Fallon Fox - Transgender MMA fighter

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, daz28 said:

A lot of the difference in relative strength likely comes from body fat %, which is mostly due to hormones.  Even among top athletes women have a higher %.  Some strength difference is due to twitch fiber, but the difference in strength there is made up by endurance.  Otherwise, men and women gain strength at the same rate at the same level of intensity.  You can look that up. The only way trans man vs women would be fair is if the trans person were on hormone therapy.  A man with 4% body fat who wears a dress would certainly hold the strength advantages that Brents claims.  

 

I agree with Beast, you are a dunce. 

 

Yes men and woman gain strength at the same rate but men start off with more muscle mass.  I mean this is common sense.

 

They are also not talking about muscular endurance, they're talking about muscular strength lol.

 

https://www.livescience.com/52998-women-combat-gender-differences.html#:~:text=But in one way%2C the,skeletal muscle mass than women.

 

But in one way, the sex difference is stark: Men are physically stronger than women, on average. A study in the Journal of Applied Physiology found that men had an average of 26 lbs. (12 kilograms) more skeletal muscle mass than women. Women also exhibited about 40 percent less upper-body strength and 33 percent less lower-body strength, on average, the study found.

 

And the other link in the previous post, even after the the procedure, the transgender woman only loses about 5% of their mass and kept all her strength.  So basically, after becoming a female, they still have men's strength. Does this make any sense?

Here, I'll share it again.

 

https://news.ki.se/new-study-on-changes-in-muscle-mass-and-strength-after-gender-affirming-treatment-may-have-an

 

What did you find out?

In line with what we expected, the transgender men increased muscle mass and strength significantly after 12 months of testosterone therapy. Perhaps more surprising was that the transgender women did not lose strength at all despite inhibited testosterone production. In addition, the effect on muscle mass of the transgender women was less pronounced than many people previously thought, losing only 5% of the muscle volume over the thigh muscles.

 

 

Geezus man.  If you don't know about something, it's okay.  There's things/subjects/topics you probably know a lot about but it's not this....clearly.  

Ask me about the stock market, I'm clueless and I certainly won't argue any firm position on it because I don't have the knowledge.  That's called being ignorant on purpose.  This is what you're doing.

 

You're arguing just to argue at this point.  

Edited February 27, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[daz28]

22 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I agree with Beast, you are a dunce. 

 

Yes men and woman gain strength at the same rate but men start off with more muscle mass.  I mean this is common sense.

 

https://www.livescience.com/52998-women-combat-gender-differences.html#:~:text=But in one way%2C the,skeletal muscle mass than women.

 

But in one way, the sex difference is stark: Men are physically stronger than women, on average. A study in the Journal of Applied Physiology found that men had an average of 26 lbs. (12 kilograms) more skeletal muscle mass than women. Women also exhibited about 40 percent less upper-body strength and 33 percent less lower-body strength, on average, the study found.

 

And the other link I shared above, even after the the procedure, the transgender woman only loses about 5% of their mass. Does this make any sense?

Geezus man.  If you don't know about something, it's okay.  There's thing you probably know a lot about but it's not this....clearly.  

Ask me about the stock market, I'm clueless and I certainly won't argue any firm position on it because I don't have the knowledge.  That's called being ignorant on purpose.  This is what you're doing.

 

You're arguing just to argue at this point.  

 

 

If they both have the same fat mass, they're going to have roughly the same muscle mass.  I'm saying if both people have the same MASS.  A person with a MASS of 150 lbs and 5% body fat has the same MASS of a 150 lb person with 5% body fat.  With the same training they will have the same muscle MASS.  If they are taking the hormones, then they will not have the same muscle MASS as a man.

 

Ya, this is what beast said verbatim, "Are really are a dunce."

If you're going to call someone dumb, at least try to do it right ffs.  Maybe he meant," I really are a dunce", which would STILL technically be wrong.

Edited February 27, 2021 by daz28

[T master]

On 2/24/2021 at 5:22 PM, gobills404 said:

"That is just a d*ckless dude beating the sh*t out of a woman"

 

Oh man now they are going to cancel Bill Burr that is just pure hate speech !! What ever !! 

 

The dude is on point that is total BS and if a law is passed about it if i were the female athletes i would boycott every match with any trans athlete it's just wrong !! When they start losing money that will turn some heads they need to make a stand .

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, daz28 said:

 

 

If they both have the same fat mass, they're going to have roughly the same muscle mass.  I'm saying if both people have the same MASS.  A person with a MASS of 150 lbs and 5% body fat has the same MASS of a 150 lb person with 5% body fat.  With the same training they will have the same muscle MASS.  If they are taking the hormones, then they will not have the same muscle MASS as a man.

 

Ya, this is what beast said verbatim, "Are really are a dunce."

If you're going to call someone dumb, at least try to do it right ffs.  Maybe he meant," I really are a dunce", which would STILL technically be wrong.

Are you really trying to say a woman has the same strength as men if they are the same size/same mass?

[daz28]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Are you really trying to say a woman has the same strength as men if they are the same size/same mass?

https://sportsscientists.com/2019/03/On Transgender athletes and performance advantages | The Science of Sport (sportsscientists.com)

 

I think if the trans person is on hormone therapy it would be close.  This article delves into it, but somehow this guy states that, "The initial typical advantage in mass and strength that biological males enjoy over females is between 20% and 100%".  That's high, but the accepted number between elite male and female athletes is 10-15%.  It also states that within 12 months of hormone therapy there is a 5% loss.  Right now there's not a ton of data, but in the current climate there should be more data coming soon.  

Edited February 27, 2021 by daz28

[BillStime]

Just another wedge issue for the insecure GQP to spew hate.

[daz28]

Just now, BillStime said:

Just another wedge issue for the insecure GQP to spew hate.

It really is, but a lot of independents are against it, too.  They seem to only take into consideration one side of the issue, and that's what fair in sports, without considering what's fair for both sides.  There's so much transphobia that all the 1776 patriots forget that all PEOPLE are created equal, which is NOT DISPUTABLE.  Everyone deserves the same rights.  Now I get that a man beating on a women in sports is wrong, but they aren't even attempting to think of ways to make it fair/level the playing field.  Realistically, there are NOT droves of trans males just lining up to dominate sports.  I'd say most of them are doing everything in their power to be MORE feminine if anything.  This issue is mostly fear mongering over the abomination that the bible describes.  Truth is the abomination is the way one human is treating another.  Fear what you don't understand mentality.  

[Royale with Cheese]

30 minutes ago, daz28 said:

https://sportsscientists.com/2019/03/On Transgender athletes and performance advantages | The Science of Sport (sportsscientists.com)

 

I think if the trans person is on hormone therapy it would be close.  This article delves into it, but somehow this guy states that, "The initial typical advantage in mass and strength that biological males enjoy over females is between 20% and 100%".  That's high, but the accepted number between elite male and female athletes is 10-15%.  It also states that within 12 months of hormone therapy there is a 5% loss.  Right now there's not a ton of data, but in the current climate there should be more data coming soon.  

Its not close lol.  That’s the specific reason why they separate genders in sports.

 

Fighters are only measured on weight.  That aren’t breaking it down to a science.

If they weigh the same, they fight.  And the the female transgender fighter is significantly stronger than a regular female.

She’s broken two skulls for crying out loud.

 

You don’t understand fighting....my god.

[daz28]

28 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Its not close lol.  That’s the specific reason why they separate genders in sports.

 

Fighters are only measured on weight.  That aren’t breaking it down to a science.

If they weigh the same, they fight.  And the the female transgender fighter is significantly stronger than a regular female.

She’s broken two skulls for crying out loud.

 

You don’t understand fighting....my god.

Is Fox on hormone therapy?  Looked it up, she has been for 18 years. For what it's worth her record is 5-1, so a woman has already tko'd her.

Edited February 27, 2021 by daz28

[njbuff]

Chyna and X-pac were virtually the same size.

 

Who would have won the fight, EVERY TIME, if they fought for real?

 

X-pac would murder Chyna EVERY single time.

 

Catch my drift?

 

Biological men should NEVER be on the same playing/fighting surface as biological women. Case closed. End of story.

 

This doesn't take bi-partisan political stances to figure this out.

 

Women's sports are pissed on enough. No need to involve men to take women's sports down even further.

[BillStime]

39 minutes ago, daz28 said:

It really is, but a lot of independents are against it, too.  They seem to only take into consideration one side of the issue, and that's what fair in sports, without considering what's fair for both sides.  There's so much transphobia that all the 1776 patriots forget that all PEOPLE are created equal, which is NOT DISPUTABLE.  Everyone deserves the same rights.  Now I get that a man beating on a women in sports is wrong, but they aren't even attempting to think of ways to make it fair/level the playing field.  Realistically, there are NOT droves of trans males just lining up to dominate sports.  I'd say most of them are doing everything in their power to be MORE feminine if anything.  This issue is mostly fear mongering over the abomination that the bible describes.  Truth is the abomination is the way one human is treating another.  Fear what you don't understand mentality.  

What these freaks don’t understand that people aren’t having sex changes so they can compete against in sports. 
 

And for heaven sakes - what percent are?

 

I don’t buy the bullshitt - it’s a wedge issue to spew hate and divide.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by BillStime

[daz28]

6 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Chyna and X-pac were virtually the same size.

 

Who would have won the fight, EVERY TIME, if they fought for real?

 

X-pac would murder Chyna EVERY single time.

 

Catch my drift?

 

Biological men should NEVER be on the same playing/fighting surface as biological women. Case closed. End of story.

 

This doesn't take bi-partisan political stances to figure this out.

 

Women's sports are pissed on enough. No need to involve men to take women's sports down even further.

Hypothetical fake wrestling is your empirical evidence.  If the gap were as wide as you think it is a women would NEVER under ANY circumstance beat a trans athlete.  Women in any sport DO unquestionably lose to the top men in any sport.  There are literally thousands of men who ran faster than the fastest woman ever, and women's lower body strength isn't that far behind mens.  You don't see that kind of gap between women and trans athletes.

12 minutes ago, BillStime said:

What these freaks don’t understand that people aren’t having sex changes so they can compete against in sports. 
 

And for heaven sakes - what percent are?

 

I don’t buy the bullshitt - it’s a wedge issue to spew hate and divide.

 

 

BBButttt the scholarships.  That'll destroy the world as we know it.  They'd boycott women's sports if they didn't already think they were silly, and didn't watch them.

[njbuff]

2 hours ago, daz28 said:

Hypothetical fake wrestling is your empirical evidence.  If the gap were as wide as you think it is a women would NEVER under ANY circumstance beat a trans athlete.  Women in any sport DO unquestionably lose to the top men in any sport.  There are literally thousands of men who ran faster than the fastest woman ever, and women's lower body strength isn't that far behind mens.  You don't see that kind of gap between women and trans athletes.

BBButttt the scholarships.  That'll destroy the world as we know it.  They'd boycott women's sports if they didn't already think they were silly, and didn't watch them.

 

I said in a REAL fight you dipshyt.

[Royale with Cheese]

20 hours ago, daz28 said:

Is Fox on hormone therapy?  Looked it up, she has been for 18 years. For what it's worth her record is 5-1, so a woman has already tko'd her.

 

Yeah it's not worth a lot.  A competitive advantage doesn't mean they are invincible, it just means they aren't on level playing field, usually by an unnatural substance.

There are MMA fighters who have tested positive for PED's and have lost.  Does that mean they should allow steroids in fighting because they don't have a 100% win rate?

 

https://sweetscienceoffighting.com/transgender-mma-fighters-time-to-stop-the-madness/

 

Do Transgender Athletes Have An Unfair Advantage?

 

It has been shown that even after 24 months of testosterone suppression, transgender women maintain bone mass [1]. Bone mass may even be preserved over 12 years which suggests that sporting advantage from increased bone mass would be retained.

 

No study has reported muscle loss greater than 12% with testosterone suppression, even studies that tested transgender male to females after 3 years of therapy [1]. After 12 months of testosterone suppression, muscle loss is only around 3-5% on average.

 

Considering males have approximately 40% greater muscle mass than females, this reduction still leaves transgender athletes with a great advantage.

Similarly, a reduction in handgrip strength of 7% and 9% after 12 and 24 months respectively has been found in transgender women [1].

 

Further, when transgender women had testosterone within a normal female range, a decrease of only 4% in grip strength was found after 12 months of hormone therapy.

 

This lead to transgender women being in the top 10% of female grip strength scores. Further, transgender women remained 50% stronger than females after 12 months of testosterone suppression in the lower body [1].

 

Even 3 years after sex reassignment surgery and 8 years of hormone treatment, transgender women have been found to still be in the top 10% of females regarding lean body mass and have a 25% stronger grip [1].

 

These data suggest that strength, lean mass, and skeletal structure are maintained to a higher degree than the average female even in the long term for transgender women giving them a strength advantage.

 

Unfortunately, no controlled research has investigated the effect of testosterone suppression on endurance performance.

[Orlando Buffalo]

The argument that women are physically able to compete with top level men is absurd, the fact that some women can beat some men is only proof of a few exceptions. The 15 year old top male soccer team in the USA played and beat the Womens National Team. We have seen two boys dominate the Massachusetts girls division of track and field and it is best to not allow it to spread. I am supporter of Trans rights except where it comes at a cost to natural born women. As for someone who changed genders look at Laurel Hubbard who changed genders and is now a champ, I can't state I know motivation but neither can you.