daz28 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 Does anyone really believe that big Michael Brown thought he could go full Nero from The Matrix from 35 feet away, and dodge all the bullets until he got to the cop? Not to mention his pants had fallen halfway down. So it was basically Nero in a potato sack. He was also supposedly reaching at his waistband(which wasn't even at his waist) for a gun that wasn't there. Also, the Ferguson police force was overtly racist(it's well documented), so if anyone was stoking racism, it was them. What is egregious is completely ignoring that fact. Also, wasn't it perfectly fine for Trump to make statements that completely went against everything his CIA, DOJ, and FBI had found to be 'facts', but when Warren and Harris do it, they're in the wrong? That's hypocrisy
SoCal Deek Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, daz28 said: Does anyone really believe that big Michael Brown thought he could go full Nero from The Matrix from 35 feet away, and dodge all the bullets until he got to the cop? Not to mention his pants had fallen halfway down. So it was basically Nero in a potato sack. He was also supposedly reaching at his waistband(which wasn't even at his waist) for a gun that wasn't there. Also, the Ferguson police force was overtly racist(it's well documented), so if anyone was stoking racism, it was them. What is egregious is completely ignoring that fact. Also, wasn't it perfectly fine for Trump to make statements that completely went against everything his CIA, DOJ, and FBI had found to be 'facts', but when Warren and Harris do it, they're in the wrong? That's hypocrisy If what you say is true, then shouldn't the Ferguson Police Force work on the correcting the problem? Do you know that they haven't? What does it have to do with any other police force? Policing is a local issue. So long as there is a way to get some outside oversight after if/when an incident occurs then we would know the system works....no?
daz28 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: If what you say is true, then shouldn't the Ferguson Police Force work on the correcting the problem? Do you know that they haven't? What does it have to do with any other police force? Policing is a local issue. So long as there is a way to get some outside oversight after if/when an incident occurs then we would know the system works....no? I'm assuming you haven't read any of the report on the Ferguson PD. It's a perfect example of systemic racism, basically the handbook for it. Instead of charging people, they gave them money to resign. America has a problem, and people being mad about kneeling football players isn't going to help a GD thing.
SoCal Deek Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 Just now, daz28 said: I'm assuming you haven't read any of the report on the Ferguson PD. It's a perfect example of systemic racism, basically the handbook for it. Instead of charging people, they gave them money to resign. America has a problem, and people being mad about kneeling football players isn't going to help a GD thing. Huh? I believe I just said that if that department has a problem, it should be corrected. How does that make it, as you say, an "American problem"? Each Police Department (just like any private company) is only as good as the people who work for it, and lead it. The Bills were in the AFC Championship Game this year. The uniforms and logo look pretty much the same as they did a few years back. So what changed? Answer: the people who run the team and wear the uniforms. Nothing more complicated than that. 1
daz28 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Huh? I believe I just said that if that department has a problem, it should be corrected. How does that make it, as you say, an "American problem"? Each Police Department (just like any private company) is only as good as the people who work for it, and lead it. The Bills were in the AFC Championship Game this year. The uniforms and logo look pretty much the same as they did a few years back. So what changed? Answer: the people who run the team and wear the uniforms. Nothing more complicated than that. A New York Times examination after the death of George Floyd found that while black people make up 19 percent of the Minneapolis population and 9 percent of its police, they were on the receiving end of 58 percent of the city’s police use-of-force incidents. A massive study published in May 2020 of 95 million traffic stops by 56 police agencies between 2011 and 2018 found that while black people were much more likely to be pulled over than whites, the disparity lessens at night, when police are less able to distinguish the race of the driver. The study also found that blacks were more likely to be searched after a stop, though whites were more likely to be found with illicit drugs. The darker the sky, the less pronounced the disparity between white and black motorists. The study also found that in states that had legalized marijuana, the racial disparity narrowed but was still significant. An August 2019 study published by the National Academy of Sciences based on police-shooting databases found that between 2013 and 2018, black men were about 2.5 times more likely than white men to be killed by police, and that black men have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying at the hands of police. Black women were 1.4 more times likely to be killed than white women. Latino men were 1.3 to 1.4 times more likely to be killed than white men. Latino women were between 12 percent and 23 percent less likely to be killed than white women. A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. Black motorists also comprised 76 percent of arrests following a traffic stop despite making up 43 percent of the city’s population. It’s worth noting, again, that multiple studies have shown that searches of white motorists are slightly more likely to turn up contraband than searches of black motorists. I could do this all day, or you could just attempt to educate yourself. it's not just this PD or that PD it's rampant and systematic all across the nation. 1
reddogblitz Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 2 hours ago, daz28 said: Does anyone really believe that big Michael Brown thought he could go full Nero from The Matrix from 35 feet away, and dodge all the bullets until he got to the cop? Not to mention his pants had fallen halfway down. So it was basically Nero in a potato sack. He was also supposedly reaching at his waistband(which wasn't even at his waist) for a gun that wasn't there. Also, the Ferguson police force was overtly racist(it's well documented), so if anyone was stoking racism, it was them. What is egregious is completely ignoring that fact. Also, wasn't it perfectly fine for Trump to make statements that completely went against everything his CIA, DOJ, and FBI had found to be 'facts', but when Warren and Harris do it, they're in the wrong? That's hypocrisy You're gonna have to take that up with the Obama/Biden administration and the Eric Holder justice Department. They did a full investigation using forensics, ballistics (you know,science) and eyewitness interviews. They found the "hands up, don't shoot" story to be BS and found insufficient evidence to file charges. Quote Given that Wilson’s account is corroborated by physical evidence and that his perception of a threat posed by Brown is corroborated by other eyewitnesses, to include aspects of the testimony of Witness 101 [Brown’s friend], there is no credible evidence that Wilson willfully shot Brown as he was attempting to surrender or was otherwise not posing a threat. Even if Wilson was mistaken in his interpretation of Brown’s conduct, the fact that others interpreted that conduct the same way as Wilson precludes a determination that he acted with a bad purpose to disobey the law. The same is true even if Wilson could be said to have acted with poor judgment in the manner in which he first interacted with Brown, or in pursuing Brown after the incident at the SUV. These are matters of policy and procedure that do not rise to the level of a Constitutional violation and thus cannot support a criminal prosecution. You can read it here: https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf
daz28 Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: You're gonna have to take that up with the Obama/Biden administration and the Eric Holder justice Department. They did a full investigation using forensics, ballistics (you know,science) and eyewitness interviews. They found the "hands up, don't shoot" story to be BS and found insufficient evidence to file charges. You can read it here: https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf I wasn't trying to make it political. It just doesn't take into account what Michael Brown could have been thinking. There's nothing logical about what they said his actions were. What sounds most logical to me is that he was running, and when he heard bullets whizzing by, he thought better, then turned around to surrender. Saying he decided that he must have thought it was a good idea to turn, and cover 35 feet with his pants falling down to try to get to the guy firing at him makes no sense at all. I'd also guess the cop was terrified, because he had already had to fight MB for his weapon, and wasn't going for round 2 of that, so in that respect I can see how it's justified. We'll never know what really happened. 1
SoCal Deek Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, daz28 said: A New York Times examination after the death of George Floyd found that while black people make up 19 percent of the Minneapolis population and 9 percent of its police, they were on the receiving end of 58 percent of the city’s police use-of-force incidents. A massive study published in May 2020 of 95 million traffic stops by 56 police agencies between 2011 and 2018 found that while black people were much more likely to be pulled over than whites, the disparity lessens at night, when police are less able to distinguish the race of the driver. The study also found that blacks were more likely to be searched after a stop, though whites were more likely to be found with illicit drugs. The darker the sky, the less pronounced the disparity between white and black motorists. The study also found that in states that had legalized marijuana, the racial disparity narrowed but was still significant. An August 2019 study published by the National Academy of Sciences based on police-shooting databases found that between 2013 and 2018, black men were about 2.5 times more likely than white men to be killed by police, and that black men have a 1-in-1,000 chance of dying at the hands of police. Black women were 1.4 more times likely to be killed than white women. Latino men were 1.3 to 1.4 times more likely to be killed than white men. Latino women were between 12 percent and 23 percent less likely to be killed than white women. A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. Black motorists also comprised 76 percent of arrests following a traffic stop despite making up 43 percent of the city’s population. It’s worth noting, again, that multiple studies have shown that searches of white motorists are slightly more likely to turn up contraband than searches of black motorists. I could do this all day, or you could just attempt to educate yourself. it's not just this PD or that PD it's rampant and systematic all across the nation. And you can quote statistics to me all day if you'd like to but the systemic racism fife and drum core have lost their mission statement. If this is really about changing policing, then it should stay there....with policing. Don't try and make it about everything and everyone in America. You also have to know that citing statistics about crime response percentages doesn't take into account the proportion of the crimes themselves. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know there is more street crime committed in poor neighborhoods. So, is the cause of the crime really due to the color of their skin, or is it the thickness of their wallets? If you can alleviate the poverty, you will eliminate a lot of the crime. Statistics can be a tricky thing! Edited February 24, 2021 by SoCal Deek
daz28 Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: And you can quote statistics to me all day if you'd like to but the systemic racism fife and drum core have lost their mission statement. If this is really about changing policing, then it should stay there....with policing. Don't try and make it about everything and everyone in America. You also have to know that citing statistics about crime response percentages doesn't take into account the proportion of the crimes themselves. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know there is more street crime committed in poor neighborhoods. So, is the cause of the crime really due to the color of their skin, or is it the thickness of their wallets? If you can alleviate the poverty, you will eliminate a lot of the crime. Statistics can be a tricky thing! Then by that standard, after the insurrection, the right has no more claim to Democrat socialist ruining America, because no one has gone farther down the craphole than them. I agree the far left goes too far, but were mostly just discussing policing here. it seems that you're starting to understand that socioeconomic status is also a large factor here, too. I certainly can't see how anyone could try to say that humans who left Africa sooner than others are less likely to commit crimes. I think everyone would agree that any humans predisposition to commit crime is not based on how much melanin their skin has. It seems we may agree on this more than we initially thought.
reddogblitz Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 7 hours ago, daz28 said: I wasn't trying to make it political. It just doesn't take into account what Michael Brown could have been thinking. There's nothing logical about what they said his actions were. What sounds most logical to me is that he was running, and when he heard bullets whizzing by, he thought better, then turned around to surrender. Saying he decided that he must have thought it was a good idea to turn, and cover 35 feet with his pants falling down to try to get to the guy firing at him makes no sense at all. I'd also guess the cop was terrified, because he had already had to fight MB for his weapon, and wasn't going for round 2 of that, so in that respect I can see how it's justified. We'll never know what really happened. You make some excellent points. But again the FBI did an exhaustive investigation with many eye witnesses and ballistics and forensics. I have no idea why Brown did anything he did. Why walk in the middle of the street when you know the cops are looking for you cuz the store owner says he wad calling the cops? But since I wasn't there I'm gonna go with the FBI report. I only brought up Obama and Eric Holder cuz these weren't some cracker red necks trying to throw a black dude under the bus. They ran an objective and thorough investigation IMHO.
daz28 Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 35 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: You make some excellent points. But again the FBI did an exhaustive investigation with many eye witnesses and ballistics and forensics. I have no idea why Brown did anything he did. Why walk in the middle of the street when you know the cops are looking for you cuz the store owner says he wad calling the cops? But since I wasn't there I'm gonna go with the FBI report. I only brought up Obama and Eric Holder cuz these weren't some cracker red necks trying to throw a black dude under the bus. They ran an objective and thorough investigation IMHO. Bro, not just walking in the middle of the street, but not even putting the stolen merchandise in your pocket to conceal it? Then mouthing off, then attacking?? That's a Biden; C'mon man. It's almost like Brown was saying, arresting me is not enough officer, I'm begging for you to shoot me. As we've learned since gunpowder has been invented, people are very averse to being shot. Maybe we'll find some lost tapes. One lady did say she recorded it, and gave to police. Not sure if that was true, though. 1
oldmanfan Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 This is a no brainer. Put together a panel of experts in law enforcement, add a few retired Congressmen from both sides of the aisle, and figure out what happened and why, and what needs to be done to stop this from ever happening again. Everything doesn't have to be about political arguing.
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: This is a no brainer. Put together a panel of experts in law enforcement, add a few retired Congressmen from both sides of the aisle, and figure out what happened and why, and what needs to be done to stop this from ever happening again. Everything doesn't have to be about political arguing. If you keep making rational statements and push some common sense approaches you're going to get banned from speaking. Yes, it would make sense to perform a thorough and complete assessment and investigation of all the events that occurred before, during, and after the Jan 6th riots along with motivations and suspected causes. Who was there, what they were doing, how things escalated, why there was no additional security given a known potential risk for violence. Who failed to act, why? etc.. But let's not confuse the search for truth and facts with the desire to put on a political show, reach some per-conceived conclusion, and then take some actions disguised as "protecting democracy" that have the true intention of enacting measures to restrict political and constitutional freedoms. Targeted at the majorities political opposition. Only convenient "facts" will be allowed by the Congressional majority and anything not supporting the already tried and convicted case laid out in the press will be suppressed or disregarded. Its coming, Patriot Act 2.0 from the Committee for Public Safety. 2
SoCal Deek Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: This is a no brainer. Put together a panel of experts in law enforcement, add a few retired Congressmen from both sides of the aisle, and figure out what happened and why, and what needs to be done to stop this from ever happening again. Everything doesn't have to be about political arguing. You know you and I generally agree and we do here as well, but what do you think this panel is going uncover? We all know that this issue is complicated. It’s a classic chicken and egg. Which came first: the systemic poverty or the crime? I’d put it to you that the vast majority of the problem is actually the generational poverty. Solve that problem, and the rest will follow. (And you don’t solve it by importing millions of unskilled workers, breaking up the nuclear family, unionizing the school system, distracting the masses with dreams of reparations, and a whole host of other government/business driven policies that have gotten us where we are.) Edited February 25, 2021 by SoCal Deek
oldmanfan Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You know you and I generally agree and we do here as well, but what do you think this panel is going uncover? We all know that this issue is complicated. It’s a classic chicken and egg. Which came first: the systemic poverty or the crime? I’d put it to you that the vast majority of the problem is actually the generational poverty. Solve that problem, and the rest will follow. (And you don’t solve it by importing millions of unskilled workers, breaking up the nuclear family, unionizing the school system, distracting the masses with dreams of reparations, and a whole host of other government/business driven policies that have gotten us where we are.) We don't know what will be uncovered until you do the investigation.
SoCal Deek Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 Just now, oldmanfan said: We don't know what will be uncovered until you do the investigation. Unfortunately people/elected officials are rarely truly honest in these quasi public investigations. They end up being yet another ‘show trial’ for the cameras and produce a huge report that says basically nothing. But here you and I are free to discuss things, away from the spotlights. So I gave you my hypothesis...what say you?
oldmanfan Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 38 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Unfortunately people/elected officials are rarely truly honest in these quasi public investigations. They end up being yet another ‘show trial’ for the cameras and produce a huge report that says basically nothing. But here you and I are free to discuss things, away from the spotlights. So I gave you my hypothesis...what say you? I say the same. Get people that know about investigations, a few people from both sides of the aisle that are not currently in office and have good reputations, and investigate. I think we can all agree this should never happen again, so let’s find out what we can do to prevent it. You are making a prediction. As one trained in science I want data.
SoCal Deek Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I say the same. Get people that know about investigations, a few people from both sides of the aisle that are not currently in office and have good reputations, and investigate. I think we can all agree this should never happen again, so let’s find out what we can do to prevent it. You are making a prediction. As one trained in science I want data. This isn’t science though. This is an equation with multiple variables, but if you break it down to its essence it originates from poverty, not racism. I’d put it to you that these ‘bad apple’ police officers don’t think of young black men as the great, great, great grandchildren of ex-slaves, but instead simply as future-criminals. It’s ugly but true.
BillStime Posted February 26, 2021 Posted February 26, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 9:45 AM, SoCal Deek said: This isn’t science though. This is an equation with multiple variables, but if you break it down to its essence it originates from poverty, not racism. I’d put it to you that these ‘bad apple’ police officers don’t think of young black men as the great, great, great grandchildren of ex-slaves, but instead simply as future-criminals. It’s ugly but true.
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