NewEra Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: If Ford could play Right Tackle, this would solve a lot of problems. Could let Williams walk and bringing back Feliciano would be no brainer. There’s just one problem with this. Ford sucks at RT even worse than he sucks at LG. 3
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: You beat me to it. There has been such an overreaction to one game, and that game was only you know the Championship game against a team that won the SB last year. Now the other night I was nodding off to late hits on NFLR with Mr. Polian. That’s the only night of the week I’ll put it on for a few as he makes very interesting points. He stated what a lot of people think. The one directive with this odd season was to hold back on holding calls to escalate scoring and more interesting offensive play. That is except the SB. As a result, I don’t know if our pass pro was that excellent, or we benefited from refs friendly offensive line play. Probably some of both. Then a Bills fan called in and asked Polian about Feliciano. His response summarized is the ability to play efficiently play both Center and Guard means Mongo is incredibly smart. He also said he saw improvement in our line play when Feliciano came back from injury. He wasn’t necessarily inferring to extend him at top pay, but he did say it would be a loss to our team by not working with his agent for a reasonable contract. That’s just one person, but he is in the HOF. He did say if he tries to outprice himself this year with the issues in the cap, he’s going to make even less $ potentially from another team. Bottom line is Feliciano is taking a big risk if he pushes too hard on top $ in 2021. He’d help himself more if he took a 1 yr. extension with us, play well, and try again next year on a longer deal. Morse restructuring is smart and can partially be used on either Feliciano or Williams. If they really want to try and upgrade, they would be smart to do so in the draft in a mid round pick. Cheap labor, but a gamble he’s an upgrade from our current talent. I think I know, but just to clarify: what part of that last 3 para's is you and what is Polian? One of the first things both McDermott and Beane always say when asked about Feliciano is "intelligent" "he's very smart" "his football intelligence is very high" etc etc. I dunno about "mid round pick" We don't have a 4th rounder and 5th round is a bit late IMO. I would like to see the Bills invest a fairly high pick in an OLman. 16 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: If Ford could play Right Tackle, this would solve a lot of problems. Could let Williams walk and bringing back Feliciano would be no brainer. It would, but I hope that's not Beane's plan. Let's hypothesize, best case, that we haven't really seen the best out of Ford due to injuries, and that he really can play RT in the NFL (just work with me here). Then what's the plan when Ford gets injured again? Because when the GM states that a guy going into his 3rd year "has played more games injured than healthy", that IS the question that has to be asked. IMHO, the best thing the Bills could do for Ford's development is decide what they think he is, stick him there, and let him "rut hog or die" at that position.
Back2Buff Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 I think Feliciano is going to find out quickly, his view of himself is a lot higher than what other teams think. To me, he isn't much different than what we signed him for 2 years ago (2 years 7 million). At the time he was viewed as a low end starter, backup versatile lineman. Same situation now, but with more injuries
YoloinOhio Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 21 minutes ago, Back2Buff said: I think Feliciano is going to find out quickly, his view of himself is a lot higher than what other teams think. To me, he isn't much different than what we signed him for 2 years ago (2 years 7 million). At the time he was viewed as a low end starter, backup versatile lineman. Same situation now, but with more injuries I somewhat agree, though OL is such a thin group collectively across the league, many teams don’t have 5 starting caliber guys at any given time out there. So I see him as starting caliber but replaceable level. And that might be good enough to get a decent contract
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Back2Buff said: I think Feliciano is going to find out quickly, his view of himself is a lot higher than what other teams think. Please provide us with your insight: what is Feliciano's view of himself? Quote To me, he isn't much different than what we signed him for 2 years ago (2 years 7 million). At the time he was viewed as a low end starter, backup versatile lineman. Same situation now, but with more injuries When Feliciano was signed, he was viewed as a backup C/G with some injury concerns (he finished his last 2 seasons in Oak on IR) He started 17 games in 2019 at RG, including sliding over to C during two games. He started 12 games after coming off IR in 2020. His play was generally capable. If that doesn't change how you view Feliciano, you're probably not aligned with the general viewpoint around the league. When a guy has shown he can start 17 and 12 games on a championship-level team, it puts him in a different light than when a guy has started 3, 0, 1, and 4 games in 4 seasons. Jon is going to want a bit more, because having proven himself as a full-season starter can and should improve his value. Now, if he wants what Spotrac values him at....4 years, $33.5M or $8.4M/yr...I think that's overvaluing him somewhat, just as I think Spotrac undervalues Daryl Williams. It's basically paying Mongo like a #15 (middle of the pack) C or a top-10 (albeit bottom, #8 or #9) RG. He currently slots in as the #16 paid RG (OL position that pays lower than C or LG). I think he expects, and will get, a nice raise, with the devil in the details of how much is guaranteed. My thinking would be something along the lines of 3 years, $7M/yr with $9-10M guaranteed, or something like that. That would give him props as a top-10 overall contract RG, top-10 average/yr, and just outside top-10 for guaranteed $$. I don't think he's quite top-10, so this would be paying him a premium for his positional flexibility and proven ability to fill-in relatively seamlessly at C, worth it IMO, without locking the Bills in from an upgrade if we draft a guy who develops. I guess we'll see. 1
Rubes Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He currently slots in as the #16 paid RG (OL position that pays lower than C or LG). I think he expects, and will get, a nice raise, with the devil in the details of how much is guaranteed. My thinking would be something along the lines of 3 years, $7M/yr with $9-10M guaranteed, or something like that. That would give him props as a top-10 overall contract RG, top-10 average/yr, and just outside top-10 for guaranteed $$. I don't think he's quite top-10, so this would be paying him a premium for his positional flexibility and proven ability to fill-in relatively seamlessly at C, worth it IMO, without locking the Bills in from an upgrade if we draft a guy who develops. I guess we'll see. I pretty much agree with this sentiment. Seems like a fairly reasonable contract for a guy with his skills, flexibility, and consistency, even if we could overall do better at that position.
machine gun kelly Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think I know, but just to clarify: what part of that last 3 para's is you and what is Polian? One of the first things both McDermott and Beane always say when asked about Feliciano is "intelligent" "he's very smart" "his football intelligence is very high" etc etc. I dunno about "mid round pick" We don't have a 4th rounder and 5th round is a bit late IMO. I would like to see the Bills invest a fairly high pick in an OLman. It would, but I hope that's not Beane's plan. Let's hypothesize, best case, that we haven't really seen the best out of Ford due to injuries, and that he really can play RT in the NFL (just work with me here). Then what's the plan when Ford gets injured again? Because when the GM states that a guy going into his 3rd year "has played more games injured than healthy", that IS the question that has to be asked. IMHO, the best thing the Bills could do for Ford's development is decide what they think he is, stick him there, and let him "rut hog or die" at that position. Hap, he’s on some weeks on T night, and some nights W night. Listen for yourself. I did try and summarize as best as possible, but feel free to edit. I’m not in the habit of creating fake news. He was pretty fair balanced in a valuable player, but not we have to keep him at any rate. They do store those shows for a couple of days if you have NFLR.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said: Hap, he’s on some weeks on T night, and some nights W night. Listen for yourself. I did try and summarize as best as possible, but feel free to edit. I’m not in the habit of creating fake news. He was pretty fair balanced in a valuable player, but not we have to keep him at any rate. They do store those shows for a couple of days if you have NFLR. I wasn't accusing you of creating fake news, just asking you to clarify what part of what you posted was Polian's take, and what part (if any) was yours? I don't like to ASSuMe, and I thought it was ambiguous. Part I'm asking about: Quote Then a Bills fan called in and asked Polian about Feliciano. His response summarized is the ability to play efficiently play both Center and Guard means Mongo is incredibly smart. He also said he saw improvement in our line play when Feliciano came back from injury. He wasn’t necessarily inferring to extend him at top pay, but he did say it would be a loss to our team by not working with his agent for a reasonable contract. That’s just one person, but he is in the HOF. He did say if he tries to outprice himself this year with the issues in the cap, he’s going to make even less $ potentially from another team. Bottom line is Feliciano is taking a big risk if he pushes too hard on top $ in 2021. He’d help himself more if he took a 1 yr. extension with us, play well, and try again next year on a longer deal. Morse restructuring is smart and can partially be used on either Feliciano or Williams. If they really want to try and upgrade, they would be smart to do so in the draft in a mid round pick. Cheap labor, but a gamble he’s an upgrade from our current talent. Part I italicized seems pretty clear to be Polian's view, just wasn't clear about the rest.
machine gun kelly Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) As I stated all of it was his opinion and was on demand, not sure which night this past week. Either Tuesday or Wednesday. I did paraphrase, but did not insert my thoughts as I would have said this is my opinion. He’s worth listening for a few minutes on his show as he has interesting opinions on various teams. It is fun to call in and for the couple of times I have done it, I would just ask his opinion on a Bills point. Edited March 7, 2021 by machine gun kelly 1
Estro Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 He was on Matt Parrino's pod last night.....and I didn't think he sounded all that optimistic that he'll be back. Like another poster stated I think theres angap between what Feliciano thinks he's worth and where the Bills value him. Mike Ginitti from Spotrac seemed to think In order for the Bills to retain Feliciano they may have to cut Morse......and I'm jist not sure I like that idea. I think Feliciano is maybe a little better than replacement level, and I don't think thr Bills can afford $7M a yr for that type of player. Add in a glut of vet FA G's that have been (Gabe Jackson, Incognito) released and those that'll be let go this coming week & I think you may be able to find a 1 yr deal on one of those guys for $3.5-$5M. I really believe the 2nd wave of FA is going to be a total buyers market and you might get some guys for 60-70 cents on the dollar compared to a normal FA yr.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 On 3/6/2021 at 9:12 AM, Rubes said: Which, I imagine, is why he has expressed his desire to stay in Buffalo. Avoid the risk that comes with FA and get a deal done now—probably a better deal than he'd get on the market. The Bills gets continuity, probably at some discount. The question is if the Bills think he's the best solution for the position and price. I think they like his versatility and will try to keep him at a reasonable price, and Feliciano will probably take it. I agree with @Limeaid: I'm a bit confused on how Feliciano gets a better deal than he'd get on the market, while the Bills get some discount.
Aussie Joe Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, Estro said: He was on Matt Parrino's pod last night.....and I didn't think he sounded all that optimistic that he'll be back. Like another poster stated I think theres angap between what Feliciano thinks he's worth and where the Bills value him. Yeah I got the feeling that he didn’t seem overly happy.. I wonder if they have even made him an offer as yet... they might just be sitting back at the moment as there looks like there are going to be a lot of G to choose from...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Estro said: He was on Matt Parrino's pod last night.....and I didn't think he sounded all that optimistic that he'll be back. Things have changed from a couple months back when he was on the podcast that started this thread. 4 minutes ago, Estro said: Like another poster stated I think theres angap between what Feliciano thinks he's worth and where the Bills value him. I think you're probably right. Then the question will be "is there a gap between what Feliciano thinks he's worth and where other teams value him? I'm not quite sure how Spotrac came up with the "market value" they did of 4 years, $33.4M or $8.43M/year
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Yeah I got the feeling that he didn’t seem overly happy.. I wonder if they have even made him an offer as yet... they might just be sitting back at the moment as there looks like there are going to be a lot of G to choose from... When he tweeted: I said to myself, "Uh, Oh". Because that may be true, but on the other hand, it's also true that there were times when Jon got beaten like a drum and a sack was avoided because Josh Allen is fleet of foot, stiff of arm, and able to escape one way or another. 2
delirious Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: When he tweeted: I said to myself, "Uh, Oh". Because that may be true, but on the other hand, it's also true that there were times when Jon got beaten like a drum and a sack was avoided because Josh Allen is fleet of foot, stiff of arm, and able to escape one way or another. Don't think it looks good either. I said "Uh, oh" during (I think it was) the Superbowl where he made a tweet insuating the Bucs won because they ran the ball. Or something along those lines. 1
Boxcar Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: When he tweeted: I said to myself, "Uh, Oh". Because that may be true, but on the other hand, it's also true that there were times when Jon got beaten like a drum and a sack was avoided because Josh Allen is fleet of foot, stiff of arm, and able to escape one way or another. Yeah, if he's playing in front of, idk, Drew Brees or something, that number is more than 0. Josh is probably better than any other QB in the game outside maybe Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes when the pocket collapses.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, delirious said: Don't think it looks good either. I said "Uh, oh" during (I think it was) the Superbowl where he made a tweet insuating the Bucs won because they ran the ball. Or something along those lines. During the Ravens game where the Bills weren't running, Feliciano made a big point of thumb's-up'ing the coach's booth after a run play. I wondered how that went over with Daboll, especially after he made that tweet you're referring to - it was something like "nice to see a team winning the championship by running the ball". Then there was a little bit of salt during the bye week - he posted a pic of him playing center captioned "where I want to be" with a 😈 symbol - could be taken as "I want to be back on the field" or "I want to be playing center". McDermott and Beane have been open about saying the Bills need to upgrade their run game, but as long as Josh is slingin' the rock all over the field to a quality WR corps, we're going to be a pass heavy team and that's just how it is. The Bills just had a situation last year where they extended Quinton Spain and then had him apparently get unhappy about his role on the team when they were shifting guys around and he got benched. We've still got dead money from that on the books. So I could see them being perhaps a bit gun-shy about "if we extend you with some nice guaranteed money, are you gonna take it public if you don't like the play calling, or the role we ask you to take, or whatever it is this week?" Thing is, that's not at all my impression of Feliciano - I think he's a team guy who will do whatever he's asked to do to help the team win, but he's kind of leaving different "feels" out there. I know that McDermott loves competitive players who have a bit of an "attitude" to them, but I'm pretty sure he also feels there's a right and a wrong time and manner to express that edge and that attitude. It's not like Feliciano's run blocking was above reproach all season, and it's not like he played a perfect game at center - there were a couple shotgun snaps where if Josh were Murray-size instead of 6'5" and athletic as hell, it woulda been Trouble City.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Estro said: He was on Matt Parrino's pod last night.....and I didn't think he sounded all that optimistic that he'll be back. Oh, shoot, I think I found it and it's like 97 minutes long... https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Bills-Talk-with-Matt-Parrino-p1314017/ Do you have any idea where in the podcast Feliciano shows up? If it's the right one, they're talking MMA and a bunch of other stuff that's not my bag
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: Yeah I got the feeling that he didn’t seem overly happy.. I wonder if they have even made him an offer as yet... they might just be sitting back at the moment as there looks like there are going to be a lot of G to choose from... OK, I found the podcast on Youtube where I could scan along and see when Jon showed up on Zoom. He was asked what FA is like and he said "it sucked". He talked about not knowing whether he's going to have to move his family or not and the uncertainty and how he hoped to know more in the next week (and then he corrected and said two weeks - league year starts March 17th so week-and-a-half. He repeated the comment about "no sacks", said he didn't have any QB hits against him Asked about Josh. Said he loves him. Said he'd "die for him", that's his guy. Said he's never seen a QB that will fight harder and do more to avoid a sack. I did gather the impression that the Bills might not have made him an offer yet. 2
purple haze Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 10 hours ago, Boxcar said: Yeah, if he's playing in front of, idk, Drew Brees or something, that number is more than 0. Josh is probably better than any other QB in the game outside maybe Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes when the pocket collapses. Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson avoid a hell of a lot of sacks too.
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