All_Pro_Bills Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, ALF said: That's why planning now to see if it is possible to stop China or would the cost be too high. WW 3 would be a cost too high of course. I'm thinking economic not military action by the world. Isolation , no foreign students to any other country or tourists. China surpassed the United States in annual gross crude oil imports in 2017, importing 8.4 million barrels per day (b/d) Together, five of China's leading crude petroleum suppliers (Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iraq, Angola plus Brazil) generate well over half (59.3%) of overall Chinese crude oil imports for 2019. China's top 10 crude petroleum providers supply approximately four-fifths (79.3%) of its imported crude oil If the world could shut down all imports to China ? If a hypothetical plan won't work then Taiwan is gone. Then scale that back to at least make it not business as usual. While a strategy of some economic or cultural isolation is an interesting perspective I think it necessary to look at things from the perspective of each of China's trading partners. What would compel them to get on board with such an approach? The 5 oil exporters for starters. Russia - 100% certainty they would have no interest in any actions taken against China in the oil market or for that matter anything that would support US strategic interests. What would the US offer in return? Cease to add NATO members in Eastern Europe? Removing sanctions? Withdraw objections to NordSteam2 gas pipeline to Germany? Saudi Arabia - A major US arms purchaser although the new US administration has indicated a desire to dial back those sales. With US fracking all but eliminating the US market they sought markets elsewhere. China was an obvious buyer. The Saudi's are strategic masters playing a balancing game with the US., Russia, and China and other factions and interests in the region. What would the US offer in return for cutting back on China bound exports? I don't know and would they want to upset or introduce another variable into their balancing act? Iraq - This to me is a big kick in the face of the US. US blood and treasure eliminated Saddam and China appears to be a top beneficiary with Iran taking the lead spot there. Maybe the US offers to a firm schedule of force draw down to leave the country in return for more cooperation? Angola - Although its given little exposure China has made significant economic and cultural inroads in Africa. Its almost a secret it seems. With major migration of population into Africa which some might characterize as "economic colonization". The thrust of which is to secure access to nature resources. But with a lot of direct investment in places like Angola it seems doubtful they'd be willing or perhaps able to align with US interests. Brazil - As part of the BRICS "alliance" its hard to see them pulling the plug on a source of trade. Along with this their government is a rolling dumpster fire. My perspective is none of this happened by accident or overnight. China's been playing the "long game" for decades. And kind of boxed the US into a corner. One step at a time in a methodical manner. All that's happened recently is the realization of it all. To get out of that corner requires thinking and planning on that same strategic level. But is it too late for that regarding the sovereignty and independence of Taiwan? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) No problem... if any of those disenfranchised Hong Kong voters feel they need to vote somewhere, they can just vote in our next election. worst case they need to read the obituaries first... Thanks HR1! Edited March 12, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: My perspective is none of this happened by accident or overnight. China's been playing the "long game" for decades. And kind of boxed the US into a corner. One step at a time in a methodical manner. All that's happened recently is the realization of it all. To get out of that corner requires thinking and planning on that same strategic level. But is it too late for that regarding the sovereignty and independence of Taiwan? We helped make China a economic and military superpower . They are ruthless , no morals , no decency. The US and the world are dependent on there cheap exports. I don't see any way to stop them at this point without doing grave injury to our own economy. They are patient and methodical so I don't see beyond them taking Hong Kong . They will be content to keep growing stronger before taking Taiwan in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, ALF said: We helped make China a economic and military superpower . They are ruthless , no morals , no decency. The US and the world are dependent on there cheap exports. I don't see any way to stop them at this point without doing grave injury to our own economy. They are patient and methodical so I don't see beyond them taking Hong Kong . They will be content to keep growing stronger before taking Taiwan in the future. I prefer the interdependence. Their military might is superior or will be shortly and we’re frankly... soft like that Chinese made charmin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I prefer the interdependence. Their military might is superior or will be shortly and we’re frankly... soft like that Chinese made charmin. One alternative is mutual assured destruction as the end of the world , so interdependence it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 6 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm not sure why the US would object to anything China is doing as their government seems to be the operating model our government aspires to. Creating a surveillance and thought control state through the melding of government force and coercion with technology oligarchs and the corporations they control. But aside from that China is simply not afraid of the US anymore. What are "we" going to do? Impose sanctions? I'm sure Pres Xi isn't spending many sleepless nights worried about that prospect. Diplomatically our state department's approach to international affairs is consistent with the "gun boat" policies of past eras. Look at the number of places where force is either being directly applied or threatened. The problem is the world has changed and while I question China's motives as less than transparent and genuine their more "cooperative" economic development approach to affairs is leading to a lot of arrangements around the world that are slowly squeezing the US out of a lot of places. I always go back in my mind to the fact that China needs to deal with over a billion people. Feed, house, employ them. All we want or get from them are cheap consumer goods. The US is not alone or isolated in their desire to curb China's expansion. And there are many belt and road countries who resent their decision to do business with China. The worse China acts, the more isolated they will make themselves. How many countries protested when the prior administration took a harder stance against China? Targeting or threatening to target their ability to procure raw materials and food should be step #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Bill Maher sounds alarm on China's dominance over US: 'They're eating our lunch' https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/bill-maher-sounds-alarm-on-chinas-dominance-over-us-theyre-eating-our-lunch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 hours ago, ALF said: Bill Maher sounds alarm on China's dominance over US: 'They're eating our lunch' https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/bill-maher-sounds-alarm-on-chinas-dominance-over-us-theyre-eating-our-lunch This is a great line: "Half the country is having a never-ending woke competition deciding whether Mr. Potato Head has a d--- and the other half believes we have to stop the lizard people because they're eating babies." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Guatemalan families bury loved ones killed near US-Mexico border Guatemala’s president is calling for justice after 19 charred bodies were found near US-Mexico border in January. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/13/guatemalan-families-bury-loved-ones-killed-near-us-mexico-border I believe in a secure border and legal immigration as possible. These poor people are refugees from hurricanes , violence and extreme poverty. The UN should be setting up refugee camps in their countries to care for and protect them. There has to be a more humane way to help these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 5 hours ago, ALF said: Guatemalan families bury loved ones killed near US-Mexico border Guatemala’s president is calling for justice after 19 charred bodies were found near US-Mexico border in January. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/13/guatemalan-families-bury-loved-ones-killed-near-us-mexico-border I believe in a secure border and legal immigration as possible. These poor people are refugees from hurricanes , violence and extreme poverty. The UN should be setting up refugee camps in their countries to care for and protect them. There has to be a more humane way to help these people. Good example of why it is our interest to help the other nations of the Americas foster sound democratic governments that are prosperous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 39 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Good example of why it is our interest to help the other nations of the Americas foster sound democratic governments that are prosperous. Excellent Tibs! Why hasn’t anyone else thought of that? (sarcasm) Let’s send them money. Oh wait, we already do that. Let’s send them our US jobs. Oh wait, we already do that? Let’s buy their drugs? Oh wait, we already do that. Let’s open up our borders to people who find themselves on the outside of the rampant corruption going on in those countries. Oh wait, we already do that too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 “GAME CHANGER:” NGOs criticize Biden as he flies illegal migrants across Texas, dumps them in El Paso. So, CBP is flying them across Texas to ease the overcrowding at the border, only to transport them back to Mexico, far away from where they entered. How is that a better idea than immediate expulsion from the point at which they entered the U.S.? Biden’s approach is not only more costly but it puts the migrants at risk. Once back in Mexico, they are prey for cartels and human traffickers. Biden and his administration want to promote the idea that their ideas are more humane than those of the Trump administration, which are described as “draconian”, yet that’s hard to understand when illegal migrants are moved around in a puzzling way. Organizations in El Paso, who were alerted to prepare for incoming migrants, are surprised. As an editorial in Spectator USA observes, “If his party believes that mere poverty creates a valid asylum claim, that real borders are morally illegitimate, that minors must be admitted immediately, that families must never be separated and that ICE must be defanged or abolished, what can Biden do besides let everybody in? President Biden will have to find the courage to resist his own party’s new ideology, or the border crisis of his first months could turn into the defining problem of his entire presidency.” Of course, it’s a crisis Joe’s handlers don’t want to go to waste. Jared Bernstein, member of Biden’s Council of Economic Advisors: “One thing we learned in the 1990s was that a surefire way to reconnect the fortunes of working people at all skill levels, immigrant and native-born alike, to the growing economy is to let the job market tighten up. A tight job market pressures employers to boost wage offers to get and keep the workers they need. One equally surefire way to sort-circuit this useful dynamic is to turn on the immigrant spigot every time some group’s wages go up.” And it’s useful for socialist engineering as well: Former Trump administration senior adviser Stephen Miller: Biden’s Immigration Plan Would “Erase America’s Nationhood.” https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2021/03/13/us-flies-newly-arrived-migrants-across-texas-only-to-immediately-expel-them-in-el-paso/ https://spectator.us/topic/border-crisis-could-define-biden-presidency/ https://hotair.com/archives/karen-townsend/2021/03/14/game-changer-ngos-criticize-biden-flies-illegal-migrants-across-texas-dumps-el-paso/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=game-changer-ngos-criticize-biden-flies-illegal-migrants-across-texas-dumps-el- paso&utm_content=0&utm_campaign=PostPromoterPro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 Cooperating with allies for domestic policy reasons: Quote Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is working with her counterparts around the world to forge an agreement over a global minimum tax on multinational corporations, as the White House looks for revenue to help pay for President Biden’s domestic agenda. The effort, which would involve a fraught and challenging global negotiation of tax laws, could prove one of Yellen’s biggest policy legacies if it succeeds. It could also prove central to Biden’s presidency. The $1.9 trillion stimulus signed into law last week was financed completely by additional federal borrowing. But the administration is expected to raise taxes at least partially to pay for its other big-ticket spending priorities, such as the massive infrastructure and jobs package being discussed by White House officials and congressional Democrats. A key source of new revenue probably will be corporate taxes, which President Donald Trump sharply cut in 2017. Although he has not proposed entirely reversing Trump’s cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, Biden has said he would aim to raise potentially hundreds of billions more in revenue from big businesses. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/03/15/yellen-pushes-global-minimum-tax-white-house-eyes-new-spending-plan/ 23 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Excellent Tibs! Why hasn’t anyone else thought of that? (sarcasm) Let’s send them money. Oh wait, we already do that. Let’s send them our US jobs. Oh wait, we already do that? Let’s buy their drugs? Oh wait, we already do that. Let’s open up our borders to people who find themselves on the outside of the rampant corruption going on in those countries. Oh wait, we already do that too. If you are against it, it might be a good idea. That's what's so cool about the right, they don't need to be listened to because they have nothing constructive to say. Just whinny azz little sh it butts. That's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: If you are against it, it might be a good idea. That's what's so cool about the right, they don't need to be listened to because they have nothing constructive to say. Just whinny azz little sh it butts. That's it Reading comprehension problems as always Tibs. Nobody’s against assisting other countries in getting on their feet. American taxpayers have been doing it for years. But...Securing our borders isn’t a luxury! It’s a necessity. Once it’s secure you can hand out even more candy to the rest of the world. What do democrats call it again? Oh yeah...an investment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just now, SoCal Deek said: Reading comprehension problems as always Tibs. Nobody’s against assisting other countries in getting on their feet. American taxpayers have been doing it for years. But...Securing our borders isn’t a luxury! It’s a necessity. Once it’s secure you can hand out even more candy to the rest of the world. What do democrats call it again? Oh yeah...an investment! Shoring up other countries econpmy and government does help at the border. Heck, it could solve the problem. You guys have no interest in solving the problem, the fear of dark skinned people trying to get into our country is what motivates GOP-Trump voters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Shoring up other countries econpmy and government does help at the border. Heck, it could solve the problem. You guys have no interest in solving the problem, the fear of dark skinned people trying to get into our country is what motivates GOP-Trump voters Cut the racist crap. It’s really lazy. You have no idea what color my skin is. Let’s walk and chew gum. It doesn’t have to be one or the other...let’s help foreign countries AND secure our borders. What a novel idea. But you know it’s not about securing borders at all, is it? It’s about securing elections. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Cut the racist crap. It’s really lazy. You have no idea what color my skin is. Let’s walk and chew gum. It doesn’t have to be one or the other...let’s help foreign countries AND secure our borders. What a novel idea. But you know it’s not about securing borders at all, is it? It’s about securing elections. If you want to find out how empty the rhetoric about helping other is, ask what they are actually doing to put their time and/or money where there mouth is. I guarantee you have done more yourself in all fronts... even if it’s just paying your taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: If you want to find out how empty the rhetoric about helping other is, ask what they are actually doing to put their time and/or money where there mouth is. I guarantee you have done more yourself in all fronts... even if it’s just paying your taxes. I guarantee I’ve paid more to fund this insanity than Tibs ever will. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Tibs was right. Biden's Foreign Policy Already GettING Results 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 41 minutes ago, B-Man said: Tibs was right. Biden's Foreign Policy Already GettING Results It’s hilarious hearing the Dems/MSM blame it on Trump. Then again, they are wearing “Trump let us in” t-shirts... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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