BillsFan130 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 Rivers just retired but that is an interesting one to me. I think he is going to be right on the border. For me I would vote no, but I think he has a legit chance of getting in 1
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Rivers just retired but that is an interesting one to me. I think he is going to be right on the border. For me I would vote no, but I think he has a legit chance of getting in Agree. He never played well in the playoffs and threw a ton of interceptions. Will be an interesting vote to follow. 2
whatdrought Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 28 minutes ago, Rico said: College hall of famer for sure though. I don’t think he was wearing babushkas back then. I don’t follow much college football (usually just enough to know about draft stuff) but that seems pretty easy to me- if you win the Heisman, you belong in the college football hall of fame. With guys playing as little as one or two years of football, being the best in the nation is pretty automatic, I think. Not the same standard with the NFL. Winning MVP isn’t a free pass into the Hall. You have to have a career of impact. 1
st pete gogolak Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 3 hours ago, fasteddie said: I'm surprised that Gilmore isn't on this list, the way all the commentators talk about him. Gilmore is a heck of a lot closer than Newton. Multiple All-Pro, DPOY. I'm not a huge fan but he's got a decent chance to get in. 2
Orlando Buffalo Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 6 hours ago, whatdrought said: It’s up for debate, so let’s debate it: ”Is Cam Newton a hall of famer?” ”No. Absolutely not.” Debate over. I actually just looked up his career stats and he only had 3 winning seasons. One dominant season does not get you in or else Bryce Paup would in. 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said: Rivers just retired but that is an interesting one to me. I think he is going to be right on the border. For me I would vote no, but I think he has a legit chance of getting in I am not sure why he is a maybe for anyone- 8 pro bowls, top 5 in yards thrown all time, had a winning record more often then not. He absolutely deserves in the Hall unless your goal is to raise the qualifications to be closer to the baseball hall. 1
chongli Posted February 27, 2021 Author Posted February 27, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: Chongli, first I want to commend you. A healthy debate is great and why so many of us keep coming here. Of the rookies this year posting, you have put out very thoughtful well informed, and researched threads. Also, several guys this year for some reason have been veiled or hidden agenda guys not really Bills fans. I’m not the guy to call people out, and it’s fine for people that love this team to question decisions. You on the other hand have started several threads that were thoughtful, seems like you do love this team, and wanted to say thank you. Regarding the thread, my first quick pass as I’ll probably read later tonight in it’s entirety is very interesting. I don’t doubt Gore gets the yellow jacket. He’s the third all time rusher. I doubt anyone is going to let him get another 726 yards to get past Payton. It’s really too bad we mismanaged this team to lose Peters. It speaks to the buffoons we had in charge at that time. I don’t have a problem with guys still early in their career not being a lock like Diggs. Barring injuries for him and White if repeating year after year will get there. Maybe Allen someday. That’s a conversation for a decade from now. Machine Gun Kelly: you have been so nice to me with this and your other post. And thank you for taking the time to write this. This really encourages me. Thank you for being so welcoming. I try my best. I try to post only when something is meaningful; and try to add substance to the forum, especially now that it is slower in the off-season. But most importantly, I try to emulate the well-respected posters here: you and a number of others. This board is both very civil and knowledgeable, and I like that. As for potential Hall of Famers for our team, I agree with you. Still way too early for Allen, Diggs, and White (as well as McDermott, Beane, and the Pegulas), but their futures appear to be bright. Right now, Tasker is the one who really needs to get in. Edited February 27, 2021 by chongli 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 I know people won’t like it but Gilmore has a shot. 2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: There are plenty of people around here that defend Bills trading Peters. Yes it is true he had recently signed a deal but it was clear to everyone he was special. He deserved to be treated special and given a new contract. You break the rules for special talent and he was. He was a top 3 LT in the league and he was not paid commensurate with his play. There is a ton more to that story though. The Bills called him and he acted like a giant baby and won’t answer the phone. He showed up fat and out of shape and put other players in danger. is Peters a great player? Absolutely. But he totally forced the Bills had. And how many wins do we get with Peters as a LT with JP Losman and Trent Edwards? Matter of fact, the Eagles won the SB with Peters missing half of the season. 1
Buffalo716 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I know people won’t like it but Gilmore has a shot. There is a ton more to that story though. The Bills called him and he acted like a giant baby and won’t answer the phone. He showed up fat and out of shape and put other players in danger. is Peters a great player? Absolutely. But he totally forced the Bills had. And how many wins do we get with Peters as a LT with JP Losman and Trent Edwards? Matter of fact, the Eagles won the SB with Peters missing half of the season. Gilmore is absolutely gonna get in. He was a stud here that everybody hated on for no reason, and now he's a defensive player of the year He's been an elite quarterback for a long time 1 1 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: Gilmore is absolutely gonna get in. He was a stud here that everybody hated on for no reason, and now he's a defensive player of the year He's been an elite quarterback for a long time He didn’t smile when he got drafted. 1
BillsFan130 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I am not sure why he is a maybe for anyone- 8 pro bowls, top 5 in yards thrown all time, had a winning record more often then not. He absolutely deserves in the Hall unless your goal is to raise the qualifications to be closer to the baseball hall. Regular season HOf er for sure. But he never really played that well in the playoffs and never even got to a SB. Now I’m not blaming that all on him as it’s a team game, but he never played his best football when it mattered the most.
MJS Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Gilmore is absolutely gonna get in. He was a stud here that everybody hated on for no reason, and now he's a defensive player of the year He's been an elite quarterback for a long time He is a great player, but that doesn't mean he is a hall of famer. If he were to retire tomorrow I would put money on him NOT getting in. That means he hasn't done enough yet. He had two really good seasons. The rest were above average. And as a Bill he was good, but not great. And he usually struggled for the first half of the season before looking like one of the best in the league in the second half of the season. And it started that way in NE too. There were Pats fans calling for him to get released. But he put it all together, became consistently good, and is now a fantastic player. But no, he was not playing to the level he is now when he was a Bill. He clearly got better.
Buffalo716 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MJS said: He is a great player, but that doesn't mean he is a hall of famer. If he were to retire tomorrow I would put money on him NOT getting in. That means he hasn't done enough yet. He had two really good seasons. The rest were above average. And as a Bill he was good, but not great. And he usually struggled for the first half of the season before looking like one of the best in the league in the second half of the season. And it started that way in NE too. There were Pats fans calling for him to get released. But he put it all together, became consistently good, and is now a fantastic player. But no, he was not playing to the level he is now when he was a Bill. He clearly got better. I never said if he were to retire today he get in. If he plays another three four seasons at a high level he will .. And Pat's fans are the most fickle in the league hahah most are bandwagoners and no nothing about the game Slow starter, sure. his slow starts we're still better than 85% of the cornerbacks in the league.. and when he started peeking week 6 he was absolutely elite.. in Buffalo and New England People have revisionist history and beer goggles when it comes to Gilmore here.. he was much better than good here.. he played at all pro levels and never got the nod Anybody could agree to disagree with that .. but I've had 30 years scouting football players with a specialty on the defensive side and I always said Gilmore was an all pro who was underappreciated.. now he's a defensive player of the year.. and he's the same player.. he just went to a better team with more recognition Edited February 27, 2021 by Buffalo716
MJS Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Regular season HOf er for sure. But he never really played that well in the playoffs and never even got to a SB. Now I’m not blaming that all on him as it’s a team game, but he never played his best football when it mattered the most. It's going to be interesting to see what happens going forward with QB's like him. It is now common to have QB's play deep into their 30's and even 40's now. That means they all accumulate stats. QB's who are good will get into the best all-time category when you look just at raw stats. I'm pretty sure he led the league in INT's a couple times (he threw 18 in 2014 and 21 in 2016, and had two other seasons with 20 INT's). But he consistently three for over 4,000 yards. To me he is a toss up. But I think he'll get in because of recency bias. 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: I never said if he were to retire today he get in. If he plays another three four seasons at a high level he will .. And Pat's fans are the most fickle in the league hahah most are bandwagoners and no nothing about the game Slow starter, sure. his slow starts we're still better than 85% of the cornerbacks in the league.. and when he started peeking week 6 he was absolutely elite.. in Buffalo and New England People have revisionist history and beer goggles when it comes to Gilmore here.. he was much better than good here.. he played at all pro levels and never got the nod Anybody could agree to disagree with that .. but I've had 30 years scouting football players with a specialty on the defensive side and I always said Gilmore was an all pro who was underappreciated.. now he's a defensive player of the year.. and he's the same player.. he just went to a better team Let the record state that I disagree with you and your 30 years of experience. I'm fine with that. We all have to trust our own eyes. 1
Buffalo716 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, MJS said: It's going to be interesting to see what happens going forward with QB's like him. It is now common to have QB's play deep into their 30's and even 40's now. That means they all accumulate stats. QB's who are good will get into the best all-time category when you look just at raw stats. I'm pretty sure he led the league in INT's a couple times (he threw 18 in 2014 and 21 in 2016, and had two other seasons with 20 INT's). But he consistently three for over 4,000 yards. To me he is a toss up. But I think he'll get in because of recency bias. Let the record state that I disagree with you and your 30 years of experience. I'm fine with that. We all have to trust our own eyes. I have no problem with that we are allowed to have our own opinions.. I'm not as high on Pat mahomes as most But everybody who knows me from bbmb knows I was pounding the table for Gilmore for years and said he was our best defensive player.. and that we're losing an all pro. In that retrospect I was absolutely correct. You don't have to agree with it, but I knew he had the talent for the accolades 1
K-9 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: The Peters debacle was just a disaster by the FO, but Marshawn did not give us a choice. All absolutely terrific. Neither did Peters, but I won’t re-litigate the matter. 4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: Rivers just retired but that is an interesting one to me. I think he is going to be right on the border. For me I would vote no, but I think he has a legit chance of getting in Rivers is a lock. The only question is will he be a 1st ballot selection and I’m on the fence there. 1
FireChans Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 49 minutes ago, MJS said: It's going to be interesting to see what happens going forward with QB's like him. It is now common to have QB's play deep into their 30's and even 40's now. That means they all accumulate stats. QB's who are good will get into the best all-time category when you look just at raw stats. I'm pretty sure he led the league in INT's a couple times (he threw 18 in 2014 and 21 in 2016, and had two other seasons with 20 INT's). But he consistently three for over 4,000 yards. To me he is a toss up. But I think he'll get in because of recency bias. Let the record state that I disagree with you and your 30 years of experience. I'm fine with that. We all have to trust our own eyes. Stephon Gilmore was given a contract that made him the second highest paid corner in football after being “above average” in Buffalo. You’re wrong. He was star here. 1 1
BillsFan130 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 15 minutes ago, K-9 said: Rivers is a lock. The only question is will he be a 1st ballot selection and I’m on the fence there. A potential first ballot HOFer and a lock for a guy with no Sbs, mvp awards, or all pros? If rivers is a first ballot HOFer and is considered a lock to make the HOF, that really taints the hall of fame IMO. 1
GunnerBill Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 12 hours ago, chongli said: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/every-nfl-teams-most-likely-future-hall-of-famer-tom-brady-aaron-donald-among-17-locks/ Here is my summary, with lock or not from CBS. They list two former Bills as locks: Jason Peters and Frank Gore. Not sure I agree about Baltimore's Justin Tucker as a lock considering so few special teamers get in. Steve Tasker belongs in before Tucker. Former Bills player LeSean McCoy is not listed, and won't get in, IMO. Arizona - Larry Fitzgerald - Lock: Yes Atlanta - Julio Jones - Lock: Yes Baltimore - Justin Tucker - Lock: No, but close Buffalo - Tre-Davious White - Lock: No "White is still in the early stages of his career Josh Allen's 2020 season gave him consideration for this spot. But the nod ultimately went to White, who followed up his 2019 All-Pro season with a second consecutive Pro Bowl selection. White's play last season helped the Bills reach their first AFC title game since 1993. More seasons like the one he just had may get Stefon Diggs into this conversation next offseason. In his first season with the Bills, Diggs led the NFL in receptions and receiving yards while earning his first All-Pro nod. " Carolina - Christian McCaffrey - Lock: No Cincinnati - Geno Atkins - Lock: No Chicago - Khalil Mack - Lock: No, but very close Cleveland - Myles Garrett - Lock: No, but appears to be on the way Dallas - Tyron Smith - Lock: No Denver - Von Mille - Lock: Yes Detroit - Adrian Peterson - Lock: Yes Green Bay - Aaron Rodgers - Lock: Yes Houston - Deshaun Watson - Lock: No Indianapolis - Justin Houston - Lock: No Jacksonville - Josh Allen - Lock: No Kansas City - Patrick Mahomes - Lock: No, but closer than you think Las Vegas - Derek Carr - Lock: No Los Angeles Chargers - Joey Bosa - Lock: Yes Los Angeles Rams - Aaron Donald - Lock: Yes Miami - Xavien Howard - Lock: No Minnesota - Harrison Smith - Lock: No New England - Cam Newton - Lock: No, but this should be up for debate New Orleans - Drew Brees - Lock: Yes New York Giants - Saquon Barkley - Lock: No New York Jets - Frank Gore - Lock: Yes Philadelphia - Jason Peters - Lock: Yes Pittsburgh - Ben Rothlisberger - Lock: Yes San Francisco - Richard Sherman - Lock: Yes Tampa Bay - Tom Brady - Lock: Yes [They also list Gronk as a lock and Antonio Brown as a possibility if he continues successfully] Washington - Brandon Scherff - Lock: No Top Free Agent Candidate: JJ Watt - Lock: Yes Tucker is a LOCK 12 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: A potential first ballot HOFer and a lock for a guy with no Sbs, mvp awards, or all pros? If rivers is a first ballot HOFer and is considered a lock to make the HOF, that really taints the hall of fame IMO. He is a lock to get in. He won't get in on 1st ballot IMO. 21 minutes ago, FireChans said: Stephon Gilmore was given a contract that made him the second highest paid corner in football after being “above average” in Buffalo. You’re wrong. He was star here. Yep. Gilmore was the best player on those Bills teams. Most of our fans refused to see it cos he didn't smile on draft day. Pathetic the hate he got. I was accused of being a homer for talking up Gilmore when he was here, and now will be accused of being a hater for saying it now that he is gone. 1
K-9 Posted February 27, 2021 Posted February 27, 2021 26 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: A potential first ballot HOFer and a lock for a guy with no Sbs, mvp awards, or all pros? If rivers is a first ballot HOFer and is considered a lock to make the HOF, that really taints the hall of fame IMO. I understand the sentiment, but Rivers won’t be the first HOFer without a SB, MVP, or All Pro nomination to be inducted.
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