Feliciano: "I don't see myself going anywhere else. I see myself as a Bill next year."

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

And his real deficiencies were exposed in the AFCCG when he was easily the worst player in the field.

 

I love his attitude and fore but I don’t know if he’s good enough in pass protection.  I can see moving him to center and cutting Morse, but we’d be replacing a good pass protection C with a crappy pass protection C. It would definitely help the run game though. We need interior lineman that aren’t inept at run blocking and pass blocking.  More balance 

to be fair, Chris Jones is the #2 DT in the league at winning pass rush battles (per the PFF and ESPN pressure stats). Only Donald is better. 

 

I think the better measuring stick for Feliciano is how he has done over the course of the year. 

[warrior9]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that's a reasonable assessment.  Feliciano is an average OLman, maybe a bit above average last year, a bit below average this year.

 

Has Ford actually played RG like, ever?  They tried him at RG the first 2 games this season and liked him there so much that they moved him to LG and brought in Winters after they benched Spain.  Think about that for a minute.

 

I have never said we should "let Morse walk".  First of all, "let walk" usually applies to a FA one doesn't re-sign and Morse is under contract.

 

My position is really quite clear, and if you want to know what it is you could try searching. 

HAHA he really went with "first of all" and tried to play on technicalities.

 

So if we're doing that, instead of talking about Feliciano and much worse he is than Morse. 

 

You also used the term usually.  So usually, yes, the term "let walk" can and will be for not resigning someone. but the term "let walk" can apply to cutting, as well. Why not? If you cut someone, you are quite literally letting them go or some may say "letting walk." 

Edited February 12, 2021 by warrior9

[Ethan in Cleveland]

58 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Cut Morse (the savings is too tough to pass)

 

Feliciano to Center. 

 

Sign Scherff or Thuney.

 

Re-sign Williams 

 

Dawkins--Ford--Feliciano--Scherff/Thuney--Williams

 

Cut Butler and Jefferson.  

 

Let Milano go.  

 

Sign Barrett.  

 

Restructure John Brown and Hughes.   

 

Draft Harris or Etienne.  

 

Draft LBs OG or Center and DBs

 

Continue tweaks.  

 

 

Off season done.  

You copied me! Love it! This would be a near perfect off-season.  Just need to add bring back Bojo and wallace to your list.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

HAHA he really went with "first of all" and tried to play on technicalities.

 

So if we're doing that, instead of talking about Feliciano and much worse he is than Morse. 

 

You also used the term usually.  So usually, yes, the term "let walk" can and will be for not resigning someone. but the term "let walk" can apply to cutting, as well. Why not? If you cut someone, you are quite literally letting them go or some may say "letting walk." 

 

This seems to fascinate you. 

 

Let me help you look past the shiny object capturing your eyes and show you the OL discussion you ignored here:

 

Quote

I think that's a reasonable assessment.  Feliciano is an average OLman, maybe a bit above average last year, a bit below average this year.

 

Has Ford actually played RG like, ever?  They tried him at RG the first 2 games this season and liked him there so much that they moved him to LG and brought in Winters after they benched Spain.  Think about that for a minute.

 

If you tried using the search function selecting "search by name" and search term "Morse", you would find many posts where I have pointed out that Morse is a much better pass blocking center than Feliciano, that plugging Feliciano in at center instead of Morse is not the way to maintain or improve the pass-blocking of our OL, and that "saving cap" of $4.8M by cutting Morse should not be the goal - improving the OL is the goal.

 

But just as I'm not going to throw Morse under the bus with some of the crap people say about him being "useless" in the run game (he's not useless, he's actually a very good run blocker in space, just not a mauler), I'm not going to throw Feliciano under the bus about how "much worse" he is than Morse, or "Feliciano was awful at center this past season" or "what did he do good at center during the Seahawks game"

 

More than one thing can be true, and those are just bad takes.  He wasn't awful, and he did a bunch of good blocking in the Seahawks and Arizona games.  He wasn't as good as Morse, which is why after the bye, Morse went back to center (improving guard play may also have been a factor).

 

I don't view Feliciano as an improvement to Morse at center, nor as a guy to throw a big FA contract at (Spotrac = forgetaboutit) - not based on this past year's play certainly.  But he's a good OLman, and can come in at either guard spot or C pretty seamlessly without a huge fall off, and that's valuable, so I hope they find a way to keep him, while drafting the best C/G they can get and hoping for the best out of Ford.  And I think the injury/off season surgery were a factor for Feliciano not playing as well this season and the Bills appreciate him soldiering through it.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

to be fair, Chris Jones is the #2 DT in the league at winning pass rush battles (per the PFF and ESPN pressure stats). Only Donald is better. 

 

I think the better measuring stick for Feliciano is how he has done over the course of the year. 

That’s fair....but that’s also the reality of our situation.  Chris Jones will likely be standing in our way in the playoffs and we’ll have to deal with him.  He flashed vs tampa but was nowhere near as effective vs them as he was against us.  He made Feliciano look like a toddler.  That’s not a matchup I care to see in the playoffs ever again.  Do you?  If Mongo is playing  center, it changes the dynamic. If he stays at guard, it’s gonna be a lot of the same.  
 

that said, his price tag will likely determine whether or not he stays or goes.  Over 5M aav and we should let him go

Edited February 12, 2021 by NewEra

[Don Otreply]

JF is a quality guy, and he gives the team one less thing to be concerned with, glad to hear him make that clear.

 

Go Bills!!!

[TPS]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

I think the bolder prediction would be to predict Morse to NOT be cut, since that has been the TBD narrative this off-season so far.

 

Personally, I don't see it. I think they keep Morse.

Buscaglia mentioned in that same article, they could restructure by converting most of his 2021 salary to signing bonus, saving almost the same amount if they released him.  This seems the optimal decision.  It would let them groom a draft pick for a year or two to replace him.

[MasterStrategist]

To me, Feliciano is a great "insurance policy".  I don't want him starting anywhere on the OL, but if he's our top backup that's fine.

 

Now that said:

1. Beane and staff need to assess, and figure out if they want him as a backup or starter

2. If backup, they need to carefully look at this team and stop wasting too much money on backup types (ie: Norman, Winters, Murphy, Kroft, other DL guys pick 1).  

 

These cap moves add up to wasting $10-15 mil, per season, and could have been used elsewhere.  

 

If it's my decision, I let Feliciano walk.  Keep Morse at C (restructure salary to bonus), Dawkins at LT, Ford at LG, and either resign Williams or go after a RT in FA.  

 

Then tender Boettger, and keep Bates as your 2 primary backups.  Draft a RG (possible versatility to be future C) with the 1st or 2nd round.  Then go after another OL late as a player to groom.

 

 

[TPS]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

To me, Feliciano is a great "insurance policy".  I don't want him starting anywhere on the OL, but if he's our top backup that's fine.

 

Now that said:

1. Beane and staff need to assess, and figure out if they want him as a backup or starter

2. If backup, they need to carefully look at this team and stop wasting too much money on backup types (ie: Norman, Winters, Murphy, Kroft, other DL guys pick 1).  

 

These cap moves add up to wasting $10-15 mil, per season, and could have been used elsewhere.  

 

If it's my decision, I let Feliciano walk.  Keep Morse at C (restructure salary to bonus), Dawkins at LT, Ford at LG, and either resign Williams or go after a RT in FA.  

 

Then tender Boettger, and keep Bates as your 2 primary backups.  Draft a RG (possible versatility to be future C) with the 1st or 2nd round.  Then go after another OL late as a player to groom.

 

 

It’s actually a good draft to find an RT, one that can come in and start right away. The Bills could trade back into the 35-40 range and find a starter. 

[billsbackto81]

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

My bold prediction is Morse is cut.  Feliciano moves to center.

 

 

7 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

Move him to Center and dump Morse. 

Is Mongo really a better C than G? I've kinda given up on Morse. I think he's soft in run game, push and blocking and is a concussion away from retirement. Mongo has always impressed me at G. His ability to pull along with his mean streak is what this line needs more of. Cut Morse and look into a FA C or draft one. JMO.

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

To me, Feliciano is a great "insurance policy".  I don't want him starting anywhere on the OL, but if he's our top backup that's fine.

 

Now that said:

1. Beane and staff need to assess, and figure out if they want him as a backup or starter

2. If backup, they need to carefully look at this team and stop wasting too much money on backup types (ie: Norman, Winters, Murphy, Kroft, other DL guys pick 1).  

 

These cap moves add up to wasting $10-15 mil, per season, and could have been used elsewhere.  

 

If it's my decision, I let Feliciano walk.  Keep Morse at C (restructure salary to bonus), Dawkins at LT, Ford at LG, and either resign Williams or go after a RT in FA.  

 

Then tender Boettger, and keep Bates as your 2 primary backups.  Draft a RG (possible versatility to be future C) with the 1st or 2nd round.  Then go after another OL late as a player to groom.

 

 

Mongo's the best G on the team and sounds like he's going to be reasonable. Why let him walk?

[without a drought]

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So Feliciano wasn't good in run blocking and is a terrible pass blocker yet he's going to receive a nice contract somewhere....

 

Maybe Brian Winters will get about $6 million a year as well?  He's also a bad back blocker and run blocker.

I can't run or pass block either, do you think I have a chance at a couple mil?

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said:

 

Is Mongo really a better C than G? I've kinda given up on Morse. I think he's soft in run game, push and blocking and is a concussion away from retirement. Mongo has always impressed me at G. His ability to pull along with his mean streak is what this line needs more of. Cut Morse and look into a FA C or draft one. JMO.

Mongo's the best G on the team and sounds like he's going to be reasonable. Why let him walk?

Morse is still very good.  He is not a mauler, but is excellent pass blocking and elite movement/open space blocking.  We could be using more screen game, pulling him in space if we had a quicker RB. But that is all fine, since he's here to protect Josh and we are a pass first offense. Understand his concussion history, but every player is 1 misstep or 1 play away from serious injury.  

 

As far as Feliciano being the best guard, I think that honor goes to Ford.  Not saying a ton at this point, but he's the most talented and if he can stay healthy he will be real good 

[TheBeaneBandit]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This seems to fascinate you. 

 

Let me help you look past the shiny object capturing your eyes and show you the OL discussion you ignored here:

 

 

If you tried using the search function selecting "search by name" and search term "Morse", you would find many posts where I have pointed out that Morse is a much better pass blocking center than Feliciano, that plugging Feliciano in at center instead of Morse is not the way to maintain or improve the pass-blocking of our OL, and that "saving cap" of $4.8M by cutting Morse should not be the goal - improving the OL is the goal.

 

But just as I'm not going to throw Morse under the bus with some of the crap people say about him being "useless" in the run game (he's not useless, he's actually a very good run blocker in space, just not a mauler), I'm not going to throw Feliciano under the bus about how "much worse" he is than Morse, or "Feliciano was awful at center this past season" or "what did he do good at center during the Seahawks game"

 

More than one thing can be true, and those are just bad takes.  He wasn't awful, and he did a bunch of good blocking in the Seahawks and Arizona games.  He wasn't as good as Morse, which is why after the bye, Morse went back to center (improving guard play may also have been a factor).

 

I don't view Feliciano as an improvement to Morse at center, nor as a guy to throw a big FA contract at (Spotrac = forgetaboutit) - not based on this past year's play certainly.  But he's a good OLman, and can come in at either guard spot or C pretty seamlessly without a huge fall off, and that's valuable, so I hope they find a way to keep him, while drafting the best C/G they can get and hoping for the best out of Ford.  And I think the injury/off season surgery were a factor for Feliciano not playing as well this season and the Bills appreciate him soldiering through it.

Extremely well said. I'm 100% on board with either a top 3 round selection on the Oline or even bringing in a Forrest Lamp type who is just ready to come into his own.

[SoCal Deek]

Could Mongo's comment be pre-emptive? Could he know he's on the chopping block, and simply wants to tell his employer that he's fine right where he is? 

[Bob in STL]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

And his real deficiencies were exposed in the AFCCG when he was easily the worst player in the field.

 

I love his attitude and fore but I don’t know if he’s good enough in pass protection.  I can see moving him to center and cutting Morse, but we’d be replacing a good pass protection C with a crappy pass protection C. It would definitely help the run game though. We need interior lineman that aren’t inept at run blocking and pass blocking.  More balance 

True.  Although his pass protection was only bad one game, otherwise he was effective.  Unfortunately it was the biggest game and he had to take on the 2nd best DT in the NFL.  
 

We ran better when he was at center.  He is a great teammate that is driven.  Release Morse,  put  some of the savings on Feliciano. He is not a player that breaks the bank but you get everything he has.  

Edited February 13, 2021 by Bob in STL

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, without a drought said:

I can't run or pass block either, do you think I have a chance at a couple mil?

I will be your agent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Could Mongo's comment be pre-emptive? Could he know he's on the chopping block, and simply wants to tell his employer that he's fine right where he is? 

 

He's not on the chopping block, he's a FA

 

I think it might be "pre-emptive" in that he's saying he's receptive, "make me an offer"

11 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

True.  Although his pass protection was only bad one game, otherwise he was effective. 

 

Don't agree.  Chargers game for one.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

That’s fair....but that’s also the reality of our situation.  Chris Jones will likely be standing in our way in the playoffs and we’ll have to deal with him.  He flashed vs tampa but was nowhere near as effective vs them as he was against us.  He made Feliciano look like a toddler.  That’s not a matchup I care to see in the playoffs ever again.  Do you?  If Mongo is playing  center, it changes the dynamic. If he stays at guard, it’s gonna be a lot of the same.  
 

that said, his price tag will likely determine whether or not he stays or goes.  Over 5M aav and we should let him go

Chris Jones wasn’t noticeable against Tampa because Brady threw 5-yard dump-offs all game.  If you want to neutralize Chris Jones, you need to scheme against him (double him; quick passes, etc). We are not going to sign the best guard in the league; can’t have the best player at every position. 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Chris Jones wasn’t noticeable against Tampa because Brady threw 5-yard dump-offs all game.  If you want to neutralize Chris Jones, you need to scheme against him (double him; quick passes, etc). We are not going to sign the best guard in the league; can’t have the best player at every position. 

There’s a big difference between signing the best guard in the league and Feliciano, a guy who got completely obliterated in the biggest game of the year and then made a fool of himself 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

6 hours ago, warrior9 said:

He played 16 games 2 years ago and 14 last year. 

He's had 5 holding penalties in 2 years. 

He allowed 1 sack this year. 

 

I don't think his price tag is really that bad. If the FO sees fit, restructure.  Again, I don't LOVE Morse but Feliciano is not a better option and Morse was not our issue last year. You don't get better by cutting a 28 year old who has allowed 2 sacks in 2 years. 

I think the fear is that he's had 4 concussions and the cumulative effect is what people are fearing. Personally, if he wants to play and the team clears him to play then we should keep him. I still think he's still a top 10 C.  

 

With that said, I'd like Feliciano back at RG Williams at RT and let Ford fight it out with Boettger for LG or go get a mauler in FA and let ford fight it out with Williams at RT with Ford and Boettger as backups. Either way, get competition everywhere and let the best play.