Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, warrior9 said: Seattle had the worst defense in the league. Can you document that as of the week we played them? They finished #15, both for points and for NY/A passing. IIRC they were worse for passing D when we played them but not "worst in the league"; however, I don't want to do your homework to refute the stuff you have no problem saying without anything to back it up. 2 minutes ago, warrior9 said: Arizona was without their starting 2 IDL. For this to be relevant, you would need to assess what key defensive players every other team we played might have been missing
Royale with Cheese Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That depends right? on what kind of run game the Bills want to run. It's not a podcast, but if you haven't watched it I STRONGLY recommend you watch the Cover1 "glaring run game" issues piece. It's long, I think you'll find it enlightening. The first thing of note is that last year, when we were running somewhat more successfully, we were primarily a gap run team (pin and pull). We became a zone run team this year. What does Daboll really want us to be? Morse is one of the best pass blocking centers in the league. Let's walk through the logic here: 1) The Bills became a pass-heavy team this season 2) As long as Josh Allen stays healthy and on-point, we will remain that 3) We want to improve our run blocking so that our run game becomes more effective and efficient - not so that it supplants our pass game 4) Therefore we should cut our good pass blocking center and replace him with a center who is significantly worse in the pass game and better in a specific style of run blocking (which we may or may not want to execute) Makes sense? 🤔 As I’ve stated before, I’m not for or banging the table to cut him. Its just a prediction. I think they want more push from our interior and Feliciano gives more push than Morse. They were too one dimensional last year. Just an opinion. 1
warrior9 Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Can you document that as of the week we played them? They finished #15, both for points and for NY/A passing. IIRC they were worse for passing D when we played them but not "worst in the league"; however, I don't want to do your homework to refute the stuff you have no problem saying without anything to back it up. For this to be relevant, you would need to assess what key defensive players every other team we played might have been missing #1 Yes. #2. Go for it. If you don’t understand that what I’m saying is using those 2 teams as an assessment to say were better with Feliciano at center is absurd. Even the coaching staff saw something after Arizona and Seattle to say “Welp, we’re better with Morse.” Edited February 12, 2021 by warrior9
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: As I’ve stated before, I’m not for or banging the table to cut him. Its just a prediction. I think they want more push from our interior and Feliciano gives more push than Morse. They were too one dimensional last year. Just an opinion. I agree that they want more push but I think they'll take the long view and look to draft and develop a guy vs. sacrificing pass pro for incremental gains. They can have a more effective run game using Morse to his strengths, it just depends upon what kind of run game they want. 10 minutes ago, warrior9 said: #1 Yes. Great, do so please. Quote #2. Go for it. If you don’t understand that what I’m saying is using those 2 teams as an assessment to say were better with Feliciano at center is absurd. I understand what you're saying, I'm simply pointing out that the offensive results in the games you mention do not support what you are saying, and that pointing at missing pieces for one game doesn't exactly support your argument unless you go through and document which teams (with claimed better offensive results) were or weren't missing pieces. IOW it's a weak argument to support your claims, and the way to show otherwise is with evidence, not with looking down your nose "if you don't understand...." I understand. I think you're factually incorrect. Pointing out there's a reason why Morse got his job back after the bye does not support your claim that Quote The underestimate that we were a MUCH better offense with Morse in games and it wasn't close. either.
NewEra Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I've said this before, but whether that's true depends upon what style of run game the Bills want to run. Morse can be a good run blocker in space - a very good run blocker in space - but not if you want to run a power game. Feliciano is more power but can get beat by stunts in the rungame (and the pass game). There's a bunch of stuff in the Cover1 video that surprised me. I'm working my way through the film to see for myself if they cherry-picked and so far I'd say "no". Feliciano wasn't as good at run blocking as his reputation. What I don't know, is how Mongo's off-season surgery last year contributed to his torn pec and to his blocking struggles once he came back. He said in one interview that he hadn't been blocking well this season. I don't think we appreciate that if a guy is working back from injury and playing with painkillers, that may affect his speed and reflexes. If they think a healthy off season will let him raise his game, that could be good. So maybe the answer lies in which type of run schem we plan on employing next year? Seems like they might be a poor fit playing side by side? I’d hate to lose Morse’s pass blocking, but how long will he be around? He could be one concussion away from retirement
CaptnCoke11 Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 He’s ok. Wouldn’t be throwing out big money for him.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 1 minute ago, NewEra said: So maybe the answer lies in which type of run schem we plan on employing next year? Seems like they might be a poor fit playing side by side? I’d hate to lose Morse’s pass blocking, but how long will he be around? He could be one concussion away from retirement I think that's a lot of it, sure - what run game do they WANT to run? I think Morse and Feliciano did better side-by-side in 2019. The other unknown piece is how much they believe Feliciano's limited off-season and pec surgery compromised his blocking when he did come back this season. The whole concussion thing is a big question. 1
NewEra Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, warrior9 said: The underestimate that we were a MUCH better offense with Morse in games and it wasn't close. You protect the passer? Morse is exponentially better at pass blocking that Feliciano. I hear ya. The problem with keeping Morse is his health and ineffective run blocking. If we keep him, our backup C is vital, but can we keep Morse and Feliciano playing together? If we choose one, than we have to invest in a backup C too, likely drafting morse’s replacement. I just hope we make some changes along the OL. Maybe Williams has to go? Idk.....i just know that our run game has to improve or we’ll suffer the same fate as this year. Let’s hope Beane can work some magic
YoloinOhio Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: Pssst hey big guy isn’t that up to Beane? /shade If you read what he said, he didn’t indicate that he was confident they would sign him. It was more that he was staying positive, he wants to be here, he thinks they want the same thing, but he’s picturing himself as a Bill because he’s optimistic.
ghostwriter Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 Good player. You can say what you want about the AFC Championship game but make no bones about it we run the ball better with Feliciano in there. 9 minutes ago, NewEra said: I hear ya. The problem with keeping Morse is his health and ineffective run blocking. If we keep him, our backup C is vital, but can we keep Morse and Feliciano playing together? If we choose one, than we have to invest in a backup C too, likely drafting morse’s replacement. I just hope we make some changes along the OL. Maybe Williams has to go? Idk.....i just know that our run game has to improve or we’ll suffer the same fate as this year. Let’s hope Beane can work some magic Think Feliciano would do very well at center.
GunnerBill Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: Good player. You can say what you want about the AFC Championship game but make no bones about it we run the ball better with Feliciano in there. Think Feliciano would do very well at center. I actually think Feliciano is a better center than he is a guard from the bits I have seen of him there. The issue is whether he is the right center for this offense that is going to be pass first.
JaCrispy Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Interesting.... if it does get done I wonder what other moves they make to upgrade the interior line... they might feel with Ford and Feliciano that they are all set on the interior...should be interesting to see if they bring in competition for Ford...
ghostwriter Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I actually think Feliciano is a better center than he is a guard from the bits I have seen of him there. The issue is whether he is the right center for this offense that is going to be pass first. I think he is a slightly above average pass blocker, it’s not like he’s terrible. Obviously when he is in, we can run and when he’s not in, we can’t run. I think having a road grading center can set the tone for the rest of the OL. Add a few road graders in the draft to challenge Ford and hopefully our line is more balanced. 1
Rubes Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: I think he is a slightly above average pass blocker, it’s not like he’s terrible. Obviously when he is in, we can run and when he’s not in, we can’t run. I think having a road grading center can set the tone for the rest of the OL. Add a few road graders in the draft to challenge Ford and hopefully our line is more balanced. Is it really that obvious? I never felt very confident in our ability to run the ball no matter who was in there.
warrior9 Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Great, do so please. Google.com. “I’m not going to do your homework for you.” I know the answer Just to help a little, NYJ were allowing 35 ppg and Seattle 30.8 .. The second worst at the time. Edited February 12, 2021 by warrior9
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 48 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: they might feel with Ford and Feliciano that they are all set on the interior...should be interesting to see if they bring in competition for Ford... That would be a case of trying to improve something by keeping it the same I believe. I've been thinking a lot about what my preferred scenario would be. If we can re-sign Mongo reasonably - something along the line of 3 years, $15-16M, about $5-6M guaranteed - I think he's the competition at center and both guard spots, the guy who is ready to step in and play competently if anyone on the interior doesn't show out, as well as the insurance policy if either Ford or Morse go out (which anyone looking at injury history has to regard as probable). We have Bates under contract who came in and played competently for Dawkins at LT a couple times IIRC, so he's the backup OT if he can play both sides. Then I think we draft a C/G reasonably high, who we expect to compete to start at a guard position this year Unknowns to me are how much they like Boettger, whether they think he can play either side at guard, whether they think Bates can be a swing tackle or is he backup LT/Center, what they see from career journeyman Jordan Devey who they consistently protected this season and who they re-up'd for a year? Underneath Beane's waffling do they really see Ford as an option at RT or have they moved on and now see him at LG? He wasn't very good in run blocking at LG from what I saw, so if they do see him at LG what role did injury play in that? If they want to keep trying Ford at LT, then they probably keep Boettger for additional guard competition as well as looking for this year's Williams equivalent. Frankly too many unknowns for me to wrap my head around, but I do think we need to look hard for an upgrade on OL. 9 minutes ago, Rubes said: Is it really that obvious? I never felt very confident in our ability to run the ball no matter who was in there. If the assertion is "when Feliciano is in at Center, we can run and when he's not in, we can't run", No, it's not obvious. 3 of our best rushing games (Chargers, Broncos, 2nd Patriots) featured Morse at center. If the assertion is that putting Feliciano on the OL (at some position) correlated to an uptick in run game, OK
MJS Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: My bold prediction is Morse is cut. Feliciano moves to center. We sign at least one guard in FA/or draft one high that's starting material, I would think probably a bigger body guard. Ford/Boettger/FA/Draft pick battle for two starting spots. I think the bolder prediction would be to predict Morse to NOT be cut, since that has been the TBD narrative this off-season so far. Personally, I don't see it. I think they keep Morse.
Rubes Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If the assertion is "when Feliciano is in at Center, we can run and when he's not in, we can't run", No, it's not obvious. 3 of our best rushing games (Chargers, Broncos, 2nd Patriots) featured Morse at center. If the assertion is that putting Feliciano on the OL (at some position) correlated to an uptick in run game, OK My sense is that we were better with Morse and Feliciano in, rather than Morse and Winters or Feliciano and Winters. To me, Winters was the big problem solved when Feliciano came back. It's not that Feliciano or Morse specifically made the run game better, it was putting Winters on the bench that probably did it. Edited February 12, 2021 by Rubes
Back2Buff Posted February 12, 2021 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Feliciano was awful at center this past season. He was actually average at guard too. He was really good his first year here, but when we played better d lineman this year, he wasn't as good. I'm absolutely not cutting Morse for Feliciano to play center. Morse was really solid this year. Also, it is a no brainer to convert Morse's salary to a bonus and it saves 3 million on cap this year. Edited February 12, 2021 by Back2Buff
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