Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, BillsRdue said: I think the fear is that he's had 4 concussions and the cumulative effect is what people are fearing. Personally, if he wants to play and the team clears him to play then we should keep him. I still think he's still a top 10 C. With that said, I'd like Feliciano back at RG Williams at RT and let Ford fight it out with Boettger for LG or go get a mauler in FA and let ford fight it out with Williams at RT with Ford and Boettger as backups. Either way, get competition everywhere and let the best play. I think you're right, the concern is cumulative concussions and "fragility" My problem with the scenario you outline for the line is that it's pretty much trying to improve the OL while keeping it the same. After watching some all-22 myself and every film cutup I can find, I'm pretty well convinced we need an upgrade on the interior of our OL and I'm not persuaded that Ford is an answer to the run game at LG - and speaking of fragility, on the one hand good on him that he toughed it out and played hurt, but on the other hand does playing more games hurt than healthy after 2 seasons mean perhaps he's getting hurt too much? I also think that we need to make up our minds if we want Ford to be a guard or tackle and let him focus I think we need to take our best shot to draft improvement on the OL. I don't see how we could afford to bring back Williams, Feliciano, Boettger, AND sign a mauler. We do have other needs on the team! 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 8 hours ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said: Agreed, I like Morse as our center and a leader for this team. He is an outstanding pass blocker and very good when pulling in the run game (unfortunately, our run scheme this season didn't really play to his strengths). Agreed. Quote To be fair, he is overpaid especially considering his concussion history and was (maybe still is?) the highest paid center in the NFL which is likely where the 'Cut Morse!' people are coming from. I wonder if he would be open to a restructure...if we could free up $3-4 million this season and still keep him, that seems like the ideal situation for me. Nah, no longer highest paid. I don't think that even lasted out that season. He's like 6th in total value and 3rd in average/yr We could free up $3M this season by converting ~$6M of his salary to a signing bonus and splitting it between this year and next year. That would save $3M on this year's cap vs the $4.8M we'd save by cutting him It would also kick the can down the road as far as when we can reasonably move on without paying for it too dearly in dead cap. A lot depends on what kind of run game the Bills want to be able to execute, because you're right he's very good when run blocking in a way that suits his skills If anyone has a memory of watching Russ Bodine play C with Vlad Ducasse playing LG and John Miller at RG 1) you'd have a better metric for what awful center play looks like 2) it'd be very clear that pulling well in the run game is just NOT something every center can handle. 1 1
Rubes Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 I don't recall seeing Beane grab the microphone from Mongo after he said that and yell "Your ass ain't going nowhere!!"
ghostwriter Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: Chris Jones wasn’t noticeable against Tampa because Brady threw 5-yard dump-offs all game. If you want to neutralize Chris Jones, you need to scheme against him (double him; quick passes, etc). We are not going to sign the best guard in the league; can’t have the best player at every position. No doubt. We can’t have A+ talents at every position. Feliciano is not the problem, probably a B to B+ player. He’s a big fat angry SOB and Allen loves him. Wont cost a ton. 1
Estro Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) Spotrac has his value estimated at $8.3M per yr. & given thr coming Cao cut I don't think he'll get that much. In a normal FA yr. maybe he would be able to command $8-9m on the open market, but I don't think it's a smart move to sign an avg. to maybe slightly above avg OG to that type of deal. If he's comfortable in Buffalo, wants to come back, and doesn't want to take on the risk of entering a FA market with a lot of uncertainty I think you're going to see a deal in the $5.5M-$7M range. I think it'll likely be stretched over 3 years so they can get a smaller cap # for this coming year. My guess: 3 years - $19M (up to $22M w/incentives) $6M Signing Bonus, $1M '21 base salary, '21 cap hit of $3M Edited February 13, 2021 by Estro
whatdrought Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, SGA50 said: Feliciano got destroyed in pass-protection down the stretch. If you re-sign him to play C then cut Morse to save 5 mil, that makes sense. This post seems to contradict itself... 1 2
VW82 Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 Give him the money we're about to save from cutting Morse.
ghostwriter Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, Estro said: $5.5M-$7M range. This sounds about right to me. Feliciano is a dog though and Allen loves him. May be closer to the $6.5M-$7.5M range, but likely not much higher than that. Our players and staff love him, and since Feliciano is confident he’ll be back means to me that he will likely get paid. Doesn’t break the bank, we continue to build a dominant line around Allen. Sounds good to me.
machine gun kelly Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Agreed. Nah, no longer highest paid. I don't think that even lasted out that season. He's like 6th in total value and 3rd in average/yr We could free up $3M this season by converting ~$6M of his salary to a signing bonus and splitting it between this year and next year. That would save $3M on this year's cap vs the $4.8M we'd save by cutting him It would also kick the can down the road as far as when we can reasonably move on without paying for it too dearly in dead cap. A lot depends on what kind of run game the Bills want to be able to execute, because you're right he's very good when run blocking in a way that suits his skills If anyone has a memory of watching Russ Bodine play C with Vlad Ducasse playing LG and John Miller at RG 1) you'd have a better metric for what awful center play looks like 2) it'd be very clear that pulling well in the run game is just NOT something every center can handle. You had to bring up Vlad, the Iron Sheik, and crew. 🤬🤭 There is a little overreaction to the Chiefs game. Just focus on the pass pro Josh had all year as he had lots of time to throw those nice deep passes we loved this year. I agree with you Hap, we can’t waste $ in FA on a Guard. The draft makes more sense and sometimes you can find a G in the 3rd or 4th rounds. As far as Ford, they never should’ve placed him at Tackle even if they had a need vs. his natural position all the way back to high school at Guard. He can Duke it out with the potential rookie we draft or Boettger. Only the doctors can inform us whether Morse can still go with those concussions.
End The Drought Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 Why are so many people in this thread suggesting that we cut Morse? He is our 2nd best lineman behind Dawkins. 1
Negan Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 He will sign for a team friendly deal, he loves Allen and Allen loves him 1
Buddo Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 Imho, Spotrac's player 'market values' are likely to be very 'off' in many instances. While the 'elite' players will still get theirs, and those values are probably going to be in the right parish, after that, I'd say all bets are off. Their 'valuations' haven't changed, as far as I can see, from projections pre-covid, and the assumption that the Salary Cap would go up as per usual. Under those circumstances, they would probably not be far off, but we aren't operating under those circumstances. The cap will be a minimum of $175 million, although the rumour mill seems to think it will end up nearer $185 million. Instead of going up by around $10 to $15 million, it will be reducing buy about the same amount. In relation to what teams had theoretically planned for, that's a shortfall of $20 to $30 million. That money has to be both saved, and used, a lot more judiciously, and solid players like a Feliciano, aren't going to command the same value on the open market as years previously. The 'open market' won't be open for very long, and if teams who do have plenty of cap space (there aren't that many), use a bunch of it up on 'big' names, then the mid-tier guys, will be scratching around for crumbs, very quickly.
JMF2006 Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Negan said: He will sign for a team friendly deal, he loves Allen and Allen loves him The Bromance will continue Mine might continue too http://app.e.psentertainment.com/e/es?s=2118877368&e=97904&elqTrackId=78D8A052C380BCBFF284D754BEBE9730&elq=2ba6ecc4356249ec91c90671702ba9cb&elqaid=3120&elqat=1 Edited February 13, 2021 by JMF2006 1
GimmeSomeProcess Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 If it’s a modest contract sure! Anything over 5 mil, no thanks.
Cheektowaga Chad Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 I could definitely see the bills re sign him, cut morse then draft a center/guard early Which allows a bit more flexibility on the line while developing a rookie 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: I could definitely see the bills re sign him, cut morse then draft a center/guard early Which allows a bit more flexibility on the line while developing a rookie I still don't get the "cut Morse" drum so many are beating. Morse is one of the better pass protecting centers in the league and a good technician in the run game (not a mauler). As has been pointed out, if they really need the money they could try to restructure him and save almost as much. Feliciano's best strength is that he's a versatile, durable interior OLman who can backup either side or center at an acceptable level of play against most DL. By cutting Morse and slotting Feliciano in at center, we remove a good pass blocker (our primary offensive focus), don't save much money and <$2M over a restructuring, replace him with a lesser pass blocker (again, our primary offensive focus), and eliminate Feliciano's best strength (versatility). Yeah, Beane, let's get Right On That! 5 3
JMF2006 Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I still don't get the "cut Morse" drum so many are beating. Morse is one of the better pass protecting centers in the league and a good technician in the run game (not a mauler). As has been pointed out, if they really need the money they could try to restructure him and save almost as much. Feliciano's best strength is that he's a versatile, durable interior OLman who can backup either side or center at an acceptable level of play against most DL. By cutting Morse and slotting Feliciano in at center, we remove a good pass blocker (our primary offensive focus), don't save much money and <$2M over a restructuring, replace him with a lesser pass blocker (again, our primary offensive focus), and eliminate Feliciano's best strength (versatility). Yeah, Beane, let's get Right On That! I think the line got better when Morse came back from his concussion, just like the line got better when Mongo came back from his torn Pectoral injury Your right restructuring seems like the best option. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, JMF2006 said: I think the line got better when Morse came back from his concussion, just like the line got better when Mongo came back from his torn Pectoral injury Your right restructuring seems like the best option. Don't get me wrong, I think we need to improve the OL. But given the cap restrictions, it's not like we can go nuts pursuing FA. So keeping who we can, drafting 1-2 good players, but having Plan B in case they need time to develop seems like the best course. 2 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2021 Posted February 13, 2021 Also, I think Feliciano may be "Stirring the Pot" a bit. As one of the responses said: "Wow theyre is no chill in Jon, he just posted himself at center". During the bye week, he posted this: Note the little "devil" after "where I wanna be". Feliciano wasn't shy in interviews at that point about wanting to play center, although he was also very best-behaved about saying "I don't care, I'll play wherever the team needs me, RG, LG, Center". Then there's the bit about thumbs-up'ing Daboll in the coaches' booth after a run play in the Ravens game. On the one hand, nothing wrong with expressing a preference, but also being willing to fill any role you're asked to help the team. On the other hand, the team just dealt with the follow-on from signing Quinton Spain to good money with some guarantees, then having him apparently act up in some way when positional football decisions on the line didn't shake out as he wished. Wondering how the FO and coaches feel about this.
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