article on Zack Moss in The Athletic

[Hapless Bills Fan]

https://theathletic.com/2402686/2021/02/23/zack-moss-football-career-is-defined-as-much-by-spirit-as-it-is-by-pain/?article_source=search&search_query=zack moss

 

(Athletic, Matthew Fairburn, paywall, trial available)

I thought I saw this here, but I had a good try at the search function and couldn't find it.  Some points I found interesting:

 

Describes Moss making the decision to get a pre-game painkiller injection in his shoulder as a Ute sophomore to play against BYU

Quote

Moss thought about turning down that first injection. But he knew if he said, “No,” he might not be able to play. He knew coaches would try to convince him and tell him how players have been taking shots for years. 

 

“So I decided we could skip all that, I would say, ‘Yeah,’ and we could call it a day,” Moss said.

 

On gameday, Moss recalls the training staff walking over with “a big-ass needle.”

 

“Being injected into the shoulder is one of the worst feelings because you don’t really have a lot of tissue,” Moss said. “They have to put it right in that joint that goes from your collarbone and touches the shoulder. That’s where the sprain is. Once they jam it in there, you can just feel the injection stuff going in there and it’s painful as hell.”

 

I wonder if Allen was getting injections in his L shoulder for the next 3-4 games after Las Vegas.  Imma guess "yes".  But they're not side effect free:

Quote

That needle provides a temporary relief from the consistent throbbing of the shoulder sprain. But that first time, Moss said he felt loopy. His brain was foggy and he had trouble focusing. It didn’t help that Utah was playing at rival BYU in a raucous nighttime environment.

“There’s just so much stuff going on,” Moss said. “I don’t feel 100-percent. I feel terrible. I just don’t know what’s going on. I had like 30-something yards, no touchdowns. We won, so that was tight. But it was the worst game I played in college. Definitely.”

 

-Moss played linebacker in little league and his first 2 years of high school, but he wanted to play running back and was constantly going through the plays and the techniques with his older brother (who played RB) in the backyard and then watching tape of other running backs.  Arian Foster and Marshawn Lynch were two he tried to pattern himself on:

Quote

So, yeah, Moss was thinking beyond the playground. He knew football could be his way out. (....)He also knew his future wasn’t at linebacker. He looked at Division 1 and NFL rosters. There weren’t a lot of linebackers under six feet tall. But there were running backs his size playing at all levels.

 

When Moss got to high school, he decided he would find a way to play running back.

 

-All the injuries Moss has already played through by the time he got to the NFL: multiple sprained shoulders, sprained ankle, torn meniscus, broken arm (in spring), "cracked elbow".    Being a running back is literally the "hard knock life" and you better be able to not care about hit after hit.

 

-Even after all those injuries, the Bills didn't have him with a medical red flag:

Quote

When the third round began, Moss was sticking out on the Bills’ board. Despite the injuries, the Bills didn’t list Moss with a medical red flag. Beane started calling teams about trading up to get Moss but couldn’t find anyone willing to let him move. He and McDermott were elated when he was still available at the Bills’ pick. Beane used one more repeatedly to describe him: physical.  “He’s not going to avoid contact,” Beane said.

 

Very thought-provoking article for me, showing how these kids from big football areas are strategic about positioning themselves for a chance at the NFL, and how much of a beating their bodies take playing college ball.

[DJB]

Time to take the rains off Moss and give him more chances to be the #1 guy (unless we draft someone)

 

Singletary just isn't a starter.

[Nuncha]

13 minutes ago, DJB said:

Time to take the rains off Moss and give him more chances to be the #1 guy (unless we draft someone)

 

Singletary just isn't a starter.

Singletary shouldn't even be on this team IMO.

[DJB]

34 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

Singletary shouldn't even be on this team IMO.

 

Harsh and I've been one of his biggest critics since we drafted him, but until we upgrade him he can be our #2 or #3 RB. Hopefully he learns how to play ST to extend his career. 

[JaCrispy]

10 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

Harsh and I've been one of his biggest critics since we drafted him, but until we upgrade him he can be our #2 or #3 RB. Hopefully he learns how to play ST to extend his career. 

Exactly, and if he’s not too careful, he might find himself out of the league in short time...hard to see him beating out anyone, on any team, for a roster spot, with his severely limited skill set...

[Dr. K]

1 hour ago, Azucho98 said:

Singletary shouldn't even be on this team IMO.

This anti-Singletary thing is getting out of hand. 

[blacklabel]

One of the things I saw in a lot of scouting reports on him was that the mileage he already has could prevent him from reaching a second contract. Obviously that's just speculation and I hope he has a nice long career. But in order to do that he may need to reel it in on the physicality somewhat. 

 

And yeah, as some others have said, the anti-Singletary crusade around here is a bit much. He didn't play great but neither did the OL on most running plays this season. 

 

Maybe someone who's a bit better with the X's and O's can give me some insight on the run game scheme that Daboll employs. I recall it being said that Moss is an ideal zone runner but in Buffalo he's not in that type of system. And I know Daboll switches things up from week to week so one week maybe they are an inside zone running team and then next week it's all downhill, three yards and a cloud of dust type stuff. Clearly they'll prioritize the run game this year and I, for one, am good with the Singletary & Moss show. If they go in another direction that's fine too but I'm confident that 20 & 26 can be solid contributors. 

[C.Biscuit97]

26 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

This anti-Singletary thing is getting out of hand. 

Yeah. He was pretty solid as a rookie. He’s never going to be an every down guy but he can have a nice role on the team.

 

but they badly need some speed back there. It has to be the slowest group of backs in the league. I think Allen is the fastest out of all of them. 

[Special K]

33 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

This anti-Singletary thing is getting out of hand. 

 

I’m not anti-Singletary, but I am pro-Moss!!

 

I think he will be given every opportunity to be the lead back next year....I hope he rises to the challenge and earns that number 1 role.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

The problem is the running game is only designed to run in between the tackles.  Whether it is because both Moss and Singletary are only north, South runners but they need a back that can hit the corners causing defense to not play 8 and 9 10 in the box.  When the Bills played the Ravens in the playoffs decided to run to the outside in the second half they had some success.  Bills got to start using pitch outs and have the running backs hit the corner more.

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Dr. K said:

This anti-Singletary thing is getting out of hand. 

It’s just that his ceiling is so low, it’s hard to see him getting any better...no D coordinator will ever need to game plan for him- and that’s a problem...

[BuffaloBillies]

I'll preface by saying that I too am not a big Singletary guy either, and prefer Moss all day.

But maybe we are a little rough on him.

 

To me, the most important stat for an RB is Avg Yards Per Rush.

Here is the ranking from 2020 (at least 100 carries). I took out QBs.

(may have to click on image to zoom)

 

 

So both are a little below "middle of the pack" in YPR (4.4, 4.3)

But look at some of the players they are equal to or better than last year.

 

James Conner (4.3)

Kareem Hunt (4.2)

Ezekiel Elliot (4.0)

Josh Jacobs (3.9)

Joe Mixon (3.6)

 

I bet everyone on this board would say they would take any one of these 5 guys over Singletary in a heartbeat. But in 2020, Singletary outperformed them on this key stat.

 

I think what makes us "think" Devin can't cut it, is because he gets so few attempts than the guys listed here. These 5 guys get the ball 20-25 times a game, every game. So they end up with ~100 yards rushing, 1,000 on season, so their avg doesn't look so bad. If we handed to Singletary 20-25 times, he'd probably end up with ~100 too. But since he gets 10 carries, his overall game stats look weaker.

 

During this post, I've kind of talked myself into thinking, maybe it wouldn't be the worst if the RB position was NOT addressed this off-season... using FAs/draft on other positions of need. I don't think the RB position is as bad off as most people think. And since we're now pass-first offense... maybe he's adequate. 4.4 yards per carry is not bad.

 

 

Tried editing out the bottom of my previous post.

It wont save the edit for some reason... just ignore the bottom part.

End of post is "not bad"

Edited February 24, 2021 by BuffaloBillies

[BillsFan130]

55 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

It’s just that his ceiling is so low, it’s hard to see him getting any better...no D coordinator will ever need to game plan for him- and that’s a problem...

No speed, drops easy throws, can't break many tackles. So many flaws in his game.

[Buffalo716]

45 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

I'll preface by saying that I too am not a big Singletary guy either, and prefer Moss all day.

But maybe we are a little rough on him.

 

To me, the most important stat for an RB is Avg Yards Per Rush.

Here is the ranking from 2020 (at least 100 carries). I took out QBs.

(may have to click on image to zoom)

 

 

So both are a little below "middle of the pack" in YPR (4.4, 4.3)

But look at some of the players they are equal to or better than last year.

 

James Conner (4.3)

Kareem Hunt (4.2)

Ezekiel Elliot (4.0)

Josh Jacobs (3.9)

Joe Mixon (3.6)

 

I bet everyone on this board would say they would take any one of these 5 guys over Singletary in a heartbeat. But in 2020, Singletary outperformed them on this key stat.

 

I think what makes us "think" Devin can't cut it, is because he gets so few attempts than the guys listed here. These 5 guys get the ball 20-25 times a game, every game. So they end up with ~100 yards rushing, 1,000 on season, so their avg doesn't look so bad. If we handed to Singletary 20-25 times, he'd probably end up with ~100 too. But since he gets 10 carries, his overall game stats look weaker.

 

During this post, I've kind of talked myself into thinking, maybe it wouldn't be the worst if the RB position was NOT addressed this off-season... using FAs/draft on other positions of need. I don't think the RB position is as bad off as most people think. And since we're now pass-first offense... maybe he's adequate. 4.4 yards per carry is not bad.

 

 

Tried editing out the bottom of my previous post.

It wont save the edit for some reason... just ignore the bottom part.

End of post is "not bad"

Average yards per Rush gets skewed by so many things

 

Amount of rushes, where the player gets most of his touches, does he go against a stacked box 

 

Singletary gets so little carries and goes against six man boxes all the time. So a 4.5 yard per carry average is actually not that special.. And he doesn't get goal line touches 

 

if he had 300 carries a year including goal line touches I don't even think he'd be 4.0 playing like last year

 

 

[ticketssince61]

45 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Average yards per Rush gets skewed by so many things

 

Amount of rushes, where the player gets most of his touches, does he go against a stacked box 

 

Singletary gets so little carries and goes against six man boxes all the time. So a 4.5 yard per carry average is actually not that special.. And he doesn't get goal line touches 

 

if he had 300 carries a year including goal line touches I don't even think he'd be 4.0 playing like last year

 

 

 

The garbage time 51 yard TD run against the Broncos - added  0.33 to his YPC (I know other runners have those as well)

[BillsShredder83]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

https://theathletic.com/2402686/2021/02/23/zack-moss-football-career-is-defined-as-much-by-spirit-as-it-is-by-pain/?article_source=search&search_query=zack moss

 

(Athletic, Matthew Fairburn, paywall, trial available)

I thought I saw this here, but I had a good try at the search function and couldn't find it.  Some points I found interesting:

 

Describes Moss making the decision to get a pre-game painkiller injection in his shoulder as a Ute sophomore to play against BYU

 

I wonder if Allen was getting injections in his L shoulder for the next 3-4 games after Las Vegas.  Imma guess "yes".  But they're not side effect free:

 

-Moss played linebacker in little league and his first 2 years of high school, but he wanted to play running back and was constantly going through the plays and the techniques with his older brother (who played RB) in the backyard and then watching tape of other running backs.  Arian Foster and Marshawn Lynch were two he tried to pattern himself on:

 

-All the injuries Moss has already played through by the time he got to the NFL: multiple sprained shoulders, sprained ankle, torn meniscus, broken arm (in spring), "cracked elbow".    Being a running back is literally the "hard knock life" and you better be able to not care about hit after hit.

 

-Even after all those injuries, the Bills didn't have him with a medical red flag:

 

Very thought-provoking article for me, showing how these kids from big football areas are strategic about positioning themselves for a chance at the NFL, and how much of a beating their bodies take playing college ball.

Random, but im assuming you subscribe to the athletic...... i took advantage of a 3mos for $1/mth.  Its about to end lol how much is it normally.  They dont have a ton of content, but the stuff they do have is a quality product!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

The problem is the running game is only designed to run in between the tackles.  Whether it is because both Moss and Singletary are only north, South runners but they need a back that can hit the corners causing defense to not play 8 and 9 10 in the box.  When the Bills played the Ravens in the playoffs decided to run to the outside in the second half they had some success.  Bills got to start using pitch outs and have the running backs hit the corner more.

 

This is in fact, incorrect about the Bills running game being only designed to run between the tackles.

 

Our backs see a lot of 6 man boxes, we can't take advantage

 

It is a fair point that our guys don't have the speed to hit the corner
 

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Dr. K said:

This anti-Singletary thing is getting out of hand. 

 

 

Indeed. 

 

They don't let him being 2nd in the league in YPA in 2019 bother their ridiculous logic. The fact that Beane said, "I'm not looking at Devin Singletary or Zack Moss and thinking those guys came up short for us," can't be allowed to enter the equation for an instant.

 

There was a thread a few days ago about who are the biggest scapegoats on the Bills right now. Singletary was right up there. It's kind of sad how people grab the pitchforks and storm the castle as option one, and they do it again and again.

[Sherlock Holmes]

6 hours ago, Dr. K said:

This anti-Singletary thing is getting out of hand. 

Yes it is! But while we are at it send him to Carolina towards McCaffrey and keep Moss!

[T master]

17 hours ago, DJB said:

Time to take the rains off Moss and give him more chances to be the #1 guy (unless we draft someone)

 

Singletary just isn't a starter.

 

I don't believe either of them are starters from what we've seen to this point