Biden backs reparations study

[T master]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I think all but the most twisted-minded would agree that slavery is a horrific stain on the history of the country.  That said, I'm not sure how giving descendants trillions of dollars somehow would take away that stain.  What we need to do is end any kind of racism once and for all in the country, and create a country where all citizens have truly equal rights and equal access to the American dream.

 

Very true but how do you come about getting all races and people to believe and achieve it ? 

 

I've heard "King James" that makes multiple millions of dollars per year for PLAYING A GAME  liken white owners of sports teams to being slave owners while he only because of his hard work and dedication to being great sits in his $40+ million home . I don't believe he can relate in any way to being a slave if only to his work ethic and now his life style !! 

 

If that person given all his blessings because of his hard work to achieve his goals continues to put that message out there to todays youth instead of telling them that they can achieve the same things through hard work and dedication the thought that any race that considers them selves less fortunate deserve any more than the next person because of their history will never go away .

 

The "American Dream" can be had by any & all willing to sacrifice hard work and dedication to over coming any obstruction it's been proven over & over again !! Excuses are so much easier to come by than working for what you want ...

 

If we don't learn from history we will all be destined to repeat it !! 

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Very true but how do you come about getting all races and people to believe and achieve it ? 

 

I've heard "King James" that makes multiple millions of dollars per year for PLAYING A GAME  liken white owners of sports teams to being slave owners while he only because of his hard work and dedication to being great sits in his $40+ million home . I don't believe he can relate in any way to being a slave if only to his work ethic and now his life style !! 

 

If that person given all his blessings because of his hard work to achieve his goals continues to put that message out there to todays youth instead of telling them that they can achieve the same things through hard work and dedication the thought that any race that considers them selves less fortunate deserve any more than the next person because of their history will never go away .

 

The "American Dream" can be had by any & all willing to sacrifice hard work and dedication to over coming any obstruction it's been proven over & over again !! Excuses are so much easier to come by than working for what you want ...

 

If we don't learn from history we will all be destined to repeat it !! 

 

 

 

 

I think we have to act in a manner that promotes equality, and call out inequality when we see it.  I walked in the peaceful protests this past summer in my town; was proud to do so as I have friends of color that have been mistreated.  I have a lot of faith in the younger generation.  I have two daughters ages 25 and 19, and they and their friends truly do not see race.  I hope their generation can do what mine has not. 

34 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  This is not 1950's America.  Racism while not totally dead is very dormant.  Any person can go to college and follow their dreams as long as it corresponds to talents that they have.  Regardless of background it is impossible to make every person a scientist.  Some people regardless of background will not grasp advanced mathematics and science.  There are plenty of rewarding careers out there that do not require advanced degrees.  We as a society have placed great shame on working with a person's hands even though there are well paying jobs out there that utilize basic skills.  

Agree completely.  My wife is a college counselor at a high school where 90% of the kids go on to college.  The other day she had a bright kid in her office who wants to be an electrician, and they found some great associate's programs with internships for him.  He'll wind up doing great.  Directing more kids towards the trades is a very worthwhile undertaking.

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I think we have to act in a manner that promotes equality, and call out inequality when we see it.  I walked in the peaceful protests this past summer in my town; was proud to do so as I have friends of color that have been mistreated.  I have a lot of faith in the younger generation.  I have two daughters ages 25 and 19, and they and their friends truly do not see race.  I hope their generation can do what mine has not. 

Agree completely.  My wife is a college counselor at a high school where 90% of the kids go on to college.  The other day she had a bright kid in her office who wants to be an electrician, and they found some great associate's programs with internships for him.  He'll wind up doing great.  Directing more kids towards the trades is a very worthwhile undertaking.

Once again we agree. Most kids don’t understand this race nonsense. They simply don’t look at their world that way. Second, correct again, everyone doesn’t need to go to college. My wife retired from counseling last school year. She’s definitely of the same mindset.

[Motorin']

On 2/22/2021 at 10:13 AM, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

What have you done to make amends? maybe you can help give the rest of us guidance on what we can do as individuals.

 

 

I could tell about a number of my work initiatives aimed at increasing opportunities for black youth to be introduced to the real estate market and obtain real world job mentorship. But it was actually because of those initiatives that I learned the history of economic discrimination against black people for most of the 20th century.

 

So I would answer your question by saying that I don't think most any of us an individuals are responsible for making direct reparations for the systematic economic attack on black people during slavery, Jim Crow and the 20th and 21st century.

 

I do think the federal, state and local governments, as well as specific corporations who denied credit and the ability to build equity to black people for 100 years after slavery are responsible for making amends of some kind. For actual harm done.

 

I don't pretend to be able to offer up all of the solutions. I think it is extremely telling that there has never been the public will to even study how much damage was caused until this year. And I think that gets at the origin of your question, that is, an underlying belief that if the country were to try to repair the damage, you and I as individuals without person culpability would be held guilty and punished for crimes we did not committ.

 

I reject that notion. Our government, and the corporations who inflicted actual harm can attempt to repair the damage without you or I needing to be blamed or punished. I would go so far as to say the only reason "white guilt" exists is because the nation has refused to consider what might be entailed in repairing the damage. Is the attempt not a worthy goal in an of itself?

[SoCal Deek]

The fact that so many of you can’t see how utterly insulting and patronizing these threads are to the MILLIONS of hard working African Americans who have made it in this country is absolutely stunning! Stunning. 

[B-Man]

 

 

WHERE THINGS STAND:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

Follow the money...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 2/23/2021 at 2:30 PM, Motorin' said:

 

I could tell about a number of my work initiatives aimed at increasing opportunities for black youth to be introduced to the real estate market and obtain real world job mentorship. But it was actually because of those initiatives that I learned the history of economic discrimination against black people for most of the 20th century.

 

So I would answer your question by saying that I don't think most any of us an individuals are responsible for making direct reparations for the systematic economic attack on black people during slavery, Jim Crow and the 20th and 21st century.

 

I do think the federal, state and local governments, as well as specific corporations who denied credit and the ability to build equity to black people for 100 years after slavery are responsible for making amends of some kind. For actual harm done.

 

I don't pretend to be able to offer up all of the solutions. I think it is extremely telling that there has never been the public will to even study how much damage was caused until this year. And I think that gets at the origin of your question, that is, an underlying belief that if the country were to try to repair the damage, you and I as individuals without person culpability would be held guilty and punished for crimes we did not committ.

 

I reject that notion. Our government, and the corporations who inflicted actual harm can attempt to repair the damage without you or I needing to be blamed or punished. I would go so far as to say the only reason "white guilt" exists is because the nation has refused to consider what might be entailed in repairing the damage. Is the attempt not a worthy goal in an of itself?

This is the answer I expected; “somebody should pay, just not me”

 

Governments get their money from its citizens. At the very heart of this issue is the assertion that a Wealth redistribution must occur based on past inequity and the wealth thus must come from the privileged. You are either on the privileged side of the argument or the oppressed side.
 

There is no bystander if you subscribe to the reparations concept. And if you do, I expect you would willingly contribute your wealth to the cause voluntarily, whether the government advances the cause or not, otherwise your just upholding a hypocritical facade. 

[Motorin']

10 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

This is the answer I expected; “somebody should pay, just not me”

 

Governments get their money from its citizens. At the very heart of this issue is the assertion that a Wealth redistribution must occur based on past inequity and the wealth thus must come from the privileged. You are either on the privileged side of the argument or the oppressed side.
 

There is no bystander if you subscribe to the reparations concept. And if you do, I expect you would willingly contribute your wealth to the cause voluntarily, whether the government advances the cause or not, otherwise your just upholding a hypocritical facade. 

 

My property taxes went up recently due in part to a project I worked to exposure unfair, regressive property tax structure where historically redlined areas have been paying a higher % in property taxes than in wealthier green zones. The racial makeup of redlined neighborhoods is still predominantly black, and the green zones neighborhoods are predominantly white. 

 

What is really interesting is that the first town in America is instituting a reparations program where black citizens who were effected by racist housing policies will be receiving cash for housing down payments. The money will come out of a town tax on recreational marijuana. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Motorin'

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

29 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

My property taxes went up recently due in part to a project I worked to exposure unfair, regressive property tax structure where historically redlined areas have been paying a higher % in property taxes than in wealthier green zones. The racial makeup of redlined neighborhoods is still predominantly black, and the green zones neighborhoods are predominantly white. 

 

What is really interesting is that the first town in America is instituting a reparations program where black citizens who were effected by racist housing policies will be receiving cash for housing down payments. The money will come out of a town tax on recreational marijuana. 

So firstly that’s some good stuff. I do think those kind of things need to be identified and eliminated. 
 

Interestingly Your example is a fine example of where reparations might actually make sense. By your description, you were a participant and beneficiary of systemic racism. You were not paying your fair share of taxes while being subsidized by the oppressed. The right thing to do would be at minimum to repay the delta plus interest for however long, to those that were overtaxed. That’s how to restore equity and the math is much more straightforward than having to deal with an issue from generations ago. Thoughts? 

[Unforgiven]

https://www.westernjournal.com/americas-first-reparations-experiment-complete-disaster-black-recipients-complain-25000-payments-not-enough/

 

America's First Reparations Experiment a Complete Disaster as Black Recipients Complain $25,000 Payments Are Not Enough

 

 

<snip>

This is the first phase of a $10 million reparations plan put in place by the Chicago suburb to be paid for with a 3 percent tax on marijuana sales. The initial grants will come from a $400,000 pool.

<snip>

 

eek .... what the hell is going on in America

[Motorin']

The American and Canadian order of Jesuits will seek to make reperations for slavery to descendants of those enslaved by the American Church. Their goal is $100 million...

 

I suppose this makes the Catholic Church hatful and racist and out to destroy America (and Canada).

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/16/jesuit-conference-canada-us-catholic-reparations-descendants-enslaved-people

Edited March 17, 2021 by Motorin'

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

42 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

The American and Canadian order of Jesuits will seek to make reperations for slavery to descendants of those enslaved by the American Church. Their goal is $100 million...

 

I suppose this makes the Catholic Church hatful and racist and out to destroy America (and Canada).

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/16/jesuit-conference-canada-us-catholic-reparations-descendants-enslaved-people

This is great and how it should work. Any individuals or private institutions who knows or believes that they benefited from systemic racism or slavery should contribute t correct wrongs. This goes for other ethnicities that have also been subjected to the same.  
 

For example you stated you knowingly benefited from racist tax code which is very easily calculated in terms of you benefit and debt to repay. You should seek to retroactively pay that benefit plus interest to a fund that repays those who subsidized you or covers their taxes. Have you been able to start that process?  
 

I wouldn’t want to think you are some kind of hypocrite on this topic. 
 

The ubiquitous government reparations is a lot more difficult to tabulate, and assign cause but if they would have passed the entire stimulus bill to go to reparations, I’d have been ok with it. In fact a noble thing to do would be for all that support reparations to donate their stimulus check to a reparations fund to be distributed accordingly. 
 

whether or not it fixes anything in society, if a hard financial analysis can prove a financial wrong doing and assign cause to the a offender or offending institution, restitution makes sense. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood