The January 6th Commission To Investigate The Insurrection

[BuffaninSarasota]

1 hour ago, Bob in Mich said:

Deek, you have provided a possible explanation. I don’t believe it is the actual reason but thanks for the reply

 

in my view Trump engaged in a multi-pronged attempt to invalidate the election in key states to try to stay in office.  In order,  he used court cases, the calls to the state election officials, and the meetings with state legislators all in unsuccessful attempts to overturn the votes.  Jan 6 was a late game effort to push the key state elector decision back to state legislatures

Look at this - a civil conversation between 2 mature adults w/out name calling, cartoonish memes, or idiotic Twitter references - who could ever have imagined this could happen here on PPP ?

 

You two have temporarily restored my faith in humanity....

[Coffeesforclosers]

50 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

There is definitely some level of political theater at play and the most serious of charges are unlikely to stick in my opinion.  Examples will be made of a few instigators.  That still doesn't make J6 a non-event, a witch hunt, or a form of political persecution as many are desperately claiming.

 

Yup, exactly.

[Bob in Mich]

4 minutes ago, Beach said:

i def didnt say the election was stolen.  i dont know.  but there were plenty of discrepancies i thought needed more looking into.  its weird to me that people can say one way or another that it was or wasnt fair, you are really just trusting a news source for that. 

 

Yes, J6 was chosen for a reason but i really dont think it was to break in and stop the electors.  it seems obvious they would just finish up later like they did.  it was a very small portion of people who went in or did any violence, but for some reason we didnt get the "mostly peaceful" tag. 

 

No, election results may be predicted by news networks, but the official, signed-off results come from state election officials.  It is their duty to certify results.  In all of the states that Trump has contested, the election officials have stated that Trump lost in their states.  It is not an unknowable ‘who gonna believe?’ issue.  

[Beach]

3 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

No, election results may be predicted by news networks, but the official, signed-off results come from state election officials.  It is their duty to certify results.  In all of the states that Trump has contested, the election officials have stated that Trump lost in their states.  It is not an unknowable ‘who gonna believe?’ issue.  

yes, i wanted those contested states to be looked into and i say those election officials didnt want to look into it.  the news really didnt want the election questioned, you couldnt even say those words on twitter, facebook or youtube.  its crazy that you cant even question something without being silenced.  i dont claim the election was stolen i only question it.

[Demongyz]

3 minutes ago, Beach said:

yes, i wanted those contested states to be looked into and i say those election officials didnt want to look into it.  the news really didnt want the election questioned, you couldnt even say those words on twitter, facebook or youtube.  its crazy that you cant even question something without being silenced.  i dont claim the election was stolen i only question it.

The only reason I question the election is because you can't question the election.  That makes me wonder.

[Bob in Mich]

1 minute ago, Beach said:

yes, i wanted those contested states to be looked into and i say those election officials didnt want to look into it.  the news really didnt want the election questioned, you couldnt even say those words on twitter, facebook or youtube.  its crazy that you cant even question something without being silenced.  i dont claim the election was stolen i only question it.

There were recounts done in at least 3 of the contested states with Georgia doing more than one recount.  In all cases where the votes were recounted, Biden’s win was confirmed.

 

Do you realize why so many doubt the election results?  The only reason is because they believe Trump’s accusations or those of his toadies.  There has never been any substantial evidence shown, only Trump’s lie.  There is no real doubt about any state results aside from the doubt Trump has planted.  

 

Today’s hearing had extensive footage of Bill Barr testimony.  Watch it to see that he too told Trump there was no widespread fraud that would alter the results.  Still Trump continued with this lie

[BillStime]

15 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

There were recounts done in at least 3 of the contested states with Georgia doing more than one recount.  In all cases where the votes were recounted, Biden’s win was confirmed.

 

Do you realize why so many doubt the election results?  The only reason is because they believe Trump’s accusations or those of his toadies.  There has never been any substantial evidence shown, only Trump’s lie.  There is no real doubt about any state results aside from the doubt Trump has planted.  

 

Today’s hearing had extensive footage of Bill Barr testimony.  Watch it to see that he too told Trump there was no widespread fraud that would alter the results.  Still Trump continued with this lie

This crowd also thought Mexico would pay for the wall.

 

 

[Andy1]

It was interesting to hear the Trump Election Defense Fund never existed. It was just another scam to suck money from his supporters. He sucked $250 million in small donations from his people with the lie. At this point, they should just give him their bank account numbers and passwords to show their support. 

[Beach]

23 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

There were recounts done in at least 3 of the contested states with Georgia doing more than one recount.  In all cases where the votes were recounted, Biden’s win was confirmed.

 

Do you realize why so many doubt the election results?  The only reason is because they believe Trump’s accusations or those of his toadies.  There has never been any substantial evidence shown, only Trump’s lie.  There is no real doubt about any state results aside from the doubt Trump has planted.  

 

Today’s hearing had extensive footage of Bill Barr testimony.  Watch it to see that he too told Trump there was no widespread fraud that would alter the results.  Still Trump continued with this lie

i dont question how many votes there were for Biden.  I question where those votes came from.  Anyway, i didnt come to debate election results, there is no point. I just wanted to tell you what i saw j6.   Biden is president and everything is great.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

30 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

There were recounts done in at least 3 of the contested states with Georgia doing more than one recount.  In all cases where the votes were recounted, Biden’s win was confirmed.

 

Do you realize why so many doubt the election results?  The only reason is because they believe Trump’s accusations or those of his toadies.  There has never been any substantial evidence shown, only Trump’s lie.  There is no real doubt about any state results aside from the doubt Trump has planted.  

 

Today’s hearing had extensive footage of Bill Barr testimony.  Watch it to see that he too told Trump there was no widespread fraud that would alter the results.  Still Trump continued with this lie

Let’s tell the whole story though, because it matters in context. 
 

Barr has also suggested that what was done to Trump, and by extension to the American people who elected him fairly, was “a grave injustice”, “a political dirty trick”, and most recently, “seditious”.   He further suggested the entire sad saga was designed to “hobble” the President and “drive him from office”. 
 

All of the above is true.  So, when supporters of the other side get all worked up because the “seditious” in Washington are trying, and failing, again to tie Trump to the horrible events of 1/6, it falls completely on deaf ears.  Based on the ratings and lack of national interest in this story, it seems it falls in other deaf ears as well. 
 

Put another way, two things can be true, Bob.  It was entirely possible for DJT to appear at a rally for partisan political purposes, on the day he chose (my belief is he chose Wednesday, 1/6 specifically to steal the thunder away from Biden, crank up the next campaign for the next political cycle, and prepare for the next fight).  It’s is also true that pre-planned and/or spontaneous chaos could occur within a few miles of the rally down the road, and that Trump and his inner circle had nothing to do with it. 

As far as I can tell, liberals were ok with the death by paper cut approach to their version of changing the outcome of the prior election, but really uncomfortable with the “Let’s rip the band aid off” approach Trump employed. 

[BillStime]

13 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Let’s tell the whole story though, because it matters in context. 
 

Barr has also suggested that what was done to Trump, and by extension to the American people who elected him fairly, was “a grave injustice”, “a political dirty trick”, and most recently, “seditious”.   He further suggested the entire sad saga was designed to “hobble” the President and “drive him from office”. 
 

All of the above is true.  So, when supporters of the other side get all worked up because the “seditious” in Washington are trying, and failing, again to tie Trump to the horrible events of 1/6, it falls completely on deaf ears.  Based on the ratings and lack of national interest in this story, it seems it falls in other deaf ears as well. 
 

Put another way, two things can be true, Bob.  It was entirely possible for DJT to appear at a rally for partisan political purposes, on the day he chose (my belief is he chose Wednesday, 1/6 specifically to steal the thunder away from Biden, crank up the next campaign for the next political cycle, and prepare for the next fight).  It’s is also true that pre-planned and/or spontaneous chaos could occur within a few miles of the rally down the road, and that Trump and his inner circle had nothing to do with it. 

As far as I can tell, liberals were ok with the death by paper cut approach to their version of changing the outcome of the prior election, but really uncomfortable with the “Let’s rip the band aid off” approach Trump employed. 

But Trump colluded w Russia - deal with it 

[Tenhigh]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

J6 was 4 years in the making.  It was the culmination of years of reckless behavior.  From the get go he did everything he could to whip his followers into a frenzy. Lock her up, Fake News, embracing QAnon, and it all came home to roost when he spent weeks preparing his base for a "stolen" election before a single ballot was cast.  

 

I highly doubt Trump planned or orchestrated much of anything on J6 and even if he did I doubt it can be proven.  Hes indirectly responsible and that won't hold up in court.  

 

There is definitely some level of political theater at play and the most serious of charges are unlikely to stick in my opinion.  Examples will be made of a few instigators.  That still doesn't make J6 a non-event, a witch hunt, or a form of political persecution as many are desperately claiming.

 

I agree that Trump has been riling his people up for years, too.  Since he really started his 1st presidential run, Trump started getting people whipped into a frenzy, and deserves the lion's share of moral responsibility for the Jan 6 event.  Same with his supporters in Washington.  But he's not the only one that has been sowing the seeds of divide.  What do you think happens when Hillary calls Trump supporters deplorables?  Then claims that the guy they voted for stole the election from her in 2016?  And then 2 years of Russia-gate that ended up with Trump getting off? And CNN going full on attack mode for 4 years?  Is a lot of it on Trump?  Absolutely.  Does everyone else own the fires they have stoked themselves? Of course we do.

 

As for Jan 6, it was an event.  It was a large protest that turned into a riot, with many police and civilians being assaulted.  That mass riot turned into a mass trespassing when some of those idiots stormed the capitol.  And by stormed, some scaled walls and knocked downs barricades, doors, and police to do it.  As for the Jan 6 hearings?  I can't see it as anything beyond political theater at this point.  

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

 

I agree that Trump has been riling his people up for years, too.  Since he really started his 1st presidential run, Trump started getting people whipped into a frenzy, and deserves the lion's share of moral responsibility for the Jan 6 event.  Same with his supporters in Washington.  But he's not the only one that has been sowing the seeds of divide.  What do you think happens when Hillary calls Trump supporters deplorables?  Then claims that the guy they voted for stole the election from her in 2016?  And then 2 years of Russia-gate that ended up with Trump getting off? And CNN going full on attack mode for 4 years?  Is a lot of it on Trump?  Absolutely.  Does everyone else own the fires they have stoked themselves? Of course we do.

 

As for Jan 6, it was an event.  It was a large protest that turned into a riot, with many police and civilians being assaulted.  That mass riot turned into a mass trespassing when some of those idiots stormed the capitol.  And by stormed, some scaled walls and knocked downs barricades, doors, and police to do it.  As for the Jan 6 hearings?  I can't see it as anything beyond political theater at this point.  

J6 was an event with what intended result?

[Bob in Mich]

12 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Let’s tell the whole story though, because it matters in context. 
 

Barr has also suggested that what was done to Trump, and by extension to the American people who elected him fairly, was “a grave injustice”, “a political dirty trick”, and most recently, “seditious”.   He further suggested the entire sad saga was designed to “hobble” the President and “drive him from office”. 
 

All of the above is true.  So, when supporters of the other side get all worked up because the “seditious” in Washington are trying, and failing, again to tie Trump to the horrible events of 1/6, it falls completely on deaf ears.  Based on the ratings and lack of national interest in this story, it seems it falls in other deaf ears as well. 
 

Put another way, two things can be true, Bob.  It was entirely possible for DJT to appear at a rally for partisan political purposes, on the day he chose (my belief is he chose Wednesday, 1/6 specifically to steal the thunder away from Biden, crank up the next campaign for the next political cycle, and prepare for the next fight).  It’s is also true that pre-planned and/or spontaneous chaos could occur within a few miles of the rally down the road, and that Trump and his inner circle had nothing to do with it. 

As far as I can tell, liberals were ok with the death by paper cut approach to their version of changing the outcome of the prior election, but really uncomfortable with the “Let’s rip the band aid off” approach Trump employed. 

Oh pulease!  I find sometimes folks can’t admit the truth because they are too far dug in for far too long.  I believe your desire to maintain your position has cost you your reasoning skills.  Like I have told you before, you are a nicer guy than most here but you still wear the orange robe of the cult.

 

Trump tried to stay in power when he knew he had lost.  He was trying to disenfranchise millions of Biden voters. Do you recall that conversation with Raffensperger of Georgia?  How in the hell could any American justify that attempt ?  That is at the core of our country.

 

There is no equivalency to legal impeachment proceedings.  Had Trump been convicted, his running mate, Pence would take over.  And quit with the unjust scrutiny angle.  Trump has brought scrutiny on himself

[Tenhigh]

Just now, Bob in Mich said:

Oh pulease!  I find sometimes folks can’t admit the truth because they are too far dug in for far too long.  I believe your desire to maintain your position has cost you your reasoning skills.  Like I have told you before, you are a nicer guy than most here but you still wear the orange robe of the cult.

 

Trump tried to stay in power when he knew he had lost.  He was trying to disenfranchise millions of Biden voters. Do you recall that conversation with Raffensperger of Georgia?  How in the hell could any American justify that attempt ?  That is at the core of our country.

 

There is no equivalency to legal impeachment proceedings.  Had Trump been convicted, his running mate, Pence would take over.  And quit with the unjust scrutiny angle.  Trump has brought scrutiny on himself

Maybe if you drop the cult talk you'll get a more reasonable response, Bob.  Just a thought. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Bob in Mich said:

There were recounts done in at least 3 of the contested states with Georgia doing more than one recount.  In all cases where the votes were recounted, Biden’s win was confirmed.

 

Do you realize why so many doubt the election results?  The only reason is because they believe Trump’s accusations or those of his toadies.  There has never been any substantial evidence shown, only Trump’s lie.  There is no real doubt about any state results aside from the doubt Trump has planted.  

 

Today’s hearing had extensive footage of Bill Barr testimony.  Watch it to see that he too told Trump there was no widespread fraud that would alter the results.  Still Trump continued with this lie

We disagree a bit here. I watched the results that night and there was clearly something amiss. Trump was ahead in a few key states and then the vote tally didn’t move for hours. We finally went to bed. I told the family…watch, and see if it doesn’t switch by morning…and sure enough it did. Now, that doesn’t prove anything but it sure as heck looked like those precincts were waiting to see how many votes they needed to sway the results. Biden supporters can tout some 80 million votes but we all know it comes down to only a few thousand in some cherry picked precincts. Stolen, rigged, or not….the election night optics are what fueled the fire! There’s no argument there.

Edited June 13, 2022 by SoCal Deek

[Andy1]

The J 6th mob was a mix of peaceful protesters, rioters and organized paramilitary Proud Boys and others groups. Those paramilitary traitors were on a mission to stop the certification of the election. They were prepared to take hostages or do worse if needed to accomplish a coup. They weren’t there to hear Trump speak. They were at the Capital before the mob got there. Proud Boys were socializing with Trump associates before J 6th. That ugly day was way more than just a bunch of random protesters who got out of control. 

[Tenhigh]

Just now, Andy1 said:

The J 6th mob was a mix of peaceful protesters, rioters and organized paramilitary Proud Boys and others groups. Those paramilitary traitors were on a mission to stop the certification of the election. They were prepared to take hostages or do worse if needed to accomplish a coup. They weren’t there to hear Trump speak. They were at the Capital before the mob got there. Proud Boys were socializing with Trump associates before J 6th. That ugly day was way more than just a bunch of random protesters who got out of control. 

Why weren't the paramilitary groups armed? If they really planned to overturn the election results, wouldn't it have made sense for them to bring guns?

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Andy1 said:

The J 6th mob was a mix of peaceful protesters, rioters and organized paramilitary Proud Boys and others groups. Those paramilitary traitors were on a mission to stop the certification of the election. They were prepared to take hostages or do worse if needed to accomplish a coup. They weren’t there to hear Trump speak. They were at the Capital before the mob got there. Proud Boys were socializing with Trump associates before J 6th. That ugly day was way more than just a bunch of random protesters who got out of control. 

Sounds exactly like the mostly peaceful protestors who gathered to demonstrate in the preceding summer….no? There are forces at work at both ends of the political spectrum trying to tear this country apart from the inside. I’m not much into conspiracy theories but this looks and smells a lot like an ‘outside’ job.

[Bob in Mich]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

We disagree a bit here. I watched the results that night and there was clearly something amiss. Trump was ahead in a few key states and then the vote tally didn’t move for hours. We finally went to bed. I told the family…watch, and see if it doesn’t switch by morning…and sure enough it did. Now, that doesn’t prove anything but it sure as heck looked like this precincts were waiting to see how many they votes they needed to sway the results. Biden supporters can tout some 80 million votes but we all know it comes down to only a few thousand in some cherry picked precincts. Stolen, rigged, or not….the election night optics are what fueled the fire! There’s no argument there.

Yes, there is argument there. What you are describing, the Red Mirage, was discussed at length in today’s hearing. It is a phenomena that is well known - early returns will favor republicans and when the mail in ballots are counted, the Dems will gain ground.  Trump was warned to expect this to happen.  He deliberately ignored the warning and begun to claim this was suspicious.  It was expected