well with those early picks so we don't have to have a bunch of 10M plus per year players. No more trading picks...the plan has worked.  Don't deviate.  Draft well and plug in good starters via FA.  

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Yup. All four SuperBowls and even a bunch of the AFC playoff games the Bills super offense was stopped.  What did they beat the Broncos 10-7 for one of the Championship games. Everyone remembers 51-3 and the comeback game, but there were low scoring games too.

The answer isn't defense. The answer is pass rush. They already have a secondary that is good enough. They need to improve the pass rush. I don’t care one bit about stopping the run game and neither does the NFL.

 

 

Nope

 

The problem in those four Super Bowls wasn't so much the offense. It was that unfortunately all four of those teams that beat them had monster OLs and were willing and able to pound the ball again and again and again and again to burn clock and keep our offense off the field. Not to mention that most of the rest of the reason our offense was stopped was that they came up against terrific Ds.

 

The teams we faced were the #1, #2, #5 and #2 defenses in points allowed in the league. Whereas we were #6, #19, #14 and #5. We had better offenses, and they had better defenses. They won.

 

And as for the run D not being important ... man, you don't want to use those SBs as evidence there.

 

XXV:  The Giants rushed 39 times for 172 yards and that greatly assisted in allowing the Bills only 10 possessions (excepting a one-play kneel-down  drive before half-time.

 

XXVI:  Washington rushed 40 times for 125 yards. That one was not close. They beat us up in every phase.

 

XXVII:  Dallas had 29 rushes for 137 yards. That game was not close in any way. They destroyed us in every phase. We had eight fumbles in that game!! We only lost five (three from Frank Reich after Kelly's) but that and the 4 INTs and we were never close. Nine turnovers !!!

 

XXVIII:  The other one we could have won. Dallas ran 35 times for 137 yards and 2 TDs. Held us to 10 possessions.We led at halftime and the second half was all Emmitt Smith. Thurman says he lost the game with his fumbles, and there's some truth to that, but our defense simply couldn't stop their run game in the second half.

 

Yeah, pass defense is more important. But that doesn't make run defense unimportant. Less important, yes. Unimportant, no.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

The key to sustainability in the NFL is cheap rookie contracts.   We need to draft well with those early picks so we don't have to have a bunch of 10M plus per year players. No more trading picks...the plan has worked.  Don't deviate.  Draft well and plug in good starters via FA.  

 

 

 

Yes, precisely. It gets harder to draft well the further back you get in the round. But you still have to do it well.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Thurman#1

[junior]

22 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

The key to sustainability in the NFL is cheap rookie contracts.   We need to draft well with those early picks so we don't have to have a bunch of 10M plus per year players. No more trading picks...the plan has worked.  Don't deviate.  Draft well and plug in good starters via FA.  

 

This is where I'm at. I think (hope) the Diggs trade was an infrequent type of thing and that we don't trade away future 1sts for talent. Yes, he's obviously a top-tier player and I'm ecstatic he's on the team/think he helped JA get to the next level - but if we want to be good over the long term, we need to have young, talented players on rookie contracts. 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I hate this. Every part of it.

 

Every single time someone tries to argue that one matters and the other doesn’t we get a brand new example of why that’s not true. The Chiefs lost because the Bucs defense shellacked them. The 49ers lost because their defense wasn’t enough vs the Chiefs offense. It’s not either or. It’s both. It always has been and always will be. 

 

 

You can hate it all you want..........but the data supports the fact that offense is the better, more sustainable area to invest in.

 

Simple as that.

 

If you want to look at it on a year-to-year basis, yes you will have aberrations like a Tampa team that was 7-5 thru 12 games and "shellacked" multiple times in the process caught fire and stayed healthy and won the SB over a severely depleted offensive line on a team that was 17-1.    

 

If I have a young QB I will take my chances with being that 17-1 offense-dominant team and end up 18-1 more often than not. 

 

31 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nope

 

The problem in those four Super Bowls wasn't so much the offense. It was that unfortunately all four of those teams that beat them had monster OLs and were willing and able to pound the ball again and again and again and again to burn clock and keep our offense off the field. Not to mention that most of the rest of the reason our offense was stopped was that they came up against terrific Ds.

 

The teams we faced were the #1, #2, #5 and #2 defenses in points allowed in the league. Whereas we were #6, #19, #14 and #5. We had better offenses, and they had better defenses. They won.

 

And as for the run D not being important ... man, you don't want to use those SBs as evidence there.

 

XXV:  The Giants rushed 39 times for 172 yards and that greatly assisted in allowing the Bills only 10 possessions (excepting a one-play kneel-down  drive before half-time.

 

XXVI:  Washington rushed 40 times for 125 yards. That one was not close. They beat us up in every phase.

 

XXVII:  Dallas had 29 rushes for 137 yards. That game was not close in any way. They destroyed us in every phase. We had eight fumbles in that game!! We only lost five (three from Frank Reich after Kelly's) but that and the 4 INTs and we were never close. Nine turnovers !!!

 

XXVIII:  The other one we could have won. Dallas ran 35 times for 137 yards and 2 TDs. Held us to 10 possessions.We led at halftime and the second half was all Emmitt Smith. Thurman says he lost the game with his fumbles, and there's some truth to that, but our defense simply couldn't stop their run game in the second half.

 

Yeah, pass defense is more important. But that doesn't make run defense unimportant. Less important, yes. Unimportant, no.

 

 

 

Referencing the NFL of 30 years ago and not acknowledging that it's a totally different game both offensively and defensively now is ridiculous.

[colin]

3 hours ago, poblano said:

But why  overpay to Carolina for a player you have to overpay 💵, if you want McCafrey don't waste a 1st, much less two 1st.  To take the load of his contract you must pay less, much much less.

And certainly i want interior OL in draft

 

because they already paid his bonus so you get just about the most dangerous RB in the NFL for our offense at a reduced rate, to me that's worth a pick, and josh's new money will hit hard in a couple years so im happy to get guys who can play now and pay now.

[gobills404]

17 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

Haason Reddick is a free agent OLB from the Cardinals,  only 26  with 13 sacks last season.  Former 13th overall first rounder with elite closing speed,  market value is around 11-12million.  Cardinals may not have money now that they gave JJ around 16 mill

The Cardinals tried to make him an off-ball linebacker and he was starting to look like a total bust, which is why they just used him as an undersized pass rush specialist (which is what he was in college) in their 3-4 defense. He's way too small to play DE in a 4-3, so the only way he'd be of much use to us is if we brought back the Zo role. I'd rather not spend a chunk of our limited cap space on someone who's gonna play less than half the snaps.

[IgotBILLStopay]

18 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Any thoughts on a player we might be able to throw our 30th pick to for a quality DE that makes a immediate impact for us?

 

 

Yes. Bring in Danielle Hunter - Will be Diggs 2.0 trade. Vikes are confident in their drafting abilities after Diggs, Waynes, Kendricks, Hunter, Jefferson etc. - will gladly accept a first this year.

[Alphadawg7]

19 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Any thoughts on a player we might be able to throw our 30th pick to for a quality DE that makes a immediate impact for us?

 

 

Why all this pressure to get a DE?  We were 6th in QB pressures and second only to Pitt in speed to getting to the QB last season.

 

WE NEED BEEF.  We were often dominated in the trenches and need to beef up the interior DL rotation.

 

We also need a LB if Milano isn’t coming back, especially one who can cover a TE and middle of the field.  
 

We have higher priorities than DE.  I am not saying we couldn’t benefit from an upgrade to the pass rush, but it’s not our biggest problem on defense and we have a young player who showed promise there that was a 2nd round pick last year.

 

Beef on DL, LB, starting DB opposite Tre, and stopping the run are bigger needs and we have limited space to work with.  But all I see on this board is people focusing just on getting a pass rushing DE.

 

If all we do is add a different DE to this D and replace Addison, our defense won’t be any better.  

[Nextmanup]

19 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

Invest in Offense over Defense. 

 

NFL Defense in Year 2021 and beyond is a mirage - it comes and goes. Do not be fooled by 1 game (the Super Bowl).

 

Your best defense is a great offense. If your offense is staying on the field and scoring at will, your defense just needs to be good enough.

 

The Bills Offense in 2020 was not good enough versus the Chiefs in both games, not even close actually.

 

OFFENSE needs to be the primary focus.

One of the best posts I've read here in a long time.

Filled with so much that is right.

 

I'm sure it will be somewhat unpopular here!

 

😂

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

20 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Travis Etienne.

 

"But he's a RB"

 

It's the 30th pick in the draft. I'm ok at that spot with investing in a weapon, not a runner - in the mold of Alvin Kamara. Etienne is much better than CEH btw. Catch-first, run-2nd RB with home run ability in both facets.

 

When the WRs spread the field and clear out room underneath, a simple swing pass to Alvin Kamara 2.0 will result in 15-20 yard 1st downs. This element (dynamic receiving RB who can also keep defenses honest running the ball) is a huge missing piece of the offense.

 

Etienne will also take some runs to the house. Those home run plays in the run game will alter the defense, as well.

 

He's also the perfect fit in a Pass-First Offense. He doesn't waste time in the backfield moving laterally, he just cuts upfield.

A good ol’ water bug as the great Chan Gailey would say. For as long as I can remember, I’ve always wanted a Sproles/Woodhead/ type player on this roster. It adds a whole new dimension.

[IgotBILLStopay]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Why all this pressure to get a DE?  We were 6th in QB pressures and second only to Pitt in speed to getting to the QB last season.

 

WE NEED BEEF.  We were often dominated in the trenches and need to beef up the interior DL rotation.

 

We also need a LB if Milano isn’t coming back, especially one who can cover a TE and middle of the field.  
 

We have higher priorities than DE.  I am not saying we couldn’t benefit from an upgrade to the pass rush, but it’s not our biggest problem on defense and we have a young player who showed promise there that was a 2nd round pick last year.

 

Beef on DL, LB, starting DB opposite Tre, and stopping the run are bigger needs and we have limited space to work with.  But all I see on this board is people focusing just on getting a pass rushing DE.

 

If all we do is add a different DE to this D and replace Addison, our defense won’t be any better.  

we will be adding Lotuleilei also, no?

[Returntoglory]

19 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

Tampas Defense steam rolled the whole playoffs. I'm not sure we need a top 3 defense but we definitely need to get more physical. That can be said for both sides of the ball though. 

What we need to do is get after the QB!

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Why all this pressure to get a DE?  We were 6th in QB pressures and second only to Pitt in speed to getting to the QB last season.

 

WE NEED BEEF.  We were often dominated in the trenches and need to beef up the interior DL rotation.

 

 

 

Why cant both be an offseason need?

 

How did those QB pressures influence the Championship game? Mahomes could have rolled himself a smoke before he had to pass the ball and that was with a beat up OL.

 

They need to at least get younger at DE.. Addison and Hughes might be both gone by 2022...

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Aussie Joe