Thoughts on Curtis Samuel

[Nextmanup]

Never trust anyone with two first names.

 

 

[BillsFan1988]

I hope we just take Ettiene at #30 if he's available. This offense has really good wideouts what we really need is either a difference maker at RB or TE. Now all world TE are very very hard to find it's not a direct science finding them either I think it's more about how there developed more then anything else. But backs u can find them and usually the better ones are located in first couple rds of the draft. Ettiene has a Kamara type style to him but I think he's even a better runner then Kamara. This Offense would definitely shoot to the stars with a difference making back. 

[Logic]

Never trust a man with two first names.




*Suddenly remembers that our quarterback is named Josh Allen"

Ah, shoot....

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I'm not so sure.  I think getting released off the Texans mid-season when his salary was fully guaranteed is a flag - "we'd rather have your space than your pre-paid services".  I think they brought him in as a 3 week audition for whether or not he could fit in as "process".  I have no preset opinion on the outcome.

 

That Stills has bounced-around a bit is concerning.  But with a small, short-term contract, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, Doc said:

That Stills has bounced-around a bit is concerning.  But with a small, short-term contract, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

I sorta went through this argument back when we were handing out small contracts like candy to different WR (in 2018 or whenever it was).  Add up a million here, a million there, and next thing you know you got $5-8M tied up and you could obtain a legit upgrade at some position.

Fast forward to the present, I think with the cap situation so tight, we have to look hard at who we give small short-term contracts to.  Obviously the Bills are the ones who had the up-close-and-personal look at Stills and his habits and how he got along with the team. 

If giving a small, short term contract to Kenny Stills means we don't give one to, say, Isaiah McKenzie who has caught nearly 73% of everything thrown at him in the last 2 years (and they weren't all jet sweeps) and who apparently talks unlimited trash but will do anything he can to help the team whether it's playing Kyler Murray or Lamar Jackson for the scout team or filling in at CB or returning punts, then IMHO its an issue.

 

 

 

 

[RyanC883]

Would love him on the Bills. 
 

But if we shed money to create cap space, would rather spend it on an Edge.  McKenzie should be cheapish to keep, and some speedy WR’s project in the 4-6 round range.  
 

btw, I think we trade out of 30 into 2nd and get a 4th round pick. 

43 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That Stills has bounced-around a bit is concerning.  But with a small, short-term contract, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

Stills was a baller at MIA and fell off a cliff o something.   

[LyndonvilleBill]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I sorta went through this argument back when we were handing out small contracts like candy to different WR (in 2018 or whenever it was).  Add up a million here, a million there, and next thing you know you got $5-8M tied up and you could obtain a legit upgrade at some position.

Fast forward to the present, I think with the cap situation so tight, we have to look hard at who we give small short-term contracts to.  Obviously the Bills are the ones who had the up-close-and-personal look at Stills and his habits and how he got along with the team. 

If giving a small, short term contract to Kenny Stills means we don't give one to, say, Isaiah McKenzie who has caught nearly 73% of everything thrown at him in the last 2 years (and they weren't all jet sweeps) and who apparently talks unlimited trash but will do anything he can to help the team whether it's playing Kyler Murray or Lamar Jackson for the scout team or filling in at CB or returning punts, then IMHO its an issue.

 

 

 

 

This is were I am at well. I'd rather pay 3 mill or so and have Mckensie than 4 mill plus for someone else. I think he's earned it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

This is were I am at well. I'd rather pay 3 mill or so and have Mckensie than 4 mill plus for someone else. I think he's earned it.

 

I know he isn't a guy we drafted, but I see him for sure as a "draft and develop" homegrown sort of guy who has really come on as a route runner and is worth keeping.  Especially if we want speed!

 

Getting back to the OP topic, I'm sure Curtis Samuel would be an upgrade, but in a limited cap year I'm not sure how we swing that.

[LyndonvilleBill]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I know he isn't a guy we drafted, but I see him for sure as a "draft and develop" homegrown sort of guy who has really come on as a route runner and is worth keeping.  Especially if we want speed!

Totally agree as I see them cutting Brown in order to re-sign William's. Mckensie just seems like the right fit for Buffalo and the team. As you've said, he'll do whatever he needs to do for the Team. Not many wr's have that attitude...

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not so sure.  I think getting released off the Texans mid-season when his salary was fully guaranteed is a flag - "we'd rather have your space than your pre-paid services".  I think they brought him in as a 3 week audition for whether or not he could fit in as "process".  I have no preset opinion on the outcome.

 

 

Stills might be washed but you are wrong on two important counts:

 

1) The Texans didn't just choose to release him.........he ASKED for his release.

 

2) The Texans had a deep and high quality veteran WR corps........the X and Z that Stills would preferably play combined for 2,000 yards receiving.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

17 hours ago, Estro said:

Curtis Samuel, IMO, is the perfect FA target for the Bills.

 

I still remember Buffalo media members raving over his skillet when the Bills practiced Carolina a few years back. I also think he's a WR that is very underrated due to the QBs he's played with (Cam on his downside & journeyman Teddy).

 

I'm also of the belief that the Bills should prioritize adding weapons for the offense and making sacrifices on defense to keep our offense strong. I feel like McDermott can get more out of less on the defensive side of the ball, so I'd like to see our limited cap space spent on players that help our offense.

 

Here's my idea of what a Curtis Samuel deal could look like that the Bills could easily fit in cap space wise this yr:

 

3 years - $34.5M

$12M signing bonus

 

Yr 1: $1.5M base ($13.5M cash), $5.5M cap

Yr 2: $10.5M base, $14.5M cap

Yr 3: $10.5M base $14.5M cap

 

Keep in mind this could be Cole Beasley's last year on the Bills, so I like the idea of getting someone like Samuel who can replace Brown @ the X spot this year......but also a guy who is versatile enough to perhaps replace Cole Beasley @ the slot position in 2022 (the Bills save $6.1M by cutting Beasley next year)

 

I also think a guy like Samuel would maybe take just a little bit less to play with Josh Allen & in an offense where his production could shine.  I dont think he'd take a huge discount, but if it's between the Bills @ 3 years - $34.5M or say the Jets @ 3 yrs - $39M I could envision a scenario where he'd prefer the Bills.

 

 

I like where you are going with this.........IMO the best and longer term return on investment for this team is going to come from investing on the offensive side of the ball.    

 

That requires excellent pro and college scouting work on the defensive side of the ball.........but that's why they have this all-star staff.

 

If Whaley and company can find a Zach Brown and Lorax for pennies in the span of a week in the bargain portion of free agency and have them turn into the league's leading tackler and a DPOY candidate then we should hope that this staff can find some bargains to provide better bang for the buck than some of the previous UFA shopping trips.

[The Jokeman]

An affordable John Brown type might be Phillip Dorsett.

[Aussie Joe]

35 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If Whaley and company can find a Zach Brown and Lorax for pennies in the span of a week in the bargain portion of free agency and have them turn into the league's leading tackler and a DPOY candidate then we should hope that this staff can find some bargains to provide better bang for the buck than some of the previous UFA shopping trips.

 

Im glad Whaley found a few bargain basement types.. 

 

What was the best record they had during Whaley's time in the seat.. did they get to 9-7 one time?

 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I sorta went through this argument back when we were handing out small contracts like candy to different WR (in 2018 or whenever it was).  Add up a million here, a million there, and next thing you know you got $5-8M tied up and you could obtain a legit upgrade at some position.

Fast forward to the present, I think with the cap situation so tight, we have to look hard at who we give small short-term contracts to.  Obviously the Bills are the ones who had the up-close-and-personal look at Stills and his habits and how he got along with the team. 

If giving a small, short term contract to Kenny Stills means we don't give one to, say, Isaiah McKenzie who has caught nearly 73% of everything thrown at him in the last 2 years (and they weren't all jet sweeps) and who apparently talks unlimited trash but will do anything he can to help the team whether it's playing Kyler Murray or Lamar Jackson for the scout team or filling in at CB or returning punts, then IMHO its an issue.

 

They could sign both Stills and McKenzie with the money saved cutting Brown.  Maybe even have some left over.  They'll need to add WRs given McKenzie and Roberts are UFAs and if they feel they should move on from Brown.  As for Stills, whether he fits and still has something left is up to them to determine given the 3 week audition he had.  If not, they still need to add a WR or two.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Im glad Whaley found a few bargain basement types.. 

 

What was the best record they had during Whaley's time in the seat.. did they get to 9-7 one time?

 

 

They did in 2014. Whaley's 3 full years (ie where he was in charger of draft and free agency) they were exactly .500 - 9-7, 8-8, 7-9 despite some pretty appalling coaching. But I don't think Badol's point was to defend Whaley or suggest he is better than our current front office. Just that they have overspent on guys they know on the defensive side in FA and that isn't a sustainable strategy when the priority switches now to being an offense first team led by a top 5 QB. You need your cap $$s for weapons and protection and so you have to get more creative on defense.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Stills might be washed but you are wrong on two important counts:

1) The Texans didn't just choose to release him.........he ASKED for his release.

 

Do you think the Texans would have released him, given that his salary was fully guaranteed, if they didn't want his space more than his contributions at that point?

How often do you think teams release a player with a guaranteed salary when he asks with 6 games left, unless they see him as a guy they want out of the room?

 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

2) The Texans had a deep and high quality veteran WR corps........the X and Z that Stills would preferably play combined for 2,000 yards receiving.

 

You're talking about Brandin Cooks, who played 15 games, and Will "Whoops! Suspended!" Fuller who played 11 games, and who?

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

Anybody for Kendrick Bourne??? Bigger, more physical WR. Can probably get for a real good bargain 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Anybody for Kendrick Bourne??? Bigger, more physical WR. Can probably get for a real good bargain 

 

Slow though... I think he is a better fit in that Shanahan scheme than in the spread style concepts Daboll and the Bills ran last year. I'd expect him to end up at one of the many Shanny style teams.

[Aussie Joe]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 But I don't think Badol's point was to defend Whaley or suggest he is better than our current front office. Just that they have overspent on guys they know on the defensive side in FA and that isn't a sustainable strategy when the priority switches now to being an offense first team led by a top 5 QB. You need your cap $$s for weapons and protection and so you have to get more creative on defense.

 

Beane has overspent on some guys in FA.. cant argue with that... 

 

But like I keep saying.. you cant ignore the D or just try to find bargain basement types to fill the gaps...

 

I keep going back to the Bucs and how they absolutely stuck it up Kansas City..  That D is solid top to bottom..

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Beane has overspent on some guys in FA.. cant argue with that... 

 

But like I keep saying.. you cant ignore the D or just try to find bargain basement types to fill the gaps...

 

I keep going back to the Bucs and how they absolutely stuck it up Kansas City..  That D is solid top to bottom..

 

 

 

 

They found Shaq Barrett at a bargain price (I know he played on the tag this year) and the two linebackers, Vea and their whole secondary are drafted guys who with the exception of David are on their rookie deals. They have Suh and JPP at age 32 and 34 who have made their money and are playing below their true value to be on a competitor. 

 

There is no "one way" to win in this league I say it all the time, but the Bills defensive free agent strategy has to be about finding more Poyers and Hydes and fewer Addisons and Butlers. Especially this year there will be bargains out there to be had. They have to find them.